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I have a 1989 70 hp Evinrude. Im thinking about removing the VRO oil tank and premixing the oil and gas. Main reason behind this is the cost of replacing my old tank. Has anyone done this with their engine? And if so how do you like the results.

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We have a Envinrude 150 engine and have had the VRO removed, we now mix. It runs fine, but lacks the oil variation so it smokes more than with the VRO, and in my opinion mixing is a pain unto itself.

To me not having to mix my fuel is a big bonus, so if it was me I'd keep the VRO if at all possible.

Dana

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After the warranty expired on my 1989 200 Johnson, I discontinued use of the oil side of the VRO and went to pre-mix. The motor was running great when I sold it in 2005 after replacing it with a Yamaha four stroke. I used more oil, experienced some minor plug fouling during slow speeds, and the motor did smoke a little more. I never felt pouring oil into an oil reservoir was any less effort than adding it to the fuel tank. However, input from members during a recent thread on this very subject enlightened my thoughts on this issue, and if given the choice today I might opt to keep using the VRO for oiling.

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Given the price of oil today, I think if you keep the VRO installed, you'll make the cost of the new tank back eventually as it does save compared to premixing...

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Thanks for all the quick input! I guess I'll be buying that oil tank this week. Checked around and everyone is selling them for about $160. It was just another attempt to cut the cost on the restoration.

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Take a look on eBay... You can buy brand new ones there from time to time for much less.

Just make sure you get the correct version for you engine... 1995 and older.......

I'm glad you decided to keep the VRO....
I personally would not buy any boat/engine combination that someone has disconnected the VRO..
That would worry me....

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fabricatordave,

Most of what the "mechanics" tell us about the VRO is myth....

I would like any mechanic to show proof, beyond any reasonable doubt, that an OMC VRO system caused an engine to seize up from lack of oil due to the VRO pump.

Many mechanics just blame it on the VRO because it is hard to determine sometimes why the engine just blows.... It's easy to say it must have been the VRO...
Sorry, I just don't buy that statement as a whole.

Sure, I'm sure there have been some failures... But that is NO reason for mechanics to advise everyone to disable their VRO systems... That is ridiculous in my opinion...

I would never disable my VRO (now called OMS, Oil Metering System) from any engine.

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I had a 70HP with VRO. It was new to me and I thought all I had to do was add oil. Well, I didn't realize that the oil tank didn't have just oil in it when I bought it...since the oil floats, I couldn't see that the engine was stalling because I was trying to lubricate with the water in the bottom of the tank. The repair shop showed me the scorched cyl and the water from the tank......so just be careful.
The first thing I did on my next boat was to remove the tank and clean it spotless.

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ABL,

That's too bad that happened.

However, that was not the fault of the VRO pump or system.
That was the fault of the prior owner letting water to get into the system somehow.
Maybe a cracked cap on the VRO tank, or a cracked tank...

My tank is located inside a battery box which helps protect the tank from the elements.

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I never thought of putting it in a battery box! Thats a small price to pay to keep it protected. Thanks again for all the advice it's much appreciated.

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konakai,

In the photo below, you can see 2 battery boxes on the left side of the photo. One is for the oiler and the other is for my single battery. The other plastic oiler on the far right is my Accu-Mix system for my kicker engine.

[img]http://users.sisqtel.net/jkriz/Outrage/rear-inside.jpg[/img]

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A lot of engine failures are blamed on the VRO failure but many of them are caused by other issues. It is just easy to blame the VRO. Out of all of the oiling systems it is the one with the least amount of moving parts which means it has lfewest parts that could fail. Also, it is one of the easier systems to replace and not that costly either. Ever have a Merc system go out on you? They are a lot of failures that are due to poor carb maintenance or a build up of carbon on the rings. If the carbs get full of old / varnished fuel or plugged with a bit of debris it will cause it to run lean and burn up the cylinders it feeds. To many this was caused because of lack of oil, no kidding it was lack of oil but, it was not the fault of the VRO system it was a fowled carb that caused it. If the VRO system failed completely then ALL of the internals would be shot not just a single cylinder or group of cylinders feed by that carb.

A lot of motors that show scuffing and scoring of cylinder walls did not get that way due to lack of oil. Most of the time it was caused by carbon build up on the piston and rings. Once the build up gets to a point it will cause the rings to no longer move freely and even deform. This is when scoring occurs. This will happen even if the motor is getting the correct amount of oil. Once this begins it increases internal cylinder temps and this will cause failure. This carbon build can be caused by over mixing oil which, when premixing, can easily and repeatedly happen.

In both of these cases if you are running the VRO or premix the motor is going to fail you and not because there is an incorrect amount for oil in the fuel. It really comes down to maintenance of your motor.

Yes if you have an older VRO especially one that is NOT FULLY ethanol rated you should think about replacing it. The latest generation of the VRO was released in February or March of this year. I had mine done on my 1985 235 V6 in May and is was $485 installed. That is a rather cheap price for a piece of mind. Outside of that there are no real maintenance costs that go with the VRO. Here is the easiest way to have a flow test done on the system. I always marked my tank with a pencil before every use so that I could check to make sure it as drawing. Honestly so long you as routinely check all of your lines and make sure they are not cracked, check all of you hose clamps for a good closure, make sure your alarm system works, and routinely follow your usage you will have problem operation. If you let your system go and do not routinely check it, you are opening yourself up for problems. Whether it is a VRO or any other oiling system. If this is to much for owner or to costly maybe owning a boat is something that is not for them.

Honestly I passed on a lot of boats because of a disconnected VRO system. To me, and this is my opinion, I see it as someone just following here say and not doing their homework about something they own and operate. I also see it as someone not willing to cover the cost of proper care on their vessel. If they have the VRO disconnected what else on the motor and hull has been improperly cared for.

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fabricator,

This was directed at YOU.......


The rest of my post was NOT directed at you... Just general discussion about VRO and what mechanics tell people..
I don't know where you get the idea that the older systems were "failure prone"...
Do some fail? Yes? but I wouldn't say they were prone to failure...
All cars are prone to failure too.... If cars had VRO's, I would still keep mine.....
Anything below this line is not directed to fabricatordave...
----------------------

I have a 1985 Evinrude 150 with NO problems...
I also recently sold a 1985 Evinrude 70 hp that I had for 15 years without any problems...
I have also had other OMC motors with no problems.

The VRO system does need checking from time to time.. Yearly would be ideal but not many people do it.

I understand why some people would disconnect the VRO..
They are in college and can't afford it is one that comes to mind.

I am going to stick my neck and and tell all mechanics my point of view here.
Here is to all the mechanics who tell everyone to disconnect the VRO because it is a bad system.
HOGWASH.........
If any mechanic told me to disconnect my VRO because it could blow my engine, they would NOT be my mechanic....
I also would never recommend that mechanic to anyone... Ever......
I have a great OMC master mechanic and he does NOT advocate disconnecting the VRO..

This is not directed at any members here.....
This also does not mean that a good mechanic can have their own opinion of the VRO system.
They may just not like the VRO system.

Am I dead against some mechanics just telling everyone to disconnect their VRO system?
Most definitely.... This is one thing that I obviously have a very strong opinion about.
I know there will be more discussion on this but for everyone, please, just the facts, and proof, that the VRO actually caused your engine to blow....

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Here is my major concern about mechanics or people telling everyone to just disconnect the VRO because it is prone to failure or is a bad system.
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Concern:
A person buys his/her first boat. Takes it to a mechanic that they don't know because they have never owned a boat before. The first thing the mechanic tells them is to disconnect the VRO... The new boat owner listens to them because they don't know any better just from lack of experience.
For the rest of their life they think the VRO is a bad system. Is this fair to the VRO system?
Or, is this fair to the new boat owner.. They never get to experience how easy it is to use the VRO system as opposed to mixing fuel the rest of their life unless they go to a 4 stroke.
For the rest of their life they tell all their friends to disconnect the VRO... and the myth continues..
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I am opinionated on this subject and I feel that many mechanics and people don't know what they are talking about when they tell others to just disconnect the VRO....
Yes, and again, the VRO, like anything else in this world, does fail... But not very often. Definitely not often enough to tell everyone to just disconnect it...

Again, if any mechanic can show me proof that an every engine that blew up was caused by a faulty VRO, then I might listen... However, this is not the case. They might be able to prove a few engines blew up due to the VRO, but that still does not justify telling everyone to disconnect the VRO because it is a bad system.

I would like people to hear the other side of the story from the owners of VRO systems and the mechanics who are knowledgeable about the system. It's a good system. It rarely fails if taken care of. It may need to be replaced once or twice in the engines life span.
Shoot, I never did anything to mine in 15 years and it still worked just fine.
I have one working right now and it's original to the 1985 Evinrude 150. I may replace this to the newer OMS pump next year just to try it out but certainly not because the old one has failed.

I guess I am just sick and tired of hearing that we should all disconnect our VRO's because some mechanic tells us to... It's always some mechanic... We never hear who that mechanic is...
Joe Blow? Who is Joe Blow anyway? I think he is the guy down the street that has a tool box and might work on one or two outboards a year....
We generally don't hear from a reputable mechanic telling everyone to disconnect the VRO system..
Do we really? If so, I would like to hear from them....

I mentioned above about the college student maybe not being able to afford a new VRO pump.
Hey, I was in college.
I can also think of another reason to disconnect the pump. If the engine is old and not worth $300 as that is about what the VRO pump cost... Why throw good money away. Either run without the VRO or buy a new or used engine that works and also has a good working VRO....

Bottom line:
Please don't just disconnect your VRO systems just because Joe Blow tells us it's a bad system.
(disclaimer: the above statement is not directed at anyone here. It is directed towards the myth).....
I want to put an end to this myth of disconnecting the VRO.

If economics don't allow you to fix the VRO, then fine. You have no choice. Disconnect it.
Just be knowledgeable about it. If you want to disconnect it, then that is obviously your choice.

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I had trouble getting up the $ for my new outboard (yes, I went to KOL-edge), I chose to go "NON-VRO", and had it disconnected when I bought new, it saved me some $ (I think), and it's only a 50 H.P. so mixing is NOT a big deal for me (6 gallon porta-tank). If I had a larger engine I probably would have went with the VRO, it's one less system to break down on the engine (I'm sure that something else I added to my boat will break instead), I am NOT familiar with the newer VRO systems but, I remember "Yammy" owner's expressing some dissappointment with them years ago at K&K Marine here on L.I., other Yammy owners loved them. I think it's just something in my head that fears that little diaphram will tear (maybe they don't even use diaphrams any more), it's kind of like when I jack up a car with a hydraulic jack, I'm sure it's safe to go under the car but, it's only a .25 cent "O-ring" between Me and death, so Jack stand's get used, maybe it's the fact that "I see" the oil going in the fuel tank, so I worry less. I also use "Carbon Guard" in the fuel (seems to help a lot with this lousy fuel quality). When moving up and down in the rpm zone on the engine does the VRO keep up ? or is there "Lag" time there ? this is NOT a fight, or a question directed at ANYONE, or a "Dig", I think it's a good subject with lots of myth's and questions, just good discussion to learn from. Is it still recommended that some oil be put in the fuel tank in addition to the VRO system ?
mw

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would you argue with what the mechanic does on his vessel? Ask the mechanic. If you are willing to throw him money when your engine needs attention, won't you also listen to his free opinion on what he does on his vessel. Ask him to take a look at his systems; it would shed a lot of light on his business. Like any human going offshore, he does not want to get stranded or tie up to a tow. If you trust him, Trust him. JMHO.

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John,

I would not argue with a mechcanic that does this on thier own vessel. I would just leave and find a new one. I have found that trying to reason with ignorant people is a fruitless pursuit of time and energy. My mechanic STRONGLY recommends not disconnecting the VRO. Since he is the oldest continuously operating OMC sales and service dealer in the world I think he knows what he is doing.

Just because someone can turn a wrench does not make them a reputable mechanic. Heck a well trained monkey can turn a wrench.

Anyway if you have a mechanic that whole heartedly believes the VRO should be disconnected and you trust him fine. That is you choice. However if your mechanic just leaves your VRO pump in place and plugs it, you really better think about finding a new mechanic. You should NEVER just disconnect then plug the oiling side of the VRO pump. If you wish to not run the VRO pump you should remove it and replace it with a standard fuel pump which is under $100. This is a good test of a mechanics true knowledge about a VRO.

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As additional information in this regard, Joe Reeves posted the following about OMC VRO pumps at Marineengine.com. His profile reflects 30+ years OMC experience.

(VRO Changeover Judgement Call)
(J. Reeves)

The VROs first came out in 1984 and have been upgraded quite a few times. In my opinion, back around 1988, they had perfected them but I think that they were upgraded even more since then. As long as the warning system is operating as it should, I feel quite at ease with them.

Some boaters have voiced their thoughts such as "What if that overpriced plastic horn should fail while I'm under way for some reason, and the VRO decides to fail five minutes later?" Obviously that would result in a big problem which really brings their fears into view.

The word "ease" is the key word though. If one has the slightest feeling of being ill at ease with that setup, then they should take the route they feel more at ease with. A judgement call each individual would need to make on their own.

********************
(VRO Pump Conversion To Straight Fuel Pump)
(J. Reeves)

You can convert the VRO pump into a straight fuel pump, eliminating the oil tank and VRO pump warning system, but retain the overheat warning setup by doing the following:

1 - Cut and plug the oil line at the engine so that the oil side of the VRO pump will not draw air into its system. Trace the wires from the back of the VRO to its rubber plug (electrical plug) and disconnect it.

2 - Trace the two wires from the oil tank to the engine, disconnect those two wires, then remove them and the oil tank.

3 - Mix the 50/1 oil in the proper amount with whatever quantity fuel you have. Disconnect the fuel line at the engine. Pump the fuel primer bulb until fuel exits that hose with the tint of whatever oil you used. Reconnect the fuel hose.

That's it. If you want to test the heat warning system to ease your mind, have the key in the on position, then ground out the tan heat sensor wire that you'll find protruding from the cylinder head. The warning horn should sound off.

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I think the main reason VRO's get blamed for powerhead failure is the rubber line can and will dry/crack with age. Once this happens it allows air into the system and throws off the oil ratio or can be enough to cease it completely. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what happens next. I am in the same boat so to speak as i'm unsure if I want to use the vro on my 1999 150 Evinrude or just eliminate it and premix thus by insuring I have plenty of oil in the mix. I think the oil line is the weak link on the system. That being said you can find complete tank/line kits for under $100 shipped to your door. My decision is made tricker because I also have a kicker in the equation. So do I try to hang a add-on oil injection unit on the kicker or do I just run them both pre-mix? Good thing I have plenty of time to figure this one out

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I think one thing to consider is how much the boat will be used, how many gallons of gas will be run through the motors in the course of the year. Obviously the premix will be more expensive to run, but how much more. If is it not significant, and you are unsure of your VRO system, I would go with premix. The oil injection on my `87 Suzuki DT150 makes me a little nervous, too. but I never heard of a failure. I know many VRO`s have failed. I never understood what is entailed in converting to run premix.

Rich

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I replaced my original VRO on my 1984 Johnson 90. I estimate 500 hours on the engine. This was a no wire vro which would probably scare most of you. I used the engine as it was for most of the season with no issues. I did replace the VRO oil tank first which had cracks in the top. The hose was in good condition, flexible with no signs of problems. Both fuel and oil lines under the hood were bad. They all had cracks and also broken ties which were difficult to see until you dug into it.
My new VRO out of the box was bad and had air leaks through the housing. I sent it back and the replacement 4 wire VRO now installed is a champ. Both low oil and no oil work just fine.
I don't use the boat much but when I do I'll use and fill my 27 gal tank 2 or 3 times when I'm out for 2 days. I love the VRO. It makes fueling easy for me.
Pete

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Well I searched for this topic, so I would not start a new thread. I hope some one responds.
Question-How do you know if the VRO is working before it is too late?
I just bought a used boat and it has a 1993 120 hp Evinrude. This is the first engine that I have owned with the VRO that I have owned. I also heard from a guy who was told by a mechanic that the vro should be disconnected. I personally do not want to do this.

I have ck'd the lines, tank ect and all looks good and it runs like a top. Will the buzzer go off if it does not get any oil? I do not know

Thanks
Mike

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Mike,

Check out Joe's article on testing the warning horns, give it a go, and when you're done you can be assured that all is working properly. Like you, I think it's wise to keep the VRO.

http://www.whalercentral.com/readarti...ticle_id=9

Dave

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Thank You for that link
Mike

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Bob, I think the kicker should have its own fuel system. Many breakdowns to the main motor are fuel related:o, so the separate kicker tank is insurance against fuel related problems to both motors.
Rich

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Mike,

There is another way to check if the VRO is pumping oil and is also recommended if an owner changes out the oil tank or replaces oil lines etc...

1. Fill the VRO Oil Tank to the proper level and put some kind of mark on the tank.
2. Run pre-mix fuel from a portable fuel tank
Now, after running for 1/2 to an hour, check and see if the oil in the VRO tank has dropped below the mark you made. If it has, then the VRO pump is pumping oil.

I had to do this once when I purchased a new oil tank to replace my old and cracking one.

Like Dave mentions above, check your warning horn system.
The only one you will not be able to check is the "NO" oil unless you disconnect the oil lines from the VRO pump or oil tank and you really don't want to do that at this time unless they are already disconnected.

I would advise you to run pre-mix like I mentioned above just to make sure the system is working and as long as your alarms are working, you should be good to go.

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So by doing that the motor will be getting more oil than it needs, It will not hurt anythink just smoke more right?
I will do that this weekend

Thank You
This site has the bet advise out there.

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I wouldn't put any fuel/oil mixture in my 2 stroke that I hadn't mixed myself...
then you KNOW, that if the motor blows up...it's your fault!
IBM called it...another "point of failure"....
if it works...great!...if it doesn't...kaboom!

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Mike,

Theoretically it should smoke more but not enough to notice, at least not on my engine.
I could possibly foul plugs but again, mine didn't...
As long as you only run 3 or 6 gallons thru the engine just to make sure the level in the VRO Oil Tan has gone down.

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I removed the oil injection from my fishing and one race motor. Call me old school, but one less part to fail and especially such a critical one. I always know I have plenty of oil, I even mix a bit rich, but I would rather buy plugs a little sooner than rebuild a power head. If it is under warranty, than it is a no brainer, you have to have it.

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On that same note, "what if the warning horn fails and I pick up an ice bag in the water and 'cook' the motor?" Not all engines have the SLOW system on them.

What would happen if the HOT light burned out on your car just before the engine overheated or the OIL light fails and a leak develops?

The warning horn should be checked as part of the maintenance of the motor.

For the factual information on the "VRO/OMS" pump, click on this link:

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/refe...e/VRO.html

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OK,
The VRO is not working, I mixed oil with the gas and measured the oil tank, ran the boat yesterday up and down the inter-coastal and did a little fishing too. NO change in oil tank. Started looking at the VRO pump and found buried in the hoses that the previous owner cut and plugged the hose.

Do you think that I should replace the VRO or keep premixing the gas?

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Ste_The_Hook,

That would be entirely up to you.

I am not against people disconnecting their VRO for a reason. What I can't understand is if people tell someone just to disconnect it because it is no good. I still say Hogwash to that.

If you enjoy mixing fuel and enjoy not knowing "EXACTLY" how much oil you have in your mixture, (too little, too much) then keep on pre-mixing.

If it were me and I planned on keeping the boat/engine, then I would buy a brand new VRO pump that has all the new features and install it. Again, you will still need to run pre-mix at first to make sure the VRO is working before going back to straight fuel.
A new VRO pump is around $300. You would also be getting the fuel pump which is built-in part of it too.

Good Luck with your decision.

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I am going for it, I like the OEM way of doing things. Thats for the help

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OK, there are a series of tests that must be performed to make sure you "VRO" will work correctly and you should keep running pre-mix fuel until it is determined that the pump is fully functional over a period of time.

The late model service manuals explain how to test for correct oil flow at various speeds and how to test the NO OIL alarm to make sure it works. The oil tank should be flushed out, the hoses and clamps inspected and a new filter installed in the tank. The LOW OIL float switch on the oil tank pickup should be tested, too.

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For those of you that don't know seahorse, he is a reputable Evinrude mechanic.
In other words, he knows his stuff.

I believe the newest, most up to date part number is #5004558
This is no longer called a VRO... It's called an OMS for Oil Metering System.
Check with your dealer as you want the newest OMS or maybe seahorse will let us know here for sure as things can always change.

I have some instructions on how to test some of the warning horn sounds on the older VRO system here. Some of these tests are the same for the newer system.
http://www.whalercentral.com/readarti...ticle_id=9