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I have posted several times about putting twin 70's on my 18' Whaler Outrage and do appreciate the response. The Marine rebuilder I was working with was rebuilding both motors. I called him today to make final arrangements and found they are 1994 60's not 70's. Both are Johnsons. Shocked and disappointed; to say the least. He said from 89-01 the cubic inches were the same with little difference except in Carburators. It would make very little difference in the overall performance. WHAT do you think; and what you advise. I had previously told him I wanted 13 !/4 X 19 props and we had that worked out. If you know of anyone changing over to single engine from twins, I might be interested. Merry Christmas to all !!!!!

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I wouldn't be concerned with the loss of 20hp over what you had anticipated. Top speed should only drop by 2-3 mph and very little other change having 120 versus 140.

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I would be concerned since the minimum to plane the 18 is 75HP. There is no way you will plane the boat on a single 60HP and you are limping home on what amounts to a kicker, abet a really large one. I would actually be concerned with putting anything less than a pair of 75HP on the 18 but then I prefer to have max HP or better.

I assume your going with twins because you boat off the coast and want twins for safey reasons? If not then maybe going home slow if one engine dies is not an issue

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There are many people with twin 70 hp motors on Outrage 18's of which I was one.
A single 70 hp will plane the boat satisfactorily. I am not sure about a 60 hp.

Here is an article I wrote on the performance of twin 70's on one of my prior Outrage 18's.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=35

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My Outrage 18, t-top, plenty of fuel, too much beer on ice and 4 adults planes fine on 50hp. With just me aboard and full fuel will run about 28 mph. Several Outrages with twin 70s have been known to easily plane on one motor. Can't say it will plane on one motor but doubt loosing just 10 hp over a 70 hp would prevent it. There are few situation having the maximum rated hp is of any benefit or used other than to be able to get a better hole shot or additional speed once on plane. I understand some people have very good reasons to go with maximum power but the majority of times it's just what happens to be on the boat when purchased.

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Bill, you have to post some pics.

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How could the guy rebuilding the motors not know from the beginning that they were 60's. Is he jerking you around? Are motors something he's trying to turn over for a profit? If you haven't paid for these yet, I'd pass on them. Sorry, that's just how I feel. I can't imagine an 18 being able to plane on a 50hp. I call bull. Sorry, don't believe it at all.

I have an 18 Outrage with twin 70's and would not want less power.

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I do appreciate your observation; and I agree. I have been giving this some thought for several yeears. I first came in contact with this man on E-Bay. His record is good and we live about 150 miles from each other. Three or four months ago he had a 70 hp and I got his number and we talked. Three weeks ago I called him again and had a man ready to buy my motor, which I have sold. I took notes on what he was going to sell me and the year model. No money has passed hands. Today I told him I was going to be in his area Thursday to draw up an agreement and that's when the 60's came into the conversation. Again, I thank you and I am going to pass but keep looking.
If you would, post what the top speed is with your twins and what props you are running.

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I'm running Yamaha 13.25x17 and I need to go to 13.25x19 to bring my redline where it should be. I'm at 38 or so mph. I plan on getting new props in Spring. Motors are one hole up. I can't really plane on one motor. I think with the new props I will be able to.

Was that rebuild guy in PA? There's a place that rebuilds that has a very bad reputation.

If your transom doesn't have holes for twins, then I'd stick with a single. To each his own.

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Dan which guy are speaking of in PA?

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I think it's called Blackbird Industries.

I can't stand people who lie or withhold critical information regarding the stuff they sell. I know of one person, who used to post here who was like that and it really made me mad. The guy had plenty of money, not that that should affect honesty, but he really had no need to be dishonest. Sometimes you gotta take a loss on something like a man. What was the question? :)

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The man I was dealing with is in Savannah, Ga. He goes around and buys trade in's. From what I can see he has sold a number of them on EBay. He is in the past. Again, THANKS and have a Merry Christmas.

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Dan, I think that is the same guy as 1Outboard on ebay? If it is, I spoke with the guy one time. He seemed ok on the phone. I have not had any bad interaction with him. Did you have a bad experience with him?

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I'm pretty sure that is the same guy with Blackbird...If you look at his feedback on EBAY it mainly shows feedback from people he has bought from and not ones that he sold to.....I personally had a bad experience with him........stay away......far away! PM me if you want details......

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Harley, I've read bad things about that guy. I don't have personal experience and never will.

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I have a pair of twin 91 Yamaha 70's on my 18' Outrage. I can plane off one engine, but it has to be a lower pitched prop. I run 17" Stiletto's and cannot plane off of one engine. I keep a spare prop on board w/ a lower pitch in case one engine goes out.

I would seriously look into Yamahas new 70hp 4s, if your really want twins. They are a little bit heavier, I think 260lbs each, but the boat should handle the weight fine.

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You heard right! Don't walk, run from him as fast as you can!

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Thanks for the heads up on this guy Tom and Dan.

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Sorry if I am highjacking this thread, what happend to INTODEEP? Didnt he have an 18 with twins?bought is sight unseen?? We was gung hooo on changing motors ect ect? I think he was from Long Island? I am keeping my eye open for an 18 OR with twins. Was just interested to see.
Thanks

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Didn't he sell the twins off the boat and put a Honda 130 on?

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Yes he did. Then he sold his 18 and got about 14.5K -- which I found very surprising. I'd be curious to know how the guy that bought his 70's did. One 70 was blown, then he got a third for 1K, and sold all 3 plus binnacle, control cables, older style analog gauges, etc. to someone for about 3.8K without shipping. I think the 2 original motors had over 800 hours, but I could be wrong. The hull had bottom repairs on keel, one area I was told leaked water prior to patching. The tank had not been replaced. The trailer had some issues.

Eggerity, I have a 1990 with twin 70's -- all in 9 condition. This configuration is very hard to find, especially in good condition. My motors have 350 or so hours.

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Dan, Thanks for the response. Now I remember seeing pics of that boat when he took possession of it. I realize that it will be hard to find an 18 with twins, but its worth the wait. Dan, you certainly got rewarded for your patients. After seeing the pictures of your NYC run and how nice your boat is I decided to stepup the search. I have been scanning Craigslist. Does anyone have any other suggestions, or know of a boat? It seems like having twins on that boat would really be a novelity, not to mention the safety and head turning factor. With regards to maneuvering, will it turn in its own space when split shifted? I would imagine that might be difficult with the engines being so close together. Thanks All!!

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Egerrity, try this site http://www.crazedlist.org/.

I think the first priority is to find a good clean 18 at a reasonable price. Twins are cool, but not necessary.

Yes, the boat will pretty much turn in its own space when split shifted. The motors are close together, but not that close. I do like the way two motors push my boat. Also if you have people on the boat you can use the trim/tilt to balance the weight.

Twins are loud. The new Yamaha 70 coming out looks like the dream motors for someone with twins. Similar weight.

I missed out on an 18 with a 150 OX66 Yamaha a mile from my house prior to getting my boat. That was a nice boat! And that's quite an engine. The guy selling the boat wouldn't take my money because he had promised some dude he'd never met he's hold the boat for him. The dude was in his 70's and passed on it, and was never serious. I argued I called his first, and he responded that because my cellphone had a 917 area code he thought I was far away and didn't get back to me. Very frustrating. Then I saw the guy who bought the boat in my local harbor, and he had a drop-dead gorgeous girlfriend. All I could do was laugh. Life's funny.

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Egerrity, I to had been looking for an 18' outrage with twins for some time. One member on this site has the cleanest one I have ever seen but he is not selling. It might be easier to find a hull without power and set it up your way than find a boat with twins.

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I think the lower hp motors not offering a counter-rotating option hurts the performance...You others w/ twins on an 18, are you using hydraulic steering or NFB systems? I have the original dual cable system and no matter where I adjust the trip fins on the motors, there is always some torque steer in some level of the trim range. Pain in the ass.

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As you know I don't have twins, yet; but the dealers I have contacted looking for motors said I would experience the samething you have posted unless I put hydraulic on.

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I just purchased the seastar system for my boat. I'm waiting till I lift the deck up to replace the tank to install. Hopefully I will have the boat up and running for the next whaler run. I will let you guys know my opinion on hydraulic steering.

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Regarding steering on a twin engine 18 Outrage, after three years I got rid of the Teleflex twin cable setup that came from the factory on mine. I installed the Sea Star I with Side mount cylinder mounted between the engines, and it was a HUGE improvment. No steering torque at all. JimH wrote a nice article on the installation for CW, featuring my boat, with detailed information on the mechanics of the steering setup.

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/refe...acket.html

Here is a photo of the steering with newly installed Merc 90's.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v42...G_0454.jpg

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The only problem with a side mount steering cylinder mounted between twin engines likely means removing an engine to service/replace a cylinder. At least that has been my experience with twin Yamahas

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No. Using Boston Whaler's recommended engine centerline spacing of 29-3/4", the steering cylinder can be installed or removed without removing an engine. The ram that actuates the link arm has a pin which allows the extension ram to be detached.

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I am inclined to use the engine manufacturer mounting guidelines, which in the case of Yamaha is 26" OC. With larger V-6 engines, a cylinder swap is not possible. It seems using a wider mounting arrangement with smaller (narrower) engines provides the necessary clearance. In this case, adequate clearance may exist, but it is something that needs to be planned in the engine installation. On the 70 HP Yamaha's, the minimum centerline installation is 23 1/2", which would likely be too narrow for cylinder removal.

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The engine manufacturer mounting guidelines for mounting twins is provided as a minimum distance between motors to prevent interference. Whaler's recommendation will provide a bit of improvement in lateral stability and maneuverability.

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I have the original Teleflex. It can be a bit stiff, but works very well. If I let go of the wheel the boat stays on a very straight course. I don't know if there is more reliability with my set-up or hydraulic.

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Thanks for the info guys. looks like my montauk will go on the market after the new year to clear way for an 18. Or should I put the cart before the horse?
How much are those new 70 Yammys going for ?

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New retail on 2010 F70 is $8,745. I would expect that negotiated prices would be less. I have heard of some quoted prices less than $7,000.

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When installing twin outboards, any HP, on any boat, the engine manufacturer's recommendation do not apply, except perhaps as a MINIMUM dimension, and that Teleflex hydraulic steering cannot be used in either side mount or front mount less than 26" centerlines.

It is the design of the boat that determines spacing, based on engine shaft length and hull/transom bottom configuration.
And for an 18 Outrage, Boston Whaler installed a transom sticker indicating a spacing of 29-2/4".

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I'd think long and hard before putting a pair of new Yamaha F70s on the transom of an Outrage 18. You'll have over 520 lbs on the transom for 140 HP (Compare to about 410 lbs for a Suzuki 140 or 405 for a Evinrude E-TEC 130). The boat will be very stern heavy and it's quite likely that the rear splash well will always be full of water at rest even with the batteries moved to the console, robbing the console of some of the little storage space it has.

While the twin outboard factor is cool, unless you are going places that a tow service doesn't serve, there is little reason to have twin outboards on an 18 foot boat these days.

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Regarding weight, many people with single motors add a kicker motor. This would put the transom at the same weight as the twin Yams.

I have my batteries in the console. I cut a hole in the console floor so the batteries rest in boxes on the deck. This minimized the storage space. I like this set up very much.

Luckily my 70 Yams have about 360 hours and are in great shape. However, if I had the money and the need, those new Yam 70's providing their as good as Yam says....

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My Johnson 150 2S weighs 397 lbs and my kicker weighs 110 lbs for a total of 507 lbs. That is a lot of weight for a 150 hp (kicker does not add to the total HP). I looked at two new Yamaha 90 hp 2S engines for a total combined weight of 522 lbs. Almost the same weight but 180 hp total and a better power to weight ratio.

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All great info, and food for thought. I guess this will all depend on what boat surfaces. If a really clean 18OR with a single engine comes available it will be a no brainer. Even if the motor is tired, I would repower with a single. I dont think I would convert a single engine boat to twins. Then the question would be what to repower with. I have a soft spot in my heart for an ETEC... We will see....

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There's a guy named John in CT who has a very clean 18 with 115 Yam 4 stroke, some canvas, etc for 14K. That's the one I'd seriously consider.

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WhalerDan,

Is this the one you are referring too by JJS ?
http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...ad_id=8239

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looks nice... 115 HP?? Interesting. Anyone have any thoughts on that combination?

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A 115 won't break any speed records, but it should push the along around 30-35 mph. Boat looks real clean and that pulpit is the clincher. What do you think of it Joe?

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Yes Joe, that's the 18 I was referring to. I haven't seen her in person. The owner posted it at 14K on the other site. He wanted 20K for it last year, but has a new boat. If the gas tank checks out, and everything looks as good in the flesh as it does in photos, I think that would be a very nice boat. Good on gas. Should go faster than 35 I think. I had a 115 Merc on a 1999 Outrage that went faster. Plus the boat is in the LI area. I've read of other 18 owners who were happy with a 115.


I just read the seller's personal page -- he says his top speed has been 36mph.