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Ok the new to me whaler came with a 1976 Evinrude 70
It is not doing so well towing my large tow behind toys for the kids
I have a week long camp in northern Maine coming up right on the lake
What is the best power for this
I have seen many Etec 90 hp motors
I have been looking at the 90 merc but it seems huge !!!
What else ???
Honda Suzuki ???
Any help is great !!!
Also can somebody direct me at the three hole mounting thread
As always thank you !

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My choices would be:

90hp = E-Tec, 320 pounds
70hp = Yamaha, 257 pounds

http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...ticle_id=5

Drilling new lower holes for new motors:
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=82

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Have you done a compression/leak down test yet? What rpms are you seeing not towing the kids and then towing the kids/toys. All you may need to do is change props for towing the kids n toys around. More blade area and less pitch for the prop. Bit cheaper than a re-power, unless you already have the wife's ohkee-dohkee. : )

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The Yamaha F70 seems like a great motor for that hull...

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Hey thanks everyone , oh the 1976 is leaking around the head leaking fuel ,
Bad fuel pump .... It's time ;)
I will look over the suggestions ....
Thank you


(changed abbreviated year to full 4 digit year for clarification)

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Now a days it's about service and price. All the manufacturer's make great 70's and 90's.

Personally I think I like the E-TEC since it is low weight and has the self-winterizing feature. If you get a good window in March, you can splash then re-winterize.

I had a Yamaha F115 and it was super reliable, quiet, efficient. Consider a F90.

I think Portland Yacht (Evinrude dealer) is moving soon so they may distracted. Gowen is good for Honda. Port Harbor sells both Yamaha and Mercury.

I got decent Yamaha parts service at Port Harbor in SoPo. until they restaffed.

Shop hard and work the dealer's against each other. There is a large cushion for them to use. Think new car dealer. Get detailed estimates in writing.

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Ok thanks so that leads to my next question ....
What does one pay for an Etec 90 installed
( controls, oil , running ) installed

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I know the try to rope you in with one price that is JUST the engine
Then they add all the goodies

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Since you need power and torque for pulling large water toys, etc, you will not be happy with another 70.

You need more cubes of displacement. Seriously look at the American made Merc 90 4-stroke you mentioned. It is the lightest weight of all 90 4-strokes, and only a battery weight (39#) more than the small cube E-tec 90.
All of the 4-strokes have more desiplacement, and 4 cylinders instead of the E-tec's 3 cylinders.

Check out the 2.1 liter displacement of the Mercury compared to what the E-tec has, or even the other 4-strokes. This is where the pulling power and torque come in. Mercury says the engine also accelerates faster than the 2-strokes, including their own Optimax engines, and which is why they stopped making the Optimax 90. It is a very powerful 90 from what I have been reading. Since Whaler puts this engine on the new 170 Montauks, you can see their performance report on this rig on Whaler.com.

Pricing should be about $7300 for the engine, then add $500 for control, cables and ignition harness. Any additional would be labor and/or profit and sales tax. I'd guess you'll be looking at $8800 or so with tax out the door.

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Ok if using the three hole up mounting method do I need to go to a 25 inch shaft or still use the 20 ???

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OK here is where I am at, I have a dealer holding a 20 inch shaft 2015 Etec 90 HO for me ......
After some reading I decided to go HO for the hole shot when pulling my three kids on there huge tow behind toys.....
And If I am to ever get my beer belly up out of the water on a ski :)

So what I need from you all is the ok....
the 20 inch shaft is the right choice when doing the two or three hole up mounting.... Right????

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Also when you look at this post

http://www.whalercentral.com/infusion...ser_id=291

He says Two holes up and he hits the splash well....? will this work with the 90 HO ETEC???

Also Joe.... does this diagram come with the engine for mounting ???
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=82

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Take a deep cleansing breath....

You don't need a 90 HO to pull a skier or tuber. The dealer is trying to move inventory. What is key is the correct/appropriate prop for the activity on a 70 or 90.

The older motors did not use a standard bolt pattern and dealers did not pay much attention to mounting the motor and performance. In todays world we know you want the motor height to be such that it has the least amount of lower unit in the water to perform.

This can be translated roughly as: anti-cavitation plate being 1 1/2-2 inches ABOVE the keel. This is 2-3 holes up.

In addition, some props like running deep while others shallow.

ETEC's perform best mounted 3-4 holes up.

Getting back to motor:

Take time to decide brand/model.
Get 2 written estimates from dealers that break out prices as follows:

Engine: $ X
Prop: (Make model size and pitch) $ X
Gauges (review manufacturer site to decide what you want)
Wiring harnesses
Binnacle:
Labor to remove old
Labor to install new
Test and complete warranty fee
Sales Tax

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Phil i actually like the HO and have got a nice price on it, compared to what I was quoted in Portland for a regular 90..... :)

so I have the two estimates and a third on its way.... :)

I am going with Etec... I have owned them before.

So in your opinion is the 20 inch shaft correct ?

Also ... No unrigging cost as I will take care of that... :)

I like the HO for its power... the regular 90 is the highest rating for its 3 cylinder engine (high Strung) the 90 HO is a detuned 115.... seems like more longevity on that engine...?

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I was about to recommend the F70 because 70 lbs. difference on the transom is signifigent in my opinion.
Raising to the third hole should not change the shaft length, that is the point of raising it [to get less drag].

I have recently posted about my 16' boats. One has 90 one has 70HP, both Yamaha 2-strokes. To me the 90 is bordering on too fast, especially if you have children that are growing into an age where they will be running the boat. I am finally going to re-splash the one with the 70 HP tomorrow. It will be the first time since raising it to the third hole up. I have pulled a lot of tubes and skier over the years with no problem using 70HP.

If you look close up at crbenny's install it appears to be 3 holes up. He mentioned "all the way up" which would be 4 holes up.

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Mtown he states "two holes" ???

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No it does Not.
You need to tell your installer to drill the "Green" holes and fill the old lower holes.
Print out the diagram and take it with you.
Then you can mount any new motor either 2 holes up or 3 holes up without ever having to drill any other holes.

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Perfect !! Thanks Joe....

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Actually the Suzuki is the lightest of all the 90 4-strokes made today.
Suzuki DF90 = 341 pounds

The Mercury 90 = 359 pounds.

It is what it is, and facts are facts.

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Joe, is that motor weight chart current for the most recent model year? The year of the motors isn't shown anywhere.

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Yes, "Current" motor choices.

Those are all the motors available now from any of the respective dealers.
There is really no reason for me to list motors that are no longer available.

Also note that these are motors available in the U.S.
Other motors may be available in other countries but I do not track other countries.

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Agree, just confirming the chart was current...thanks.

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That same exact Mercury engine in 115hp is the lightest 115, which is probably the fact Larry was thinking of.

Since the OP decided on the Etec 90 HO, which is a 115 except in decals, the Merc 115 would be the engine to compare it to. I believe the Merc wins in weight, power & cost.

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Yes, he mentions two holes up twice but also states that he should see higher top end if he raised the motor all the way up. I think he raised to three holes up.
I zoomed to 200% and in both pictures that show the stern it sure looks like 3 holes up to me. As Joe stated, with the green holes you can put the motor in any holes you choose. Also take note of the black rod he inserted thru the new holes. That is about the same angle I drilled to be in the splash well.

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I think you will find the e-tec 90 to be a good choice. And $8800.00 is a good estimate of out the door cost. Apparently Evinrude is offering free rigging including binnacle and tach when you buy a new e-tec. At least that was my dealer's claim. However, I think they make up for that in other places.

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They sure do. The dealer has to make close to the same margin with the incentives...otherwise they would just sell a different motor. Evinrude probably takes the hit. But, more motors sold at lower profit = less motors sold at higher profit. Wash.

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Man I wish I had your dealers !!!
I have three quotes and the motor alone is more than that :(


Ps the old motor is off ;)

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I just re-splashed my 1966 with the 70 hp Yamaha 2-stroke today. It is a boat/motor I have run for many years and I have a sense of it's speed ect. but have never had GPS or other method of measuring speed on the boat.

Having raised the motor to the third hole up has definitely made the boat faster. It is a little less improvement than I actually expected, but I am certainly happy with the move 3 holes up.

Not part of this thread, I have just completed a major repair to this hull/foam/laminate ect. It is about as bad as Whaler damage ever gets I assure you. I will share photos with all that care to see. E-mail is on my page.

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Good lord they promise you anything to buy the motor
Was supposed to be done today after being there since Monday.
Called to see what was up ..... They had not touched it all week !!!

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Even if the HO was less money I'd still put the standard 90 on a Montauk. No need to carry the extra weight that you have no need for and you're limiting your resell options.

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The good news is this boat will never be resold !!!
It took me quite a while to find one in this nice condition

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The "old" Evinrude V4 2-stroke 90s were about 300 lbs., so in terms of comparable "grunt" the HO adds another 90 lbs. to your transom. I personally wouldn't do it on a 1970 boat, but I'll be interested in your results.

John K.

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I read somewhere on here whaler max weight for transom was 410 lbs ???
Also I have seen 16 w/ 115 Etecs ?

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I'd put the 115 on before the 90 HO. At least then you'd gain significant top end performance and still have the option to put a power prop on it if you felt you needed more low end power.

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IMO the lighter the better on a 17 foot whaler hull. I repowered with a 257 lb Yamaha F70 and the boat handles MUCH better than it did with a heavier motor and is in my opinion much more seaworthy than when it had more weight on the transom. 70 hp works fine for me but I know some like more horsepower. I also run a Tohatsu 6 hp kicker most of the time so my total weight is just under 320 lb which is what the ETEC 90 weighs and the boat handles it fine but I don't think I would ever put more than 320 lbs of outboards on a 17 foot whaler hull. With my old motors I had a total of 386 lb and it was way too much, the boat handled terrible and I took waves over the transom.

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I guess I should add this boat is fresh water only .....
It is our ski & tube boat. Bright sunny fair weather sailing @ the lake only ;)
Most of its life will be spent in that low grunt pull up to a plane , slow down we lost one ... Start over mode ....
I am really not worried about top end, although I'm sure this thing won't be slow proped right !
I really appreciate all the feed back , but the HO is going on as we speak ....
So I guess now we just wait for sea trials and numbers ;)

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This is a great chance to show how the added engine weight changes the static trim from a lighter engine. It looks like you have a nice dry boat and I'd guess you are adding 130 lbs with the new engine. There has been a lot of talk about how 400 lbs of engine is too much weight, but it is always anecdotal info about this random boat against another.

I'd be willing to bet the new engine doesn't change the float height much more than an inch, and when loaded with bodies not enough to measure.

I look forward to performance #'s. Ron put one of those on a Smirked Montauk but I don't think he posted final numbers, and your boat should be faster. >>

http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...ost_129377

What are you putting on for a prop? I'd ask here rather than rely on the dealer.

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Tom Clark recommends the stiletto Advantage 13 1/4 x 17
Of which I now have one . As the install is still going on right now I am not sure what the dealer is putting on it ?


PS the dealer and I laughed .... It's not 400lbs its 390 lbs ;)

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Err, is he installing it 3 holes up? I'd bet it would be very dialed in out of the gate with the Stiletto prop.

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Yes three holes up !!

Giddy up !!!

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See the last 2 photos here in Ron's personal page.
Looks like he mounted his 2 holes up but maybe he has raised it since?
http://www.whalercentral.com/infusion...r_id=13252

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Joe,
I zoomed to 200% and it appears 3 holes up to me.
Neat to see the backround, I think he is only a few miles North of me at the beach.

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I zoomed in also.
I see the 4 top bolt holes and the bolt is in the 3rd hole from the top leaving 1 hole below the bolt.

That would be 2 holes up unless I can no longer see.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...cle_id=106
Anyone else see something different?

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I'm with you joe I see an extra hole at the bottom ;)

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My mistake. I just went back and re-read the primer on what terminology is used to determine how many holes up the motor is mounted.

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I have just read this post. Sorry for the delay.

My ETEC 90 HO is currently 2 holes up. The prop size for my SS Viper is 13 7/8 x 17.

The status of my first boat trip of this season was as follows: The water was like glass and no wind or current. I had the boat fairly loaded with only one person. I had a Full tank (22 gallons) of gas. The Rear bench seat was installed and weighs about 65 pounds. No Bimini top. At wide-open speed and by adjusting the trim, the maximum speed was 44 mph. This was at 5500 RPM's. Remember this is with the engine being two holes up. I'll probably get a 2-4 MPH increase when I put the engine at three holes up.

Since that initial trip, I've had the pleasure of many outings. With the Bimini Top on (and open) and loaded to 7 people on the boat (4 adults and 3 children) I can be on plane in 4-5 seconds and reaches a maximum speed of 37 MPH (5500 RPM'S) with the Bimini Top open. The boat does sit about a 1/2" lower in the water due to the extra weight of the engine.

Overall, for my typically heavy loading, I am very very pleased. Although the engine is more expensive than the standard ETEC 90, I believe it has many "material/component" and power advantages,......... as it really is a detuned 115 set at 99 HP. Realizing that my Montauk is only rated at 100 HP this is perfect for me.

There are several reviews on this engine that go into all the material/component details that are on line. Just search ETEC 90 HO.

I'm planning on adjusting the engine to three holes up (as suggested by Tom and Many Others) next season.

I'll let you know more later.

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Ron, thanks for the report ...
I'm hoping to get mine back from the dealer today or tomorrow
I'll let us know what I think .
Thanks

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Ok just got off the phone with the installer
Boat is ready !!!!!
Pick up tomorrow AM
original speedo works and is hooked up !!!!

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Ok tomorrow I'm going to take a bunch of photos ....
what is the best way for me to make them so you all can see them??/
I use photo bucket but seems overtime I use it or link to it ... my entire library becomes public ??

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(removed link to another forum site and photos)

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Ok ... So we went two holes up honestly three holes looks to me like the cav plate would be to high
As it is , laying a straight edge across it, it is above my drain hole, it looks perfect.
Tomorrow AM we are all going to the lake so we shall see how it goes !

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Well if you'd stop putting nekkit moose pictures on there you wouldn't have to worry if it was public.

I think if you go to your Photobucket settings you can set the main page and all the albums private, right now they must be public. Then make an album for the pictures you want to share and set that one as public.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to do a Project Album here for the repower.




The only way you are going to know for sure if the engine height is right is by seeing how the cav plate rides at speed. Obviously don't check with everyone in the boat, actually why not? Maybe loading people in the front raises the back.

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Ha !!! :) you would have to dig through years of kiddo photos

OK Ill see about the album thing :)

Thank you !!!

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try this.....

Joe I'm sorry if this is wrong.... Im really not the best at this....
http://s103.photobucket.com/user/back...aler/story


(made link clickable)

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I agree with MG56.
Make some of your albums public and make other albums private on photobucket.

You could also start a Project album on repowering as mentioned above.
Or add more photos to your personal page.
http://www.whalercentral.com/infusion...er_id=2562

Please do not link to photos on other forum discussion sites.

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Thanks joe.... Sorry I won't link to other sites ....

I struggled with the personal page last time....

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Photobucket looks good.

Yes, personal pages is not for everyone for many reasons.
I wish it were easier but can't do anything about it.
Tried to change over a few years back and some people got so mad they left the site just because we were discussing changing from personal pages to something else.

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The other day I tried to change my Avitar.... you can see how well I did :)

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Ok .... Sorry , no report today wind came up and lake got real choppy
Decided that would not be my first day with the new rocket ;)

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WOW.... 51 mph 5500 RPM
JUST ME AND 22 gal fuel. ;)


Speed recorded by "Speed Box"app

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Nice photos.

5500 rpm is right on the sweet spot.

Are you happy?

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Love it !!!!

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I will give a write up when I have better service

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What is the gear ratio of the engine? Speed seems kind of high for a 17" or even 19" pitch.

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Larry -

For the 90HO the gear ratio is 2.00.

I helped him (with some help) on the prop suggestions offline.

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Not being familiar with BRP engines, thanks for that information, Phil. The reason I asked is because any outboard running a 2.00 gear ratio, including several that I have with that very common ratio, would need to be turning a 21" pitch prop to achieve 51 MPH at 5500.

I know that Tom has said for years that these Stiletto Advantage I's run effectively 2" more pitch than marked (probably because of very aggressive cupping), so an effective pitch of 19" would give more like 46-48 top end speed at 5500. That has been exactly my own experience when running 19's on these engines. Mercury's propeller charts also bear out those numbers.

I do know that these old 16' hulls do run faster than the 17's, so I'm sure 51 MPH could be obtained, but it seems to me a 19" Stiletto (effective pitch of 21") would be needed to get there with the 90 HO. And I have one for sale also!!!

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Ok so .... I used speed box app ????
Could it be off ???
Not sure ???
I know that it showed 51 solo and about 48 with my wife in the boat
She is 5 foot nothing ;)

Did I just have an amazing day towing my kids all over the place without the old blue smoker on the back
WELL HELL YES ;) !!!!!!!!

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That's what it's all about. Whether you are going 40mph or 50mph.

Speed test are never totally accurate because of wind speeds, current speeds, etc.
Speed Over Ground or Speed Over Water.. All have to take into account the wind and current speeds.

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Thanks Joe, I'll add some photos to my photobucket later this week

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Ok just added a pile of photos ( I think service is terrible here )

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You come here (KY) and I will go there, enjoy your boat and crap service. Ha Ha!

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Phil, two unreal Maine days on my father in laws lake

Ok .... Now tonight "Speed Box" would only show 48 MPH
However the water had a ripple on it and it would send it into a wobble
So ????? Not sure I would say top end is 48-50 somewhere ;)

Not sure if the pix loaded

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Ok sorry .... Photos are now on Photo bucket

http://s103.photobucket.com/user/back...aler/story

I will add more later.... just got home from the lake.

also will give details on the weight of engine and handling of the boat....