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I think I've heard people say they troll with their regular motor. One person even said that when they troll, their motor shuts down some of the cylinders.

I'll be buying a new motor for my Outrage 20 soon and I'm thinking why should I worry about a kicker?

I'll only be using my boat in populated areas and Sea Tow is always 1/2 hour away.

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skip it. if you have sea tow, that's all you need in those populated areas. Cell phone probably works, too. I have one because I go 30 miles off So. Cal and into the waters of the Sea of Cortez in Mexico. Save the $$$$. Mike

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Ahh, Sea of Cortez sounds great. I lived in So Cal for 25 yrs. I miss San Felipe.
But yea, I'd need a backup there. Especially since there is almost always an offshore wind.

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Sure, if you have 50 people around you and/or Sea Tow, then you don't need a kicker. Be at the mercy of anyone else close by....

For those who don't have the above, and for those that fish at all, I recommend a kicker.

Why put hours on your brand new engine when you are just trolling for fish?
Why not put those countless hours on your kicker instead of your new main engine?

Why pay for Sea Tow if you have a kicker?
Sea Tow is probably great if you are far out at sea, but if you stay close in like most of us, why pay the extra fee when you have a kicker?

Just my thoughts....
Of course, Why not have them all????
1. Sea Tow
2. VHF Radio
3. Cell Phone
4. Kicker Motor
5. When all else fails...... Flares..... Rockets... Star Spangled Banners.....

Anyone purchase a new automobile and have it break down the following week or so????
Argh.... It happens....

Bottom line.... Whatever you feel comfortable with.....

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I wish I was a fisherman. I only fished once for about 1/2 this year. Didn't catch any either.

Between my work, motorcycle accident and my engine trouble I haven't been able to go. :|

Now I have to make up my mind about a kicker.

I was thinking that I don't fish enough to need a kicker. Especially if the new motors can handle trolling with no problem.
I didn't really think about racking up the hours on the gauges though.

I also think the boat looks cleaner and is less cluttered and has less weight on the back without it. My Outrage 20 doesn't need any extra weight in the back.

Then there is the fact that these new motors are extreamly dependable. So, the security of a kicker isn't as necessary.

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I understand Roger...

For me, the kicker is security and allows me to troll very, very slow for fishing.
I don't need two batteries as I have the kicker and the kicker I have now weighs 58 pounds. Not much more than an extra battery....

I plan on buying a new E-Tec 150hp and at the same time, an E-Tec 9.9 kicker.
I am waiting for the 9.9 to come out sometime during the 2008 model year....

Everyones boating is different. If you boat for awhile and find you need a kicker, you can always add one later...

For me, I would never be without one..... I don't have Sea Tow where I go.... and there is no one in site most of the time. Cell phones generally don't work, and there is no one available via VHF.... A kicker for me is the ultimate choice.... and again, it saves hours on my main motor....

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I would get a kicker just for piece of mind if nothing else. Have the dealer rig it with the new motor and get a dual control. Also make sure the motor can run off the main fuel tank which means a 4 stoke or getting a accumix system. Either way the other motor gives more bargaining room with the over all price as well.

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And all safety issues accounted for, I would have much (and I mean much) preferred to have made it back to the (well attended) beach when my engine quit a few weeks ago under kicker power than on the end of a tow line. Pride, humble pie, or just self reliance, I'll have one on board next year even with a new motor.

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My Sea Tow wasn't quite so bad for me, but a few of my neighbors came out to see what was up when we pulled up to the dock.

It was a rather uneasy feeling when I realized my motor wasn't going to start. Luckly for me, my cell worked and I remembered 1 800 4 SEA TOW. I also happened to have my GPS with me so I could give them my exact location.

I will see about working a kicker in as part of the deal when I am negotiating for my 175 hp. I guess I could put the kicker on and take it off anytime I want to.

And I could get that cool Buck Roger's controller. :D

Are there any extra guages I should get for the kicker if I do decide to get one?
Will I need a special kicker mounting bracket for my Outrage 20?
I remember seeing something about connecting the kicker to the steering also.

The place I will have the work done at is a classy operation (they did a great job on the rigging of our 13), but I would like to be as specific as I can about this installation.

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I have a almost new 2006 E-Tec, however, my plans still include a kicker when i start venturing offshore in the Gulf. I'll probably go with something much larger then a 9.9, but i also have a 22 CC outrage and i don't want to die of old age getting back from 40 miles offshore. If your ok with floating around waiting on Sea-tow to show up, great, but for my piece of mind, and wallet, i will be prepped to take care of myself, and come in one way or the other when i'm done with a day of fishing, unaided, and untowed. B) But hey, in a populated area, 30 mins from Sea-tow, i wouldn't bother with the cost and added maintenance.

Duf

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If you are "Trolling" a kicker is great idea for saving fuel, it's also good back up, keep in mind though that cell phones are UNRELIABLE on the water, a V.H.F is a much better idea, I keep a hand held back up V.H.F. in my "Ditch Bag" too, I have also seen "Sea Tow" bringing back boat's WITH kicker's on them, if you go aground and get stuck, a kicker won't help, just throw a line out, or get a good book, crack a Beer and wait it out, the tide usually comes back soon, most folks get caught at low tide, so it's just a little wait for the water to get back in, if you try and struugle out of the mud (it's mud/sand here), you'll just cause expensive damage to the boat or engine, just shut down the motor, and wait a little bit, "Tide and Time wait's for no man", so you can count on the water coming back in. If you're running off shore, Twin motors are prefered for safety.
mw

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duf,

A 25hp will not push your boat any faster than a 9.9hp.... Just the way it is....

I had a 25hp kicker on my 22' Outrage Cuddy.... Way overkill and a waste of kicker fuel.
Also a waste of money for the larger kicker.....
http://users.sisqtel.net/jkriz/Outrag...rage22.jpg

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Okay, I'll throw this into the discussion, if you are settled on a kicker...Why not twin 75's or 90's instead of a single with a kicker. Does the boat have trim tabs? I suspect the boat will list to the side of the kicker.

How much price difference between a single 175 with a kicker, dual binnacle and twin 75's or 90's? Maybe someone can chime in with some real figure$$ ?

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If I could mount twins on my montauk I would. I like the idea of redundancy. A kicker is great for all the reasons listed above. With twins, one engine can get you up on plane and back faster. The opinions go back and forth all the time. If money is no object the decision is easy for me.

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Not to hijack the thread but I have a related question along Mike's line of thought for Joe. I'm in the twins camp, that's what I have now (1986 120 Evinrudes). Joe you had a 22' Outrage with a 175hp Johnson. Was the power adaquate for a 22 Outrage? Would twin 90's be adaquate given your experience with the 175? I understand the attributes of a kicker, I just like my twins but want less weight back there.

Jeff

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This site is great. So many friendly suggestions. I hate going to a dealer when I don't have any idea what I need.
Now, I can ask the right questions and will more likely be satisfied with my choice.
Thanks guys. :D

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SpongeBob (Jeff),

I like Mike's idea too... for the people that venture offshore or just like twins.

The 175 was adequate for the Outrage 22' which is a little different than Rogers 20 which is only rated for 180hp... Twin 90's would be perfect for the Outrage 20.... Twin 115's would be perfect for the Outrage 22'.....

I had twin 70's on an Outrage 18 that was rated for 150hp... The boat would plane on one engine.
That is the key to me for having twins... Redundancy and the ability to plane on one engine to get you home faster than a kicker. I believe the Outrage 20 will plane on a single 90hp and the 22' will plane on a single 115hp.... I am not positive as I personally haven't tried it but maybe others here can confirm....

I know a single 70 will plane an Outrage 18....
Anyone else want to add information about the 20 and 22 hulls ????
I know what the paperwork says but real life experience is hard fact....

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If you don't fish very much, I would lean towards the twins application even if you are only half an hour away from sea tow. I rarely see a kicker offshore in the Gulf. Twins dominate...but we rarely troll offshore...just run and fish. Trolling is left to the Bertrams. A good friend just bought a 24 ft Century with twin Yamaha 4 stroke 150's. The boat is a pig (bouncy) but the twins on back sure are nice. Paul

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Just took a look at the weight for a new 115 HP on the Engine Choices page, with twins averaging 750 lbs, that's salada weight! I like the concept though...

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If you are going to use the boat offshore, I like Mike's thinking of twin engines. Early summer, went 60 miles offshore in my neighbor's 32' Scarab Sport with twin 200 2 stroke SWS Yammies. On the way in, lost an engine at about 40 miles out around 3 PM. Single engine would not plane the boat. Got back to the boat ramp close to 10 PM. Long trip that gives you a lot of time to think. Neighbor considered calling Sea Tow, but I'm not sure they had a vessel that would have improved our trip in. The Scarab is like the Queen Mary in size and weight. I think most boat failures are due to battery or fuel issues. Most experienced boater's do the preventive things to limit problems in those two areas; however, failures can still happen. My only tow in from offshore occurred when the stator failed on a new 1989 Johnson 200 that I had purchased two weeks earlier. You never Know!

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The weight of 115's is what worrys me as well. I do not know what my '86 120's weigh but I do take a wave over the transom now and again. Thus my question regarding the adaquacy of twin 90's, which should be lighter. 115's weigh the same as 130's (at least Yamahas) so there is no penalty moving up. However if a 90 will plane a 22' they could be a viable option. My 21 year old 120 Evinrudes will plane the 22' with only one engine (I'm sure they are no longer pumping out max. hp) so I would assume a new 115 would as well. What about a single 90 planeing a 22'? Any body with experience? I know many run 200hp motors on 22' Outrages and Revenges with no complaints but would the 20hp difference between 180hp and 200hp really be that noticeable?

Would twin 90's be to heavy for Roger's 20'er? It may be the same delima I , and others, have with the 22'.

Also there are other reasons besides redundancy. Manuverability in tight quaters. No need for trim tabs. Some say better econmy when running (not sure about that one). Then there is the cool factor.

Jeff


P.S. I'm only talking about 2 strokes.

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Outrage 20s already have too much weight in the back. I'm buying a 2006 Johnson 175. I think it weighs less than a E-tec 175. I have a hard time finding that info, but I found one spec that said a 2000 Johnson 175 weighs 370 lbs. That is 57 lbs less than the E-tec.
I'll know for sure soon.

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Excellent question, I'd also be interested in any info on the 22' hull and the 90 hp. It would have to be the 90 Yamaha's though at 522 lbs total is the lightest set of twins, seems reasonable....

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Roger,

My 2005 Johnson catalog says the 175hp with a 25 inch shaft weighs 391 pounds.....

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Thanks Joe. Is that catalog online?

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NO....

I have many older catalogs that I have saved over the years.

I just visited the Johnson site and they no longer list any large engines....
9.9, 15, and 25hp 4 strokes are all made by Suzuki with Johnson colors...
9.9 and 15hp 2 strokes are the only Johnson engines left....

This is only a guess, I haven't heard any rumors or facts, but I think we can all see that BRP will most likely faze out the Johnson line once the small E-Tec engines arrive...
As mentioned above, the larger Johnson engines are already gone. All that is left is the 9.9 and 15 hp 2 stroke motors made by Johnson....

I also no longer see the FICHT engines listed on Evinrudes site so that must be the end of the FICHTS..... Again, guessing here, but I think the only line that BRP will end up manufacturing is the E-Tec models...

From the beginning of my boating adventures back in the early 1970's, I always thought it very strange for OMC to sell 2 brands of engines. The Johnson and the Evinrude.... Why not just one?
Maybe BRP is going to change all that with just the E-Tec line-up.....?????

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Yea, I went to the Johnson site too and saw the same thing.

You may be right about Johnson going away. Why make 2 types of 2 strokes? And why sell Suzuki's under the Johnson name?

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They are fazing out the Johnson line as Merc did the Mariner....Joe is right on with his engine weight of 391lbs. BRP is focused on E-tec and 2-stroke technology. A few weeks ago I spoke with one of our Marine Police who had nothing but good things to say about the E-tecs they have. Several have well over 400 hours this season with no problems.

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I would buy a e-tec for my boat, but even though I like this boat a lot and it is perfect for what I need right now, give me a year or two, and I will most likely decide to get the perfect classic Boston Whaler that I will know I want to keep forever.

When I get that one, I'll put a E-tec or 2 on it. :D

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Just curious Arthur, what would that be, bigger or same size but in better shape?/newer, etc

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My boat is in very good shape and I hope to be lucky enough to find another classic Whaler in good shape. At the moment, a Outrage 22 would probably be my first choice.
A little more V, but still not demanding 2 huge motors.

I am a traveler too, and sailboats have been catching my eye. Or, maybe something with a cabin. Time will tell.

My Outrage 20 is amusing the hell out of me now. :D

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duf,

A 25hp will not push your boat any faster than a 9.9hp.... Just the way it is....

I had a 25hp kicker on my 22' Outrage Cuddy.... Way overkill and a waste of kicker fuel.
Also a waste of money for the larger kicker.....
http://users.sisqtel.net/jkriz/Outrage22/Outrage22.jpg

Ok Joe, ready for power boat lesson, 103, what's up with this? So, are you telling me since neither motor will get my 22 to plane, that i'm max'd out with what? I'm serious about getting a kicker for the RA as soon as i take care of the basic upkeep, and a T-Top :D So by all means educate me as to why a 9.9 will not push RA any faster then a 25 or more kicker, as i sincerely do not want to spend the cash needlessly.

Duf

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Duf,
Not sure but I would guess that it has to do with the displacement speed of your hull. A whaler will only go so fast and since neither a 9.9 nor a 25HP will plane your boat why go with the bigger kicker if the smaller one will take you to max displacement speed.

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Ok Kamie, but i have to think there is a chart that says with this motor you get X amount of speed, and on up until you reach planing (sp) speed. I used to have a 9.9 evenrude on my stilletto 27 that would push me along at 12 knots or so. I upgraded to a 15 horse evenrude and got to 15. The difference is, i was on plane with both so it wasn't an issue getting on plane. But, i can't believe that if i have a 9.9 and go to a 35 horse, i will get the same speed???

Duf