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Getting close to making a decision on repowering our outrage. One of the local dealers is offering me a 200 HP Etec HO for a little over $15K plus rigging. Anyone have any thoughts or experience on the HO Etec vs the regular? I know they're heavier to begin with, but don't know much beyond that. Thanks!

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The 200 HO is the 90 ° big block, 3.3L motor, as opposed to the smaller 2.6L 60° block used in the regular 200. Get the HO version, you will be a lot happier with the extra low end torque and overall performance. The 25" shaft 200 HO also uses the Magnum gearcase which is a plus in your situation as it is designed for pushing heavy offshore boats.

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Ahhh, it's the bigger block, makes sense now, thanks. I've read a lot about larger hp engines having to work less hard, and since it's the same block as the 225, am wondering if it would make sense to go with the bigger HP for longer engine life? Not really sure what the difference is now between the 200 HO and the 225...

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Well there is an old car saying - there is no substitute for cubic inches.

But I will follow that up with really fast Honda Civics at the track, which never would have happened 20 years ago so maybe thats just that - an old saying.

If it were me and all things equal, your boat can handle the weight - so go for the HO... More grunt is a good thing.

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HP is still HP what is the price difference between the 200HP HO and the 225HP? They should be basically the same price and the same weight. I agree if it's between the 200HP vs 200HP HO, got HO but since you can go with a 225, why not go that way?
Same engine as the 200HP H.O. and 5 more HP.

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Thanks for the replies! The one catch is that the dealer who is offering me the 200 HO doesn't have an '08 225 in stock and quoted me over $19K just for the '09 225 motor plus another $2200 for rigging, which seems pretty high to me.

I was able to pretty much rule out the 200 hp yesterday as posts on an Etec forum said it's mainly a tuned up 175 and I'm not sure it would have enough low end. I guess I'm just not sure why there's a need for a 200 HO when it's so close to the 225 in HP? In my mind, it seems like HO things usually need to work harder, which is a detriment to longevity in the boating world, but also maybe why those Honda's go so fast Scott! But if that's not the case, and it's a decent engine, the dealer said he could have it rigged and ready for me in less than a week, which is very appealing!

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The HO Motors have a High speed gear case. Yes the 200 HO is the 90 deg V-6 and the 200 std is the 60 deg V-6. The 150 HO and std are the same powerhead though. There is about a 90-100 lb difference between the 200 HO and 200 std, the weight increase going towards the HO.

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I'm not trying to start a brand war but $21.2k for motor and rigging is nuts IMO. I have priced a new 300xs Merc at $15.8k and can probably shave a couple hundred off that figure. I would look into the Optimaxes, they have proven to be better on fuel, you support a American owned company, lower emissions, lower weight and better factory backed warranty. Also don't overlook the 200 hp 4cyl verado if 4 stroke is a option. I would never go back to that dealer if he told me $21.2k for that lol Good luck with whatever you put on the back.

Scott don't forget those fast Civics are usually boosted and/or have nitrous. Most of the time they are also in a stripped shell of a car and aren't pratical for everyday use anymore. Most are lucky to get 25 mpg after all the mods and seem to need constant tuning. they can fly but in the end they still sound like a fartin bumblebee :D

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I say go "H.O." (High Output). You're not going to run "Full Throttle" all of the time, and as we all know from boating, sometimes we get caught in a "pinch" situation, if it were me, I would want the "H.O." on the back if I needed the throttle in a hurry.
mw

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While I defer to the outboard pros on engine choice, I do recommend you shop around.

Getting several quotes and telling them you are getting bids will get them to give you real figures.

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I'm not a speed freak. I like the idea of the 200 hp because it is 100 pounds lighter than the 200 HO.

I also have a need for a trolling motor or a backup motor to either fish or use in an emergency to get me out of trouble. I have said this before, I believe all boats 17' and over should have a kicker motor even though some may get by without one if they have Sea-Tow close at hand.

A 200 hp and a 100 pound kicker motor will be the same weight as the 200 HO....

Andy Gere bought the 200hp for his 22' Outrage Cuddy and is also using a kicker motor.
http://www.whalercentral.com/infusion...ser_id=271

Unless you are a speed freak or a tournament bass boater, I would recommend the 200 hp over the HO model for the 22' Outrage series Whalers.
The 200 hp should be cheaper than the 200 HO model unless this dealer just wants to get rid of the HO model.

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Well here's an idea sure to further confuse. How bout re-powering with what the boat was designed for-Twins. A pair of 115 e-tecs would be an awesome set-up for that boat. It is rated for up to 240 HP. I'm sure a pair could be had for the 21K figure the dealer threw at you-perhaps less-and offer performance & reliability beyond a large single. For the same price, or even a few dollars more, I'd hang a pair of twins hands down.

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The twins are appealing for sure, but the extra weight of 225 lbs compared with the big block Etec would be a factor on our hull.

We ended up going with the 200 HO and it's getting rigged this coming week. Given that the hull is a little heavy, there was some question whether the small block 200 would have enough power, but the low weight would have been great. It was a little tricky determining exactly how much HP the HO engine produces, but it should be enough hopefully. Thanks for all the suggestions and feedback, and once we get it in for a few runs, I'll post back with a report.

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It was a little tricky determining exactly how much HP the HO engine produces



It is the low end torque that you should be concerned with for your boat, and the big block HO version will greatly outperform the small block 200 in that category. You made a good choice.

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Many thanks Seahorse. I was told that when all the Etec's are tested at the factory, they have a acceptable 10% hp variation, which I took it to mean that a 200 could be anywhere from a 180 hp to a 220 hp. I may be mistaken, but I thought that the low end would be related to the HP output of the engine? So it seemed important to get a ballpark number as I didn't want to be underpowered. But from everything I've heard about these engines, it's going to be a world of difference from the old looper!

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Derwd,

Be sure to wear your goggles and your seat belt and hold on tight.
Seriously, hold on tight and wear that safety lanyard....

Look forward to hearing how that motor does on the Outrage 22'....
I think you are going to be impressed.

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Thanks Joe, I think so too... He has an aluminum prop on the item sheet for about $150 and when I asked about a stainless, he said he could put the price of the alum towards it, but it would be another $450 in addition to the trade. So I've got to decide on that and make sure it's the right prop for the rig and it should be all set!

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If he is asking $450 for the Steel prop, I think that I would take the alum he is offering..............keep it as a backup and purchase a steel one from someone else. $450 seems outragously high to me.

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Plenty of SS props for sale on ebay cheap.

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Io, I agree, and it's really closer to $600 as he takes the alum back in addition to the $450. I'm not well versed on prop selection so buying one is kind of like a shot in the dark. It would be good to have the option to swap it for a different one if it's not quite right....

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Dave get the aluminum prop first. Run the boat and while you get used to the motor see if you mechanic has a set of stainless props for you to use and find the one that fits your needs. Then order or purchase the stainless and keep the aluminum for a spare. I know my mechanic has a bunch of test props you are able to take on loan to test and find one that fits your needs before purchasing one.

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Derwd24, i think you will really enjoy the rig. I have a 88 outrage 22 with a 2006, 225 etec on it and its quiet, its fast and uses very little oil or gas. My 225 pushes me along at 54 MPH flat seas no head wind to speck of. So, as Joe said, grab some goggles, lanyard, add a seatbelt and enjoy the ride!

Duf B)

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Thanks Duf! We were really torn between the 200 HO and the 225 like yours, but the deal on the 200 was just too good... It'll be interesting to see how this performs in comparison, but I doubt we'll see a top speed like yours! The old '87 looper got us up just past 43 MPH, but you could literally watch the gas gauge drop towards "E" when that engine was anywhere near WOT.

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I hate to tell you this, and I'm surprised someone hasn't already, but Seahore's magazine, Bass and Walley Boats, did a test on the big block 200's, and the E-tec 200HO proved to be a terrible gas hog, beaten badly in fuel economy by the 200 Optimax and Yamaha 200HPDI, which came in first and second, respectively.

It may look like you're getting better fuel economy when compared to your old 2-stroke, but compared to the other DFI's and 4-strokes, the big block E-tecs don't win any awards for economy.

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That big "H.O."stamped on the engine scream's "WAY COOOL" B)
Congrat's Dave !
mw

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Thanks MW, picked it up yesterday and if it performs as good as it looks on the back of the Outrage, we're all set!

Finnegan, these real world performance numbers in the link below on a similar Outrage 22 hull would seem to be in conflict with what you read:

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/...03984.html

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No offense but this chart proves nothing. If the SAME boat had also been run with a HPDI and Optimax of the same hp then you'd have something. Unfortunately boats cannot be tested like automobiles due to prop and setup, so there's going to have to be a bit of faith involved along the lines.

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Understood Bob, I was just trying to illustrate with real world numbers that this engine isn't a "terrible gas hog" as stated. Wasn't trying to compare brands.

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I don't think anyone with any sense would call any DFI 2 stroke a gas hog, just the Etecs seem to be "slightly" behind in that area. I'm sure the difference could be made up by buying bargain beer :D

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Derwd, i checked out your chart you ref and i do know for a fact, that my flow meter is telling me approximately the same thing for 3500 RPM's i'm burning in the neighborhood of 7 and some change GPH. I also know, that the last offshore (althought some of my Whaler friends said i wasn't really offshore at 10 miles ;) trip i took i left at 05 dark thirty, and was out till 2 to 3 in the afternoon, with a lot of trolling and a run back to the channel, with a lot of running from oil rig to oil rig during the day. I left the dock with 3/4 of a tank, and returned with a little over a half a tank. So, bottom line, if that isn't the latest and greatest, and there are motors out there that do even better, fine, but i'm estatic about whats slung on the back of my Whaler! :D and i think you will enjoy it as well!

DufB)

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I finally got the boat in the water yesterday and am very impressed with the engine overall. It starts incredibly easily, idles super smoothly and evenly, and has a throaty sound that you know means power. Having no choke or fast idle is great, especially when the engine is cold, and even in the double oil break in period there's no smoke at all. The power and low end torque that this engine has is amazing, even on a heavy hull like mine. And it just plain looks great on the boat! (I'll post some pic's in the next few days). Thanks to everyone for the valuable input!

I think I need some fine tuning as I'm only getting about 5200 RPM and 40 mph with 2 people and average gear at WOT with a 14.5 x 20 stainless prop. When I took it out tonight alone, got up to 46 mph and 5500 RPM wot. Any thoughts or suggestions on props to try, etc, would be appreciated!

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[img]http://www.whalercentral.com/images/ppimages/4535/SNC10803_640x480.jpg[/img]

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Prop might be a little too big, might want to go with a 18 or 19 pitch.

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Dave,
wait until after break-in has finished to test props. most folks agree that you will gain RPM's once break-in is completed. Looks like you need to drop down to the 18pitch, depending on you run normally, will it mostly be you alone or with one other friend?

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Thanks for the replies. The 20" prop is too big for this set up, but the dealer never water tested the rig, which is very disappointing the more I discover about how correct prop selection is really key.

I'm planning to try a 17" pitch as I usually have a number of people on board. This morning's run was 3 adults and 3 teens, and this afternoon's was 2 adults, 3 teens, and 3 kids. Then there's tubing...

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The boat looks Great with that new Etec on there Dave! Once you get the prop dialed in your gonna be movin!

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Aim to get the RPM's between 5500 and 5600. That should be the sweet spot.

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Dave, looks just like mine............fantastic!! I have a 14 1/2 X 19 that was re-pitched to a 21 which gives me a top end of 54 with conditions perfect at about 5400 - 5500 RPM's, trimed way up of course. With your 200 horse, i would still think you would be in the neighborhood of 48 MPH or so given we have the same size boat and i have a few more ponies. Enjoy the motor, i know i have!!

Duf B)