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I've been thinking about putting the forward shelter and flytop on my Outrage 20. With all the windows too so I could be completely enclosed if I need it.

Anybody have them that could share your opinion? Actually, I'd like to hear anyones opinion.

I have already talked to Mill's about them and they aren't cheap. But it would be great to use my boat this winter.

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Roger,

I have been out in 34º weather and lightly snowing with my Flying Top set. This does NOT include the side curtains or rear, drop curtain. It was nice and warm inside the helm area as long as the wind wasn't from the stern.

[img]http://users.sisqtel.net/jkriz/Outrage/flyingtop2.jpg[/img]

I also use the Fly Top during to summer to keep the sun off. I wouldn't be without the 3 pieces.
Forward Shelter, Windshield, Fly Top.... You can always add the side curtains or rear drop curtain later if you feel you need them. I don't for my use....

[img]http://users.sisqtel.net/jkriz/Outrage/outrage.jpg[/img]

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I agree they are not cheap ! But let me tell you there is nothing like it,I had the old frames and original cotton set that was delivered with by Outrage in 1971 the years took their toll on them.A local shop that puts out very nice work made a windshield for me good effort but nowhere near the workmanship of the original. My location here in Connecticut allowed me to trailer my boat onto a ferry and on to the Mills shop,after a week I returned and was amazed ,there is no substitute I had a complete set made foward shelter,windshield,flytop.drop-curtain and aft curtain ,the frames are also new all stainless ,they were able to fit all this to the original hardware on the boat . It"s raining here today the seas are 2-3 feet ,I had the day off and went boating. The fit is such that a lighted candle on the console would not flicker and bone dry. The money was well spent.

[img]http://www.whalercentral.com/images/photoalbum/useralbum_11/1971_scrimshaw.jpg[/img]

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Two positive replys so far. :D
Thanks guys.
It's hard for me to see how everything works, but I've seen pics of a lot of different configurations.
These canvas shelters seem so handy and can be put out of the way so easy.

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Roger,

Another vote for the foul weather system. For the last run last year my Father and I took my 22 Outrage out of Port Huron for a afternoon cruise. Buckda and Jimh decided to join us on Dave's 18. Well the weather was 42 degrees with 20-30 mph winds so, to stay the weather was less than perfect would be an understatement. Extra layers, winter jackets, hats and gloves were a must on my boat while Dave's (Buckda) Outrage had a full foul weather enclosure. They both a jackets on and not to much else. The stayed warm and we still froze. It was a fun day none the less and it was the reason I had to find the same set up for my 22. I was able to find a nice used set but never got to use it before I sold the boat.

Here are some images

Normally I would recommend people to search out a well respected local shop to have this system made. I is not that I do not like the Mills stuff I just like being able to have little custom touches added and also be able to meet with the maker to go over the production of it. Being so close to mills (which most are not so lucky) you just may as well use them.

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Yea Jeff, I know what your mean about using someone local. I will get a much better job by bringing my boat to them and have the canvas fitted.

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Roger,

I with the exception of one pretty much everyone I know with the Mills curse it as much as they love it. They curse it to death when they are trying to get the whole system up and together but, love it when they finally get it all up and situated. Most of the complaints are that you have to fight the tops because they almost feel to tight or small. Getting all the zippers zipped and buttons down seems to be the pain points. Mills makes a great product and because they were the OEM supplier to whaler they are the most trusted because you can mail order. However, no two boats are the same and the "Off the Rack" approach does not always provide the best fit especially, when you are paying the price of a fine "Tailored" item.

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I guess I'm the exception. The secret is to "start" the zippers and finish the snaps, then, when all the snaps are done, to zip the zippers to tighten the whole system.

It works like a charm - I can honestly say that I hardly ever NEED the rear curtain except when sleeping aboard and trying to avoid mosquitoes in the summer or when running a small pelonis ceramic furnace at the dock in the fall or early spring (to keep the heat in).

The whole system was the best $3,000 I ever spent on my 18.

Dave

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I was thinking there might be a kerosene heater that I could use with the fully enclosed system. Hopefully with a way of sending the exhaust outside.

Or maybe I could get one that runs off of gasoline. :|

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I was thinking of having mine done in red.

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roger,
I would order Mills in any color you want. They are a great company to work with, and while I will admitt they aren't cheap, I have mills canvas that I bought used that is probably 20 years old. Still works great and will last for a long time.
I am getting ready to purchase a fly top and side curtins for my 18 to go along with the forward shelter and windshield. I plan to have the boat out by early March next year and should be nice and warm.

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kamie,

Are you missing the boot for your forward shelter. I don't see it in your photos.
I sold an extra boot I had for the shelter just last year...
Bummer.....

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Thanks for posting that pic Joe.
Are there any other options I should be aware of? I want to be sure to ask all the right questions when I'm making the deal.
I noticed some pics of the forward shelter that showed windows and the whole front zipped open. I don't know if that is something I need to ask for or if they all come like that.
I will be having the whole thing installed by Mills. And I will most likely drop my boat off this weekend.
Thanks for all of the input guys.

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Roger,

As much as blue is the standard from mills when it comes to whaler I have seen some with the red canvas and it looks great. I think the toast color would be a great option as well even for the desert tan colored hulls. The lighter color does not get so hot in the sun as well.

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I love the look of Scrimshaws boat. He picked an excellent color.

I am thinking of red because I have seen pics of the Outrage 20 with a red rub rail and I think that was the original color. It looks great. I will get that too.
I'm even thinking of changing my bottom paint to red.

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arthureld, see Bob at Mills and negotiate, I saw 10% off the entire set. While there check out the duffle bags available in all colors ,the entire set will fit in one. The boots will come with the flytop and foward shelter. Check out my personal page and see the aft curtian that zips to the shelter to completely cover the boat I have to say I would be lost without it. I wish I had a velcrow type cover for my forward shelter window, thats the only thing I would change. Your bottom , my vote, Pettit Vivid Red.

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Joe,
I have the boot but need to get new zippers on it. I will send it up to Mills along with the mooring cover that they are going to restitch for me, patch and replace the cords. I decided not to send all that until after I put the boat away from the winter. The mooring cover is nice to keep things out of sight when the boat is on the lift. Also, it stays much cleaner when it's covered.

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Is there a different version of the forward component? Does it have to be the full shelter? I could use just a small bit of canvas to act as a windscreen on cooler summer nights. Maybe covering the bow rail area. How does one secure an anchor off the bow or dock when the forward shelter setup is on?

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Roger,

You can buy any of the pieces separate.
However, as James points out, when buying the whole set make sure you get the boots.

There is a boot for the forward shelter and the flying top.

Note: (There is also a boot for the Sun Top but you won't have this with your Flying Top Set).

None of the other pieces have bags or boots. I purchased a nice after market bag, just the right size, to store my windshield in as Mills does not sell a bag for the windshield, side curtains, or drop curtain.
I see they are making bags now but not sure if they will work for any of the above.
It would be nice to have a bag for each stowed piece.
1. Windshield
2. Side Curtain(s)
3. Drop Curtain
Keeping these separate and nicely rolled in a bag keeps them from getting the glass scratched while in storage. Also keeps them drier and cleaner.

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Note: the boots are an extra upcharge. Be sure to get both.

I agree with the advice to buy a Mills Canvas Duffel bag - the windshield, side curtains and aft curtain all fit in there, plus room for a warm jacket and gloves if you're interested.

If you're taking it to Mills, ask them to make the front window on the shelter completely removable.

Also, make sure that the button snap at the top aft corner of the side curtains is installed correctly (mine was inside out).

Accessing the anchor is difficult with the shelter up - you end up going through the window in front - which is not easy for a big guy...the recommendation is to anchor from the side or stern if in very calm water with the shelter set.

Good luck!

Dave

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PJ, I think the front of the forward shelter opens up.

Scrimshaw, that red bottom paint is perfect.

Here's a pic with a red rub rail. With only 3 inches of red sticking out of the water, I think it will appear similar to this.

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I have a question that I have never gotten any kind of an answer to. I want to add a full canvas set to my 21' project boat, but I'd like the option of removing the eisenglass and zipping in screened panels. That way we can sleep on the 21' and still get some breeze/draft. Has anyone seen or heard of this done? Is there a screen material to use for such a application?

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Bob, yes there is and we had it done on our Family's 32 Wellcraft St. Tropez. Some panels had windows and you could unzip the glass, roll it up to the top, and tie it off and a screen stayed in place. It was great for sleeping on the boat.

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Thanks for all of the ideas guys. I will ask about the removable window on the forward shelter and something to makes anchoring easy. And seperate storage bags for each window & a duffle that holds all the removeable pieces. I will also ask about screens and boots.

Is there anything else I should concider?

This is the color of red I will use for my canvas. :D

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where is your antenna mounted ? Get extra buttons as the color matched ones are hard to find when needed,also ask for a section of the scrap material you never know.

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I don't have an antenna yet scrimshaw. But I will be sure to address that issue because I will be installing a VHF radio this winter.
Thanks for the suggestions.

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Well, one other thing that Bob pointed out to me is that the standard flytop is only 6' tall. Since I'm 6'4, mine will have to be a custom. B)
I'm glad I figured that out before it was put together.

I'll probably wait a while to have it done, because it can take a couple weeks and I'm not ready to give my boat up that long.

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Well, I decided to bite the bullet. I'm taking my boat to Mills this weekend to have a custom set of canvas put on. Mine will be 6'6" high so I can fit sanding up.
I also decided to go with the toast color. My gf talked me out of tomato red. :|
Toast looks really good too. I still might get the red rub rail and bottom paint.

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I have a new Bimini that I hardly use, a friend that makes canvass took an order for a Bimini for a 15' sport, the guy left a deposit, the bimini was made, the guy never showed up, phone calls to him got nothing, I got a free Bimini top, it looks great but, it gets in my way for fishing, so I rarely use it, it's in the garage in it's boot, when the weather gets really hot 96*-100*F, That "Bimini" can save your life ! What a difference it makes getting out of that scorching Sun ! There is also a new tougher material now out that is better than "Sunbrella", more rip resistant and a better material, make sure that you get THAT, and not the old "Sunbrella". A piece was cut half way with a scissor, I tried to continue the rip with my hands, it would'nt budge ! amazing stuff !
mw

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I got it more for the cold. I'm also having a connector hooked up on the console so I can wear my electric gear. I have electic gloves and jacket liner now, but I can also get electric sox. I've used it on my motorcycle for below freezing at 90 mph without being cold.
Cold won't stop me. :D

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Bob & arthureld,
Check my personal page here:
CDNwhaler's personal page

The front half is all original Mills. I then added the camper back with the large windows which have zips on them that allow the window portion to be rolled up and have only screens.

The part I've not done, and I think is critical for ventilation, is to install the same type of system into the window at the bow on the forward shelter.

I carry a battery operated fan for the really hot nights.

The zippers are attached to the eisenglass Bob. They don't "zip out" or off. I'm putting the canvas away this weekend for the winter and could take some more pictures then email them if you're interested.

Peter

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Your setup is awsome Peter. You kids are going to be adventurous like their dad. B)