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Finally pulled the trigger on repowering my Montauk 17
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| egerrity |
Posted on 03/26/12 - 12:55 PM
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Yes, but mine has a thin piece of black starboard under it to cover old holes... the binnacle overhangs about 1/4 in on top and bottom.
Ill be putting more pics of same on my PPage.
Joe how do I get a project page?
Ed
1991 Montauk 17 - 2012 ETEC 90HP |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 03/26/12 - 1:06 PM
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When your project is all completed, send us the text part first so we can review it.
Once approved, we will then ask for the photos to be inserted into the text part of your project album.
Keep using your personal page until then...
You can upload 30 photos to your personal page as that is the limit in that section.
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| egerrity |
Posted on 03/26/12 - 1:10 PM
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Sounds good Joe.
Ed
1991 Montauk 17 - 2012 ETEC 90HP |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 03/27/12 - 7:12 AM
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Silentpardner wrote:
Recently on this board, I noticed that these same two guys instructed another small boat owner here to continue raising his engine and buying new props to the point that the poor guy was out of money and had his engine so high that there was no way he was ever going to get a prop that would stay in the water when he made even a slight turn!
I am very curious:
Who are "these same two guys" you refer to?
Who is the "other small boat owner"...?
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 03/27/12 - 7:27 AM
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Ed wrote:
Was it worth pissing the guy off??? I think u guys can all see the fine line we have to skate when it comes to this stuff.
Ed -- I find that question rather odd. Why are you worried about pissing the technician off? It's your motor and your money. He should be concerned about pissing you off!
If I am spending $9,000 for a new outboard motor, you sure as heck will find me trying to get the most out of it. And why not? Why on earth should the technician object the motor being mounted exactly where you ask it to be mounted? It is exactly the same effort on his part regardless of what set of bolt holes are used.
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 03/27/12 - 7:35 AM
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Silentpardner wrote:
You know, that guy installing your engine has to install it per Evinrude specs for the warranty also. Evinrude pays a LOT of people BIG bucks to set those specs for the engines fuel economy and reduced wear and tear on the parts. If there is ever a problem with the engine during the warranty period, the dealer will have to honor the warranty. If you go and start moving the engine around and re-prop it, you WILL have trouble getting the repairs under warranty. I gurantee this!
Would you please cite the "specs" that prohibit an Evinrude E-TEC 90 being mounted three holes up on the transom of a classic 16'-7" Whaler? Wait, let me answer that for you: You can not because there is no such prohibition. It is utter nonsense to suggest that there is.
Re-propping the motor voids the warranty? What on earth are you talking about? It is critically important that you DO re-prop the motor if the WOT engine speed does not fall within the manufacturer's specifications. How did point this even enter the discussion? We are talking about setting the bets motor mounting height of an Evinrude E-TEC 90 on a classic Montauk.
Since when does adjusting the motor mounting height void the warranty?
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 03/27/12 - 7:52 AM
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Ed wrote:
The top bolt has one more hole above it. The engine is in the 3rd hole. It seems very high to me. The cav plate is more than an inch above the bottom ... more like 2 in.
If I had pushed him to put it up to the highest setting I would have been paying to lower it.
Ok, so the motor is now "two holes up" using the third set of holes. The A/V plate is NOT 2 inches above the bottom of the hull. It ought to be and if you move it to the last set of holes it might be.
I am sure the boat will perform fine with the motor mounted where it is. But it will perform marginally better if it is raised that last 3/4".
You know, Evinrude provides those different bolt holes for a reason: So you can adjust the mounting height of the motor. That's the whole point of there being so many of them. With the motor being mounted where it is it will perform well enough so you may not be inclined to try it all the way up. The ONLY way to know if the highest mounting height is TOO HIGH is if you try it and see. Then you can lower it. But with the motor NOT all the way up, there is no way to tell if the highest mounting height is better unless you rely upon the experience of those who have already been through all of this before. And there have been many.
If the highest mounting height were too high, how on Earth have guys gotten away with bolting their Evinrude E-TEC 90s on the transoms of their classic 16'-7" Whalers? How is it that Len Simpson runs his new Evinrude E-TEC 90 on his Montauk with it at its highest mounting height without any trouble at all?
Can anybody cite even just one case of an Evinrude E-TEC 90 being mounted all the way up on the transom of a Montauk and the owner being dissatisfied and then lowering it back down to the third set of bolt holes? Come on, just one thread where we discuss that?
Anybody?
Bueller?
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| egerrity |
Posted on 03/27/12 - 9:15 AM
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Tom
Points all well taken...
Can you estimate the difference in the speed I will get by raising the motor 3/4? That may be my deciding factor if I will tell them to move it up.
PS.... I was very hesitant to even post a picture of the motor because I knew it was "wrong".....
Ed
1991 Montauk 17 - 2012 ETEC 90HP |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 03/27/12 - 2:01 PM
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Ed -- There is nothing "wrong" with having your motor where it is, it's just not optimal. I estimate you are going to give up about 1 MPH.
I belabor this point not because I feel it is critical for you to move your motor up; its already bolted on now, nor to berate Silentpardner for the bad information he has provided. I am belaboring this point because of all the other people reading this now, or in the future, who are researching the best way to install their new E-TEC 90 on their classic Whaler and I want them to get the correct information about what is possible and dispel as many myths as I can.
The whole point of Whaler Central is for us to share what we have learned about our boats and motors and help one another out.
One of the things I have learned in recent years, and I was slow to come to this realization, is that mounting a modern outboard motor on a Classic Whaler should NOT be done the same way that it was done 25 or 30 years ago. I've owned three Montauks with total of four outboard motors on them (not counting the kickers). All of these motors were mounted all the way down or only one hole up. All of them provided a lot of fun and performed very well with the propellers they had.
But that was long ago (except the last one) and propellers and motors have come a long way. Many of the very best outboard mechanics and dealers are guys who have sold and serviced outboards for decades; they have a lot of experience...but that is also part of the problem. They are used to doing things the way they always have. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard about dealers/mechanics insisting an outboard motor cannot be mounted high on the transom of a classic Boston Whaler. It is just ingrained on them to mount outboards like they did in 1985 and it DOES NOT NEED TO BE SO.
If you bolt an Evinrude E-TEC 90 all the way UP on the transom of a classic Montauk and trim the motor so the AV plate is parallel to the keel and measure up from a straightedge projected back from the keel, you will find the AV plate 2 to 2-1/4 inches above it. For anybody who thinks that is too high, how do you explain all the guys happily using jackplates on their Montauks where the AV plate is 3 or 4 inches up?
Of course, motor height and propeller selection go hand in hand. If you want to run an aluminum propeller designed in 1985 on you brand new E-TEC 90, you may indeed find that mounting it all the way up is too high.
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| egerrity |
Posted on 03/28/12 - 3:30 AM
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Tom
Thanks for the info.
Ed
1991 Montauk 17 - 2012 ETEC 90HP |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 03/28/12 - 7:02 AM
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Ed -- You're welcome.
I was just perusing BRP's Evinrude E-TEC Installation and Predelivery Manual, the installtion instructions for a new E-TEC. On the subject of motor mounting height, this is the bottom line (page 48):
"Test outboard and boat performance at different heights until the best performance is achieved."
So much for the silly "moving-your-outboard-up-and-down-voids-the-warranty" argument.
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| egerrity |
Posted on 03/29/12 - 3:03 AM
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Tom
I hope to be test running the boat soon. What speed and rpm do you think it should run. With the viper prop u recommended etc etc...
I am most interested in cruise speed at about 3500 rpm.
Thanks
Ed
1991 Montauk 17 - 2012 ETEC 90HP |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 03/29/12 - 7:25 AM
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At 3500 RPM you should be doing 30 MPH.
Top speed will be about 42 MPH.
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| egerrity |
Posted on 03/29/12 - 7:45 AM
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Tom
This will give me a a couple of good points of reference.
what rpm should I hit at top end?
Thanks again for all the great info.
Ed
1991 Montauk 17 - 2012 ETEC 90HP |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 03/29/12 - 7:47 AM
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The optimal WOT engine speed range for the E-TEC 90 is 5000-5200 RPM. That is where I expect you to be.
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| egerrity |
Posted on 04/06/12 - 4:14 AM
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Ok.....drum roll please! I went for the first test run yesterday. 50 degrees, low tide, 12 gallons of fuel, 2 heathy size men, one weighing 250 and the other probably closer to 300. Boat came up on plane with no problem, quickly we reached about 29mph at 3400rpm... From there we punched it down to the floor and I was amazed at the midrange power this engine has! Wow.. And how quiet it is at running speed....we both crouched down behind the console to become as aerodynamic as prosible... I closed my eyes and said a prayer to the whaler gods.... When I opened my eyes I saw the new gauges glistening in the late afternoon sun, wow, great thing I choose the Icon gauges in white...
Rpms maxed out at about 5100 at 41 mph... Trimmed out.....
I think I could have pushed the trim alittle higher.... A lot to get used to. Everything is very different. The shifting is very smooth and quiet even with the set prop...there's no sound as all. That is going to take some getting used to. No smoke.... Slight vibration when cold started, that smoothed right out. Also weird not to have to use a choke and throttle up when cold starting. Just turn the key and done.
Obviously I will have more info as I run it more.
Thanks to all.. More pictures to come...
Ed
1991 Montauk 17 - 2012 ETEC 90HP |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 04/06/12 - 8:02 AM
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Yep. Exactly what I predicted. Congratulations; you are going to enjoy that motor once you get used to it!
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| Bo Neato |
Posted on 04/06/12 - 11:30 AM
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I have to chuckle reading this thread. Both Tom and Joe have given me great advice on my engine, and Tom was spot on recommending a prop. But more than that, what I've noticed is that their comments aren't anecdotal. They both use real-time data to measure, quantify, analyze, deduce, and conclude. When they've disagree they've provided reference information, actual (and at times test condition) results, and background information to back up their opinion.
Now, I don't believe everybody is correct 100% of the time. And I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I think if you want to disagree with these two, and several other esteemed gentlemen on the forum, that you really need to back up your position with a little more than "war story" and "know this guy" claims.
Case in point:
Tom W Clark wrote:
Ed -- There is nothing "wrong" with having your motor where it is, it's just not optimal. I estimate you are going to give up about 1 MPH.
Tom W Clark wrote:
At 3500 RPM you should be doing 30 MPH.
Top speed will be about 42 MPH.
Tom W Clark wrote:
The optimal WOT engine speed range for the E-TEC 90 is 5000-5200 RPM. That is where I expect you to be.
egerrity wrote:
Ok.....drum roll please! I went for the first test run yesterday....
Rpms maxed out at about 5100 at 41 mph... Trimmed out......
Coincidence? Not really.
Egerrity, good luck with the new engine, it already looks like you made a great choice. And congratulations on doing your homework, having an informed install, and maximizing your dollar value in terms of performance. Looks like you nailed it.
Me? I couldn't pull the trigger and will be battling my 2-smoke SPL for another season, lol...
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 04/06/12 - 5:53 PM
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Thanks Bo Neato.
If Ed had tested the boat by himself without the extra 300 pounds, I am sure he would have hit 42 MPH and been cruising at 30 or more.
In fact, if Ed wanted top speed, he would raise that motor to the last set of bolt holes and swap out the Viper for a Stiletto Advantage. His top speed would probably rise to about 44 MPH.
Now I understand that the Viper came with the motor package and that Ed is not too worried about every last MPH. I mention it for anybody reading this who is contemplating or planning to install a new Evinrude E-TEC 90 on their classic 16'-7" Whaler.
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| kamie |
Posted on 04/06/12 - 8:20 PM
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Congrats, sounds like she is right on the money. The engine will loosen up once the break-in period is finished. I hope you had it set to xd100 oil, if not once you finish the break-in, you should have the dealer reset it.
The only thing i can say is make sure you run her hard above 4000 RPM's for 30 minutes or more, especially if you do a lot of cruising, your engine will be happier.
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