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I just heard that my boat which was having a problem idling is on 5 cylinders and it's not looking good.

Options from the dealer - 1. rebuild $4200 - 2. new powerhead from Mercury $6200 3. New unit $11,00

I already spent $2k eariier on new valves and other unnecessary work (now unnecessary)

How much does a new motor cost 135 or a 150 cost if not quoted by the dealer.

Mercury vs Evinrude etc? (Evinrude promotions on TV etc)

I bought the boat in Sept 2008 - sucks to be me!

This engine seems at this point to be a bottomless pit/jinxed.

Can I run this as-is or am I asking for engine failure - err of course that's a dumb question.

Need advice from the experienced as usual.

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Mark,
I recommend a second opinion from a different dealer. That Opti is a good engine. I can't believe a rebuild is required at this point. I would think more on the lines of a bad injector, but I'm no mechanic by far, especially on the high tech engines.
Mike

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Where are you located? http://www.edsmarinesuperstore.com/mercury.htm

I had the similar pain of you, I bought my boat Memorial Day weekend, second trip out blew a cylinder with some bad fuel/weak cylinder liner wall. Had to repower and did significant research on pricing of motors. I found that Ed had great deals, but couldn't sell a loose engine. I did however find a dealer that would and for a similar price got one freighted up to Michigan.

PM if you want more details, but I would definately check out Eds Marine as they quote $9600 for a 135/150 (they are the same price so definately go 150)

Bill

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Mark,

It will really depend on whats wrong with the engine. But if it doesn't idle... how will you run it :o. By increasing the idle speed you can damage the lower unit (Big expense as well) . Has a basic compression test been done?

Did you buy this from the dealer who is servicing it now? If so you could not have gotten much use out of it if you purchased it in September 08. I assume it was used.

Also the OptiMAx is a 2 stroke DFI. What valves is the dealer referring to.... I would get a second opinion before doing anything to be honest. I know the season is upon us and kids want go out...:(

I had V6 merc (purchased new) for 20 years only had issues with the power trim...

Good luck

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That is some serious work to not get a second opinion. See what someone else tells you before you think on it much more.

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I'm not a big Mercury lover, but they make a good motor and I cannot believe that a motor that new needs as much overhauling and replacement as your dealer is suggesting, unless the motor was neglected in some way. I would get a second opinion without hesitation. If this is the same dealer that you bought it from he should be offering you some sort of break on repair or replacement. Did you buy this boat new? I noticed you stated that you've already spent $2000 on valves. Wasn't there some sort of warranty on it?

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Hey guys,

Thanks for all the very useful opinions on this.

I have run this as often since September often the lone guy on a freezing river on the Bay as often I could. The boat was from private sale (original owner) and I opted to use the dealer because my bother-in-law was a whaler nut and swore by them.

The initial idle issue has been diagnosed as sand and debris, which for some reason had found a home within the lower engine compartment. I didn't think too much about it thinking it would eventually wash out. The intakes took it into the air intake and hence the fees. I can look up the details and fill that grey area in for anyone interested. Apparently doing a compression test during this service wasn't standard neither was recording the hours or anything else useful.

Do I feel a little taken? Absolutely!

I will certainly get a second opinion. Does anyone have a good Mercury/Marine mechanic referral for the Northern VA, DC, MD area?

I have had a look at Ed's prices but I'm feeling gutted at the moment and the recession isn't helping business.

The motor runs fine as far as I could tell but the idle was inconsistent and might cut out after a minute sometimes three - a ghost in the machine. It wasn't a major issue just an annoyance. Approaching the dock; especially a busy one was sometimes nerve racking as I would most likely lose power.

"Wjsherid": you had to buy a whole new outboard? - Geeze - I sure would like if possible to go for a 4 stroke but is the a significant rebuild and weight problem?
What, if anything do I need to consider about a new motor.

Now I'm scared that if I have to do option #3 (new engine) that someone sells me something too heavy or charges too much for the install.

I don't suppose I can sell this unit for parts?

I'll look for a second opinion starting tomorrow.

Thanks everyone.

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Mark,

If the issue is inconsistent, then it is not the power head. Meaning is if it idles and stalls here and there it is something else. If the power head had issues that does not fade in and out...:( Might be more simple fuel delivery or injectors ect...

I would be happy to talk to you. PM me an I will send you my mobile number. Be happy to try to help you sort through this.

jon

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Jon has a good point. And keep in mind that if it is something like an injector problem that's causing a lean condition on one of the cylinders, continuing to run it without correcting the cause will lead to engine damage, so it's best to try and get it squared away before using it again.

A compression test is the place to start, as that tells you the overall condition of all the cylinders, and if those numbers are OK, you can then look into the cause of the idle issue. But if the test indicates damage to one cylinder already, it's a different ball game.

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I have a couple of dumb questions.

1. Isn't a Optimax a 2 stroke?

2. If it is a 2 stroke, what is it doing with Valves?
Or does an Optimax 2 stroke have Valves?

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To answer your question on the re-power, yes and I wasn't happy about it but it is a "BOAT - Break Out Another Thousand" afterall. All that said, I agree with everyone else about a second opinion and certainly get a compression check. If, and I emphasize the "if" that shows problems then you are to the options your current mechanic laid out.

There is definately some salvage value to that motor, I can't say its a lot, but I think I got $500 for my Yamaha 90 2 - Stroke. As for your concerns about engine weight, model selection etc.....You ask the question here, you will get LOTS of answers/opinions.

Now this may be a stretch, but did you get bad fuel that may have caused this? There is a chance if your insurance company is respectable that if something caused this to go bad, that you may be covered. I had the fortunate chance that mine was.....so it can't hurt to ask, the only thing they can say is no.

Bill

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I do not understand. What motor is it that has failed?

If the boat was bought just last year, why isn't the motor repair covered under the manufacturer's warranty?

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Optimax are two stroke engines, therefore there are no valves. The verados are the four stroke engines. If your mechanic is stating you need a valve job, you need to get that motor out of his hands. I would not trust him with a garden hose.

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I guess we need to really know what motor he is referring too.

I also assumed it was the engine on the boat in his personal page that he was talking about.

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Hey - Okay maybe didn't mention that this was a 2001 135 Optimax. I'm off today to pick it up and send it in for a second opinion - thank you for making this point.

I looked up the invoice from the previous and will post it on the personal page or here if possible (see link). As you can see I had the water pump replaced as I was having an overheat alarm the rest seems to be sundry cahrges and lots of add-ons for a winterize I didn't ask and requested not to do.
I tally that part of the "winterizing with supplies to be $340 approx!

I asked for idle problems and a recurring continuous tone warning . How bad was I gutted?

Should the compression been checked at any point during this work as standard?

Invoice image in Jpeg format. http://www.mfpix.com/serviceQuestions...stions.jpg

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I am no engine mechanic, but any shop that charges $29.95 for a Spark Plug seems to me like they are definately in it to make money..That part at a local Auto Parts store is $2.99

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Mark,

I am having a hard time understanding that invoice. What is the labor rate?

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Is that a six cylinder motor?

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Mark,

I am a MD resident my self and have use a mechanic by the name of AL. He lives in the Essex area and his #is 410-335-2583.

Best of luck.

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Yes, the OptiMax 135 is the smallest of the V-6 outboards. A 2001 OptiMax 135 is one of the most notorious "problem" OptiMaxs made and one which some would not touch with a ten foot pole.

I would confirm (with another mechanic) that it needs a rebuild instead of some much lesser repair and then simply replace it with a new motor if that is the case.

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That invoice is just scary. Don't go back there!

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They split you open and danced on yer innards!


It's one of the simplest, most basic and common and revealing tests available. Inconceivable to me that it wasn't done, although they might have done it and not reported it.

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A correct way to check compression is with a leak down tester. I have a snap-on tester, you thread a hose into spark plug hole. Pressurize the cylinder with the piston at TDC. compare the readings on the two gauges and compute the loss between the two gauges. Anything more than 10% means there is a problem. I have found this system to be better than a compression check. This works great with 4-strokes as you can determine if it is rings or which valve is bad.

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I know nothing about fuel injected 2 strokes such as your Optimax, Do fuel injected 2 strokes have reed valves like carburated 2 strokes. If so that may be your trouble. Sand or debris's in the reed valves will cause the idle problems you are experiencing. If so it should be a relitivly inexpensive repair, but not buy the dealer you have taken it to. Install some Boyson reeds and your problems could be over, that is if you have reed valves.

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Looks like $97.50/hr but the R&R reed block (with intake manifold removal/reinstall) as well as water pump are more likely book time rather than actual time.

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The invoice shows 6 replacement reed blocks installed.

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Thanks all.

I'm pretty disgusted all-in-all.

I'll be by there tomorrow as I drive past to the beach to chat about this invoice and at the very least the excessive winterizing and all-over-the-shop labor chargers.

Okay- here's a new one:-

What can I expect from this engine? Can I run it into the ground for the rest of the season whilst saving $$ for a replacement or is it plain unsafe.

Had I not spent this money and had the expectation of the idle being on the money I would have just lived with it none-the-wiser and been boating this weekend.

Yes, I'm pulling out of this shop fast as possible to find a business that communicates rather than letting the invoice speak volumes. (dunno if that makes much sense)

Ed's can supply a 150 OpiMax as a straight swap out for $9600 + 650 install- i'd take the project on myself but for the shear weight of it.

Thanks everyone - have a splendid time out on the water this weekend - you- you bast***s! I'm so envious. :( I'll PM (just figured that out) with any further q's.

Happy boating - signed - a ...... land lubber. :)

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You mentioned that sand and debris got in the intake. Well they changed out the reed blocks but never got all the debris out. Make them do it again and this time do it right, or take it to another dealer and have it done right, and then take them to small claims court. Bad reed valeves will cause the problems you are experiencing. There is probably nothing else wrong with your engine.

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It can be VERY frustrating at a dealer, you always feel like you are put on the back burner for the summer, it takes forever, and then you get "Whacked" by the bill, and then you have the same problems. If it makes you feel any better "WE'VE ALL BEEN THERE". When I first got my boat, I was at a small marina. The boat ran really bad one day (kept stalling out) and I asked them to look at it. I got a bill that looked like something "Congress would pass". I had re-built carb's, new plugs', water pump, "Invoice looked just like yours", same problem. A co-worker with a boat who was a mechanic didn't understand why the shop re-built my Carb's on a 3 year old engine, he came down to look at my boat, he started it up, he shut it off and asked, did you move the fuel lines ? I said "Yes to clean the boat", he said "You put the fuel line on backward's, the check valves are hanging up", I told him that's impossible, the engine won't run with the check valves reversed, he said "But it did run didn't it", he then looked at a red knob on the engine and asked "Did you touch this", I said "Yea, maybe when I was cleaning the engine", he turned the knob and the engine smoothed right out, we took it out and tested, she ran like a top. I would get a second opinion, and move from there. There are many thing's that you can do yourself, such as "Winterize" and "Tune up's", lower unit oil change, etc.. I'm NOT a mechanic but, there are many thing's that I can NOW do, there's a TON of "HELP" here, you'll get this solved. I didn't get out on the water until "July" last year with steering, tilt tube, and overheating problem's on a 4 yr old motor. I was able to fix it all myself with support from W/C. Boating is expensive, we often ask ourselves "Why do we do this" ? Some years we boat trouble free but, we all know that it can get expensive in hurry, and we can be taken out for the season with a "Toasted" engine in a Heartbeat from something that we can't control. Let's get another opinion on your motor first, I have the feeling that somebody over looked/missed something.

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Find a good lawyer. Looking at that bill, I think you got fleeced.

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Mark
Please make sure you keep us updated as to what is happening on getting you back in the water.

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Thanks all. I'm not giving in and scoped out water entry points in the Rehoboth area for the future. Lewes has it's unfair share of BW's so I'm green with envy.

Lets say it has a bad cylinder. Can I run this into the ground / use the motor as-is or what trouble am I asking for?

Thanks all for the help so far.

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The trouble that can occur is getting stuck out in the water. If the motor is bad, I would not take the family out and chance popping the motor. I would go back to the marina that robbed you w/o a gun and DEMAND they fix the motor or return your money. Be the squeeky wheel.

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Okay so the engine is in for the second opin. but I'm the dealers master mechanic can't be "that" wrong.

So, running it isn't a good idea but what about a salvage option? Anyone any idea if I can sell this motor for salvage? Surely these don't just end up in landfills.

I'm really disappointed I won't make the Potomac Swim gathering this year but that's ... in my case.... b-o-a-t-t-s break out another ten thousand.

Thanks all - let you know what happens -

I like the sound of a re-machine for $700 but not the foggiest who could do this for me. Working on it though.

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mark
If you decide to go with a rebuild, be sure to let us know who you are getting it from........There are a lot of crooks out there that try to put a fresh coat of paint on a motor and pass it off as rebuilt.....some even offer a so called warranty, so just run it by the group first

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I got the second opinion and the #6 has zero compression. I've decided to re-power from scratch with a 150 Opti. The new ones look sweet and in the life of the boat it's worth it.

I'd like to put one of these new Binnacles on the DTS - I think that runs $500. That way I won't cringe when someone else is at the controls nashing the gears. ( Thoughts on this expense?)

Of course the overall cost of rigging new piece might prevent me in the end. Anyone got one?

I don't have the boat here at the moment but does anyone know what size transom this has 20 or 25"?

I'm bummed that I missed the Potomac swim and probably at this rate July 4th. I hate these land legs.

I'm buying from Ed's Marine in Ashburn - down the road a ways towards Richmond. Lucky me and thanks for the lead to them.

Okay, ideas on the depth of the transom and the Binnacle switch? Should i do this myself or just roll-it-in and get back on the water? Money is an issue of course but so is my summer in ruins.

Also can I use my 135 Opti prop on the new motor?

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I got a serious talk from my mechanic. DONT BUY A MERCURY! I decided not to. I dont care that it has a 5 year warranty, I sure didnt buy it to fix it over and over. Buy an E-Tec, or a yamaha. A rebuild will be another waste of money. JMO,

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Mark, JMHO, but I feel you needed to address the rather large amount of money you left at the other dealers shop. I personally would be livid at the thought of dropping that kind of money and now having to buy a new engine. If you have decided on a new engine, that is between you and your wallet. But I would consult a lawyer regarding the old engine.

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The bothersome thing is that it seems he didn't do a compression test and may have done all that work on an engine with a blown cylinder?

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I completely agree I'll take it up with them tomorrow. It's easy to get a blank stare and a shrug.

Interestingly the mystery deepens. The computer which wasn't checked by the dealer or at least recorded if it were showed just 16 hurs on the motor. Was the computer replaced?

I agree that the basic test should have been done as standard to find the idle problem.

I'm trying to contact the previous owner to see if he can solve why the computer only has 16 hrs on it.

Geeze - I want to be out on the water - this is ridiculous.

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Tom -

Opti - Problem for sure.

Now we have of course established the dealer had no particular regard for me and saw the proverbial sucker walk through the gate.

My "main" guy now who is awesome and I'll give him a plug in a mo' found that the motor as only 16.5 hours!!!

The dealer couldn't even be bothered to attach the computer let alone do the compression test which from my understand should have been first and then again after the reed valves where restored.

16.5 hours on a Mercury and it's toast! What a pile of dog droppings do they build anyway?

Plug: Pat Gallipoli - owner - Pro-Preformance Marine. Edgewater MD.
Fair straight forward and an all-around good guy.

I'm taking up this lemon with Mercury with or without a warranty.

I'm still not on the water and I could have know all this in March if Chesapeake Whalertowne gave two S****

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Well 6 years out of warranty and the lemon description doesn't phase Mercury so I certainly won't be buy another. I'd have to be crazy to run that risk.

I'm thrilled that now the decision is done for me and I can upgrade to the E-Tec.

Whilst at Pat Galliopi's Edgewater shop there was Outrage getting a wicked 115 E-TEC installed so it seems the way to go.

I also decided that I wouldn't work with Ed's Marine Superstore since they seem a bit dodgy and with the possible need for any small updates, rigging, I'd soon lose any savings on the motor. It seems that's their m.o.

As a small business owner myself I'm opting for the little guy who cares you come back time and time again.

There it's done. - Phew!

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Congratulations! Amazing how even-keeled you've been throughout this ordeal. It would have sent me over the edge. Hats off.

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Mercury didn't agree that a compression check was necessarily due first off as the mechanic, could, as they seemed to have, started with fuel mix which I guess CW did by replacing the reed valves. Mercury again didn't suggest that a compression check wasn't neccessarily in the offing after the reed valves were done.

The hours on the engine are a mystery. I talked with the original owner and he said he used it all the time in the early years with a 30 minute ride out to an island with his kids. He had regular on-site checks by the dealer so it's not a neglected engine.

This isn't getting any closer to any conclusion - must be because I'm darn HOT sitting here shoreside.
:(