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prop'in a 22 Outrage
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| duf |
Posted on 07/16/07 - 4:25 PM
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Well, after visiting the most highly recommended Evinrude Marine in my neighborhood ( is actually 30 to 40 miles away), i'm taking my new/old 22 Outrage to the shop, week after this for 3 upgrades (software) that are lacking, and am going to purchase a new stainless prop. I have an aluminum one on it now, with another spare aluminum and its time to put a decent prop on it. My motor is a 2006 E-Tic 225 horse and i'm wondering if any members have a similar motor on a simular boat and can tell me what size seems to be working. I'm presently turning a 14 1/2 by 19 prop and turning trimed out 5400 RPM's. The recommended RPM range is 4500 - 5800 operating and optimum is 5500 - 5600. Friends insist, that once i go to a stainless steel prop, my number and performance will change dramatically, so i'm definately upgrading. Just would appreciate a prop size and pitch to start with.
For those of you waiting for the performance results on a E-Tic 225 hooked to a 22 outrage, hang in there as i'm catching up on the updates, going to tune in a stainless prop, and just found my Foruno website to download my GPS and thus convert Knots to MPH. In the meantime, trust me, it hauls butt. 
Salute
Duf
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 07/16/07 - 4:57 PM
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Duf,
1. That 14 1/2 x 19 pitch prop sounds a little small for that 225hp motor.. However, your RPM's sound about right. I would not go with anything smaller at this time.
2. How high is your engine mounted.... ??
All the way down?
1st hole up? 2nd hole up?
At this time I can't tell you whether your engine is too low or not...
My engine was mounted in the 2nd hole up on my Outrage 22' Cuddy which seemed just right for that boat.
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 07/16/07 - 6:12 PM
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Duf,
To convert knots to MPG just multiply by 1.15
Do you have the 225 or the 225 HO?
I propped Andy Gere's Outrage 22 which has an E-Tec 200 and he found the 14" x 17" pitch Mercury Offshore (VenSura) four blade to be superb. I would expect you would need the 19" version for your boat.
Other good props to try would be a Stiletto Advantage II in the 14-1/4" x 19" size. This prop would be fast.
I think you should definitely try the 15-1/4" x 19" Mercury Mirage Plus as well. It is just a great all round prop that is also fast.
I can make more definite recommendations about pitch if you could tell me what speed you see now at 5400 RPM.
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| duf |
Posted on 07/16/07 - 8:24 PM
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Joe, the motor doesn't have strict holes, but is more or less semi slotted. Best i can do is this photo, and if that's not clear enough, shoot a new one tomorrow when the suns up, and i can get my ladder and climb off the back and give it a close look.
Tom, will have you some more info when i take her out this weekend. I converted the knots to MPH on my GPS today, but it looks like using the coversion table you provided i'm pushing right at 45 MPH.
duf
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| duf |
Posted on 07/16/07 - 8:25 PM
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Dang it, still working on these attachments!
duf attached the following image:
[85.21Kb]
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| joninnj |
Posted on 07/17/07 - 4:29 AM
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Hi Duf,
I have played with many props and different boats over the years. Really depends on what your goals are. I prefer to go to top end of the RPM range to get the best all around performance. If you think that going to a stainless will allow for more RPMs, may be true if you run your engine at a higher hole setting on the transom and if you like to trim out to the max. The stainless will hold/bite the water better and allow operation closer to the surface. If you just going to compare your aluminum 19 with a stainless 19 you may not see the results you are expecting. Aluminum props flex much more than Stainless. You may see more RPM from aluminum... If possible test out the prop first, it is possible you may need to drop one size with a stainless...
On my prior boat 20 ft HydroStream (designed for a very different type of operation) I started out with a 21 inch aluminum. Got 5200 RPM max, would cavitate on turns and could not trim out much. I added a jack plate and setback. Lifted the engine about 2.5 inches above the transom, and ran with a 23inch laser. I was able to get 5800 RPM with this setup and still maintain power and acceleration for deep water slalom starts and a full load of people.
Your application may not directly apply here, the boats are completely different but general idea will apply to a degree.
I am fooling with props now with my smaller whaler, 17 inch stainless exceeds RPM. 19 inch stainless a bit below the max RPM... So now maybe a jack plate or modify a prop...
BTW, very nice boat. Good luck
Edited by joninnj on 07/17/07 - 5:46 AM
Jon in NJ
Many other boats and outboards in my boating history
The Whaler is the one I like the best!!! |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 07/17/07 - 7:30 AM
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Duf,
If your boat is hitting 45 MPH with the E-Tec 225 spinning 5400 RPM then your 19" propeller is slipping about 14 percent which is a little greater than we usually see but not necessarily bad. The prop slip is the result of the aluminum propeller and its smaller diameter.
Your motor is mounted two holes up now and that is perfect. Leave it there.
Yup, try a 14-1/4" x 17" Stiletto Advantage II (performs like 19 inch) or a 14-1/2" x 19" Mercury Laser II for best top speed.
For maximum fuel economy at cruise speed try the 15-1/4" x 17" Mercury Mirage Plus.
For a good grip and a balance of the above attributes, try the 14" x 19" VenSura (Offshore) or the 14-5/8" x 17" Mercury Revolution 4.
This past weekend I propped a friend's 20' Grady White with a Mercury 225. He had been running a crappy OE aluminum three blade which he claimed only hit 39-40 MPH (which I actually doubt; probably more like 45 MPH). We put a 17" Rev 4 on it and took a for a test run. Both directions, solid 49 MPH. His motor is all the way down on the transom. I have advised him to raise it one hole and retest. Should be good for 50 -51 MPH! He could not believe the difference, not only in speed but in how the boat handled.
Edited by Tom W Clark on 07/17/07 - 7:35 AM |
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| duf |
Posted on 07/17/07 - 6:10 PM
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here i go again with issues with attachments. I'm not getting the option to add the photo's i took of the E-tic and its location, which is the third hole down from the top, not the second and the lower portion of the motor is slotted. Pictures to be included as soon as i figure out the attachment option!
Tom, my E-Tic is not the HO option.
joninnj, thanks for the info and the approval and good luck wishes of the purchase. Hopefully with the coming months will be a classic addition to Whalers Central and a family thing i can pass down to my nephews. Already have a classic 83 CJ7 they all want!!!!
Duf
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| duf |
Posted on 07/19/07 - 6:22 PM
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Nice to know i wasn't losing it when i couldn't attach an attachment!!
Tom, here's a photo and it obviously shows i'm in the third hole down, however, i'm having no cavation issues at all. By your previous e-mails your thoughts were to be in the 2nd hole. So, without cavation, can i stay where i'm at, or, when i take Raggedy to the dealer next week should i move up a notch?
Duf
duf attached the following image:
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Edited by duf on 07/19/07 - 6:23 PM |
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| kamie |
Posted on 07/19/07 - 6:30 PM
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Duf,
of equal importance to which hole the engine is mounted in is when the engine is tilted down where is the cavitation plate? Is it equal with the bottom of the hull, above or below?
The E-Tec's don't seem to have the range of adjustment that my old Merc did. Both my Merc and my E-Tec are mounted in the third hole, the difference is with the Merc, I had two more holes to adjust with, on the E-Tec, three is all I get.
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 07/19/07 - 10:05 PM
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Duf,
Like I said, your motor is two holes up, i.e., you are using the third set of holes. That is good. Leave it there.
The E-Tec's have four possible mounting positions with any given set of holes through the transom:
All the way down on the transom (top set of holes on the motor)
One hole up (the second set of holes is used)
Two holes up (the third set of holes is used)
Three holes up (the fourth set of holes is used)
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| duf |
Posted on 07/20/07 - 12:28 PM
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Ok, here's the latest. (did i mention i'm really glad i live in S Texas and the waters in the 80's??) Dropped the motor and trimed until the cav plate was on the same plane as the keel of Raggedy. I would guesstamate that its about an inch to an inch and 1/4 above the keel. I'm experencing absolutely no cavatation and my last time out to my best ability figured I was on plane in 2.5 secs.
Tom, taking the boat out sunday with an experienced boating/Semi Pro fishing buddy of mine who has a boat that runs in the 70's. He's going to help me with taking RA out, triming her correctly and giving you the 5400 RPM speed data you asked for.
BTW, i haven't done any of the bio thing as yet, (i almost hate to say this) but, most of my life i have been a sailing boat owner racing my own personnal boats and crewing on the big guys up to 55'. However, here in Corpus, there just isn't the kind of water i had in Pensacola to do wide open sailing and frankly am looking for a more relaxed lifestyle with a beautiful BW in the boat lift and more and more time to learn how to work on Teak, basic power boating and improving the overall looks of a very nice boat that needs some TLC. I did have a Skeeter Baypro briefly, but i bought it new, didn't do anything to it but mess around the canal, and frankly was bored to tears.
Ok, now i explained my ignorance in basic boat tuning and other boating 101 courses, so as always, thanks for the input and assistance!
Duf
duf attached the following image:
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 07/20/07 - 2:00 PM
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Duf,
No, you never mentioned the water was 80ยบ.......
Rub it in....
Your engine looks at the right height and if you are not cavitating or putting out too much spray, then it looks good to me...
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 07/24/07 - 7:15 AM
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Duf,
The above photo surprises me. That is the absolute lowest your motor should be and if you use a decent stainless steel propeller you can definitely go up to the last hole. As it is now, the AV plate is still going to be dragging in the water a little bit.
Historically, Mercury always had their AV plates set higher than the OMC motors. I had assumed that by now BRP would have caught up with the idea that a motor (with a modern prop) will perform better raised higher. I guess they are still using the old motor height ideas. Too bad, they should really include more mounting holes to allow higher mounting heights without having to use a jack plate.
Edited by Tom W Clark on 07/24/07 - 7:16 AM |
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| duf |
Posted on 07/25/07 - 6:06 PM
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Well, my buddy and I finally made it out today amid many storms (we've been a regular on weather channel lately with all the storms, rain and lightning) however, we made it out to the intercostal and ran Raggedy for all she was worth. For those of you that asked for performance data, let me tell you that my bud thought I was dead wrong when I told him I calculated it out at 45 MPH. He thought no way I would go that fast with that heavy a boat and the 225 E-Tic. However, this evening he trimmed RA out at 48 MPH at 5400 RPM's and then took her past the porposing (nice straight and level) to 5600 and 52 MPH by trimming on up. However, we still didn't throw a roster tail worth a hoot. He is now a believer and insists there is alot more there because of the instant holeshot, and so much torque at the higher end. I think I ruined him with his 225 Merc Optimax................
Duf
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 07/25/07 - 6:14 PM
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Duf,
If you are not getting a rooster tail off of your cavitation plate, then I don't think I would go any higher.
With a speed of 52 mph, how much faster do you want to go?
I can take that Raggedy old thing off of your hands if you want a faster boat.... 
Do you deliver?
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| joninnj |
Posted on 07/25/07 - 7:35 PM
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Hey duf,
52 mph is dam fast for that kind of boat. I think you are now fine tuned for best performance . Just for the record, when you begin to throw a tail you also will begin to loose speed. Throwing water into the air will not help you go faster just looks cool. It like throwing thrust into the air... The hydro's and racing boats that you see that do this use special props, nose cones, low water pickups and the literality run on the surface of the water with almost no wetted surface beneath them.
Don't feel bad, I can't mine to do a tail either....
Edited by joninnj on 07/25/07 - 7:43 PM
Jon in NJ
Many other boats and outboards in my boating history
The Whaler is the one I like the best!!! |
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| duf |
Posted on 07/25/07 - 8:34 PM
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LOL Joe, if i ever want to give Raggedy a new home, trust me, you will get the first call. I have lots of work to do to make her what she should be, a stately Lady. Ok, so no roster tail is a good thing, i'll buy that as its easily understood, so now the big question, for the best performance with a stainless prop, what do i go to. And yes, 52 MPH is plenty fast, but i'll take 55 with the same GPH consumption!
Duf
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| duf |
Posted on 07/27/07 - 1:45 PM
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Well, I'm certainly glad I was upfront in saying I was totally ignorant with boats that had a motor attached to it (and we ain't talking no 15 HP kicker, or diesel motor) . I took RA to the motor doctor today to have her software upgrades, upgraded? So I'm talking to the Evinrude doc and telling him how I wanted to upgrade to a stainless prop, and that I was leaning to a 14.5 X 21 pitch prop. He checked out my rig and said to me. I can set you up, but what you going to do with the prop you have? I replied, I will probably keep it as a spare, since its an aluminum and does ok on the boat. He replied, well, if you want to sell it, let me know because its an SST (T is for Teflon coated) 19 pitch, re-pitched to a 21. See right here, and continued my education by showing me a stamp on the hub? of the prop. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, after all the conversation about what to do about my prop, the real (and embarrassing answer) is, I already have a stainless prop, the boats tuned perfectly, and Joe, the answer to your question on how fast do I want to go is.................52 MPH. As always, again I want to thank all you folks for your input! Hopefully soon you will see Duf's pointers on re-doing teak as I'm taking Jeff's along with alot of other input to place on the Central web the results of re-doing teak about a half a dozen different ways! God, did I mention I hate wiring???
Salute
Duf
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 07/27/07 - 3:52 PM
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Duf,
I was going to ask you what prop you used for the testing because that did not look like an aluminum prop in the photo above, in fact it looked like an SST to me.
Yes, 21" pitch sounds about right but you can do better than a re-pitched SST if you want to. What do you want out of the boat? More speed? Better acceleration? Better grip? There are many, many options. You might enjoy playing around with it a bit.
Edited by Tom W Clark on 07/27/07 - 3:53 PM |
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