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I have a 1979 v 22 outrage.And a 200 v6 Mariner. Iam wondering how many knots I should be getting on this boat ?? On Gps I am only seeing 27 knots all trimmed !! I was hoping i would see a bit more speed. Also I have a Tach that only goes up to 6000 is that a problem ? Thanks Bob

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I'm probably not the guy to be giving advice on outboards, but even to me that seems pretty slow. On the 6000 RPM's i'm-a-guessing thats more then enough, and i wouldn't advise going over it if for some reason you have some serious prop issues, like a prop thats way to small for the boat, which could contribute to the slower speed your seeing. My 22 outrage is knocking on the low 50's, but thats with a 225 E-tic. :D

Duf

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What's the pitch on both your props? I have a 22' Outrage with an '87 225 HP I took out for the first time and was a little disappointed with accel and overall speed, and boy was it thirsty! It's got a 21 pitch and never really made it over 5100 RPM. Thinking of dropping the pitch to improve the low end performance...

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Bob, Sounds like you can go up in pitch. What are you using now? My V6 merc was to operate at 5300 to 5800 RPM. 27 knots is abut 33-34 MPH, if your Mariner was also a 79 it was not prop shaft rated, more like a 175... You should not go beyond 6000 rpm... but you should see at least 40+ mph... What prop are you using?

Duf, what prop did you wind up with, diameter and pitch? You also have your engine mounted a hole or two up right? This will make a big difference with the right prop.

Drew, You are right you should be fairly close to Duf. Those old OMC's had tons of power, but were very thirsty :|

A good Stainless will allow both of you run closer to the surface and raise your engine for bit more top end. Maybe you can raise then a hole or two, I know it is always not that easy... I want to this with my 17ft but will need to drill new holes... I may get a jack plate to use the exiting holes.

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Jon, I will check the prop tomarow.Its stainless but i dont remeber the size.My step sister used to live in Greenwood lake . In a log cabin .You lived there long ?I would be happy with something near 40 mph . Thanks Bob

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You might also want to check your engine height.
What hole are the bolts mounted in at the top of the engine?

If you are throwing a rooster tail off of your engine (cavitation plate) then your engine is mounted too low.

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Bob,

Your Mariner 200 has a 5800 RPM redline so the tach is just fine.

27 knots is only 31 MPH and that boat should be capabe of at least another 10 MPH. Something is very wrong and I doubt it is the prop, but check it out and let us know.

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Derwd24,

You should be using a 15-1/4" x 19" Mirage Plus or a 14-5/8" x 19" Revolution 4 or maybe even a 14-3/8" x 21" Enertia. A 14" x 21" Offshore would be a good prop for grip as well.

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Thanks Tom. How does the diameter of the prop affect performance? Is there a general rule of thumb?

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There is NOT a "general rule of thumb." Each propeller model will behave differently. It is always best to inquire about specific propeller models and avoid reducing propeller design to simplistic terms like pitch and diameter, although those parameters certainly come into play.

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Tom, Does having a Ttop slow it down that much ? I also had fifty gallions of gas in the tank . I need my speed !!!! Thanks Bob

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A T-top will slow a boat down, but not *that* much. You should make sure your motor is not missing a cylinder (or two.)

Have you checked the compression recently?

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rbritdu,

As a point of reference, Whaler has published speed data for the Outrage V-22 that shows it capable of 50 MPH with a 200 HP motor. This is way back in 1980 before outboards were rated at the prop shaft.

I personally know of several classic Outrage 22 with 225s that will go well in excess of 50 MPH.

Again, I have to point out that if you are only able to get 31 MPH out of your boat, something is seriously wrong with it.

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What about a "heavy" hull with some water in it, when would you start to notice a decrease in performance due to extra weight?

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Weight will begin to affect boat speed immediately, but enough weight to cause a 40 percent reduction in potential boat speed would be VERY obvious when the boat is just floating at rest.

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The V22 sits in the water very nicely. Iam sure there maybe some water in the hull as many boats this age do have some . I will be doing a compression check this evening and I will check the prop size and see where the engine is set at as far as on transom and what holes are being used. I think when I had the engine WOT the tach was around 4k ? But the engine sounded good ? We shall see ... I will report back . Bob

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Ok, The compression was 130 x5,135x1 and spark on all plugs . The plugs where covered with oil all but one was dry. The prop is a stainless Quicksilver 19p - A5#73980 and model? #85539.The engine is mounted on the fourth hole down out of five mount positions. So now any ideas ??? Thanks Bob

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Bob,

Take a look at this thread and see where this engine is mounted.
http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...#post_9176

It is mounted in the 3rd set of holes.
Some people call it the 2nd set of holes up as the top 1st hole the engine would be mounted all of the way down. The last hole would of course be all the way up...
Some engines have 5 holes and others have 4 holes.

Just for reference....

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Bob,

You motor is mounted "one hole up", as we say. That is a normal mounting position.

Likewise a Quicksilver 73980A5 is a perfectly normal (if a bit dated) 14" x 19" cupped three blade stainless steel propeller. The #85539 does not comport with any prop number I know of. Was this stamped into the hub of the prop? If so, it indicates the prop has been worked on. This is not necessarily bad, but it may have been altered from its original blade shape and pitch.

Compression sounds normal but the dry plug does not. You say you confirmed spark on all cylinders?

How clean is the bottom of this boat? Is it trailered or moored?

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Yes there was spark on all six plugs . The boat is trailered at this time but is rough with some bottom paint that is years old . 80% covered maybe . It doesnt look like the bottom was sanded when painted . So Iam wondering if I should paint or not ?? Anyhow thats another story . Would the rough bottom have a large effect on the speed ??Should I spend the money on a new prop ?What should I do about the one dry plug ?Thanks Bob

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Oh yes spark in all cylinders .. Yes the prop looks like it was worked on at on time . Also this boat sat for a while years I guess . Thanks Bob

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Tom Clark do you have anything more to add . Iam not sure which direction to go ?? Bob

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Bob,

I would be concerned about that dry plug. It could mean fuel is not getting to that cylinder and if so, continuing to run the motor like that will score that cylinder and ruin the motor. Have the carburetors been rebuilt recently? One clogged jet can rally mess things up.

Yes, a rough bottom can have a surprisingly negative effect on boat speed, but I do not think it is the entire story here.

It may well be that your profound loss of speed is the net result of several different factors. I am almost sure that you do not have an optimum propeller but it is no good to spend money on a new prop if the motor is not running right. I think it is time to visit a marine outboard mechanic and have the motor checked out.

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Bob, Were you able to confirm that your engine was only turning 4k at WOT?

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Ok here is the latest , It apears that fuel is getting to the cylinder . I replaced the one plug and ran engine up to 2k and took off each wire one at a time.To make sure there was a spark and to see if i could hear the cylinder shut down and than back on each one . It was noticable on three and very noticable on two and not at all on one . So now iam puzzled . If I run like this will I ruin the engine ?? How could this be fixed ? Also yea it runs at 44oo rpms WOT. Iam takin my mechanic on a run with it to see if we could check that bad clyinder with the boat on a plane and pull that wire to see if we see a change ?? Anyother Ideas ???? The carbs where all just rebuilt this winter also . Thanks for the help so far guys ... This is helpful ... Great support !

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If you're getting spark and compression is good, seems it's got to be a fuel delivery issue. So if that's the case, running it without fuel to that cyl also means running it without lube.... Do your carbs have screws that allow you to drain the float bowl? If so, it's worth checking for fuel in the bowl as you may have a stuck float and no fuel in that carb as a result.... If that and the rest of the carb checks out, the reed box in the intake manifold is the next stop, for a stuck or broken reed.

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After reading through the thread I also agree with Derwd24. May be a fuel delivery since you have dry plug. You do have Dry Plug right? or you are not getting spark on one? Has the engine been running this way since the beginning of the season? If so maybe the jets on the carbs were set improperly or the wrong size....:o

As far as drains they are at the bottom of the carbs. On my V6 Merc they were located at the bottom on the sides. Pretty sure on the right side facing the engine. My 175 was a 1985 model might have been different. Could be as simple as water sitting in one of the bowls... You do not need to unscrew them completely, they will drain while partially screwed and they are easy to loose. Place a few paper towels underneath to catch the dripping and any a drain plug that may drop.Good idea to drain them occasionally. I had major water issues when had the Merc early on.

If you not getting spark on one cyl, may be a few things, coils, stator, or even switch box (CDI). If this is electrical I would have it looked at by a tech who would have test equipment.

If there is a suspicion of a broken reed I would not run the engine. If broken pieces get into the crank/block that will cause major damage.

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I will have the reed box checked . My mechanic says just run the boat like it is and I dont fee cumfy about that at all . Any comments ? It s not the way the engine was made to operate . I do realize it is a 1986 but it seems in good shape . I dont think the engine will fix its self . If its not the reeds what else could it be ?? I will be testing the engine this week on the water to check the rpms again but iam sure that it will still be at 4400. Should I find another mechanic ?? Thanks Bob

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Your mechanic is offering BAD advice. It is entirely possible that something simple is holding you motor back but it could also be that that "something" is going to destroy you motor in short order if not resolved. You cannot run a lean cylinder for long.

My advice: Find a new mechanic. Do not use your boat until is is fixed.

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Looking back you said one of your plugs was DRY while the others were coved in oil and carbon? If by DRY you me perfectly clean then your head gasket in cracked and water is being pumped into the cylinder. That is not good nor will the motor last long. I had this happen on my motor. It was performing very sluggishly on one outing so I headed for home and pulled the boat. Once out of the water I pulled the plugs and found one to be perfectly clean. This is a tell tail sign of a head gasket leak. So I pulled the heads off the motor and found that cylinder had begun to overheat. I cracked a ring and lightly scuffed the cylinder wall.

Had I ran the motor any longer I would have caused a catastrophic failure of that cylinder and the motor would have been toasted probably beyond repair. However, since I caught it right away the motor was able to be fixed. Since I had to pull the piston I saw it as an opportunity to put ALL new internals into the motor and because I caught it right away the cylinders only needed to be rehoned instead of overbored. Overboring needs to happen when you have a fixable catastrophic failure and this gives you a much, much shorter life on a rebuild.

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Jeff, Just curious, did your cracked head gasket show up in a compression test as lower numbers for that cyl?

Bob, Don't let the year of the engine influence your overall thinking much, it's more the specifics for each engine. It sounds like your compression is good, so try not to do anything to damage that while you're trying to get to the root of the problem. I'd be cautious about running it much more, if at all, until you can determine what's going on.

Dave

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A crack in the head gasket will show a slight drop in PSI during a compression test but, if you do not have a long history of compression numbers with the motor you would not really notice it.

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Thanks. I ask because I'm going to run a check when I pull my boat next. But given what you went through and the fact that our engines are the same year and HP, it sounds like changing the head gaskets anyway may not be a bad idea even as preventative maintenance. And it may well be worth Bob doing as it'll give him a look at his cylinder walls and also eliminate the leak as a possible issue... If the walls look good, compression is good (the same as the last check) with the new gasket, and the engine is still running the same, seems it's got to be in the front end as a fuel delivery issue?

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Joninnj, sorry missed your question on the posting from July 30 or 31. I still have the same stainless prop. Its a 14.5 X 19 that was re-pitched to a 21. I've been out several times now and pretty much lock in on 52 - 53 MPH and 5600 RPM. I plan on purchasing a new prop down the road with Tom's latest recommendations.

Duf

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Heres an update . I took a mechanic out on the boat yesterday . Ran the boat WOT and still only got 4400rpms. Tested for spark which was ok and dropped the suspect plug connection at WOT and dropped down a bit . So then we tryed to pump the bulb and bingo the RPMs jumped to 5100rpms .So we changed the fuel filter on the engine and will change the diaphram in the fuel pump tomarow . There seems to be alot of spray at the transom so we will move the engine to the first bottom set of holes on the bracket .It is now set at one set of holes up . Iam wondering if this is correct for a 1979V22 Outrage with a 1986 Mariner 200 v6. The engine has a dolfin on it ?? Any help or comments would be great!! Thanks Bob