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I just picked up a nice kicker motor for my Montauk and am not sure if the water pump is working as it should.

This motor does not seem to have the standard weep or pee hole that shows a water flow coming from it but it does have an exhaust port on the right rear of the cowl that I can see and feel exhaust coming from but no water to speak of.

Is there a way to tell if the pump is working on this motor?

Thanks

G

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Gamalot, something seems wrong in your description of the engine. Both Evinrude and Johnson last produced the 9.5 HP in 1973. In 1974, they came out with the new 9.9. I have owned two 9.9s, a 1974 and a 1985.

The 1974 had the same setup that all the older two strokes had...that is, water would mix with the exhaust, and you would see it coming out of the exhaust relief port along with the exhaust once the engine had started. The 1974 had a thermostat that prevented water from flowing until the engine was warm enough to open the thermostat. Cooling water from the open thermostat would exit through the exhaust relief holes on the exhaust housing, and also from the water exit ports just above the anti-ventilation plate. With an engine on the boat, you can't see the lower exit port since it is under water, But if you run it on earmuffs out of the water, you can see it trickle out of the lower ports when the thermostat opens. With a cold engine, it takes a minute or more to warm up to open the thermostat.

The 1985 has the indicator stream or pee hole. (I still have this engine as a kicker on my Revenge 19.) I got curious and looked up the parts listings for 9.9 engines. 1976 was the last year with the old configuration. In 1977 and later models, the 9.9's had the indicator stream.

So if you truly have a 1981 9.9, it should have the indicator stream. If you actually have a 9.5, it is a 1973 or earlier year engine, and likely has only the exhaust relief port indication of cooling water. In this case, you might have to wait until the engine warms enough to open the thermostat (if it even has one??) before you see water coming from the exhaust relief port.

Al

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Thanks Al for they highly informative post. Something was wrong in my post! I relied on the sellers description of the engine being a 1981. Doing some parts searching by the model number which is MQ 11C tells me this motor is a 1965 and certainly not the stated 1981.

It was still a good deal on a very nice engine but my question remains, How to tell if the impeller is working?

It started with one pull in a bucket filled with water well above the intake ports. I did not run it long because I saw no water flowing. It has no pee hole, only an exhaust port large enough to put my pinky in. I do not know if it has a thermostat that needs to warm up before it blows water and I don't think its a good idea to run it too long until I do know. Changing an impeller is easy enough while damaged engines of this age are not worth repairing.

If I have to guess, which I am right now, I will say order the impeller and replace it before running it any more. I doubt the thermostat control was available in 1965 and I think I should be seeing water and exhaust mixed immediately upon start up.

It is hard to blame a widow who is selling off her late husbands gear for getting the year of the motor off by 16 years.

Does this model have a thermostat?

Thanks Gary

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I had a 1980 Johnson of higher horsepower but had the same feature that Alan described. Once hot, a little trickle of water (and for lack of a better description) like you are "peeing" releases. Not at all like the modern motors. No other visual water release. You need to run it long enough to see the feature. I got the service and owners manual from "www.marineengine.com" and I know they have quite the archive. See if you can get the books and study up. The same company sells parts. My 1980 had a thermostat, that is what allowed for the trickle release.

(just saw your year of motor change) I had non thermostat motors in the past (non outboard). They also needed to get hot before you see a water release. Chamber configuration needed to have the water to get hot and expand enough to "overflow".

Garris

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Gamalot/Gary, I don't know if the 1965 9.5 had a thermostat, but I bet it does. The earliest parts listing I could find easily for the 9.5 is year 1968. It shows a thermostat as you can see on this link.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/BRP...parts.html

You should be easily able to check your cylinder block on top for a similar configuration.

Replacing the impeller is the wise thing to do, even if it was replaced a number of times over the years. It is cheap, easy, and will allow inspection of other engine parts. If you do want to experiment, you can run a small outboard for several minutes without a water pump operating while it idles under no load conditions in neutral. The old rule of thumb was that a cylinder head was OK if you could hold your hand against it...being described as uncomfortably hot. When you have to pull your hand away, it is too hot, and that is the shut down point to avoid damage. When I rebuilt outboard engines, I normally would start them without the lower unit installed...since rebuild of the powerhead normally means replacing the lower unit seals and waterpump. However, that said, there is really no reason to take a chance since you will replace the impeller.

Assuming your engine does have a thermostat, it may take 30 seconds for the pump to fill the water jackets in the engine. Normally the thermostat or its housing will have a bleed hole to let the air out of the system and allow it to fill with cooling water when the engine is dry. About a minute is my estimate of the time it will take to open the thermostat...but that is by estimate, not measuring with a stopwatch. If there is no visible flow or spray from the exhaust relief port, you have a cooling issue. Likely the waterpump, but could be the thermostat or clogged water passages.

When the system is working fine, you will get a mist of water coming out of the exhaust relief port when the engine has opened the thermostat...just hold your hand there and it should get wet. As speed is increased, the mist can grow to a stream, but is not as strong as the modern indicators/pee holes. While these engines are old, they are very common, and you might find someone in your area who has one and you can observe how it looks. Also, it may be worthwhile to buy an owners manual which would describe normal operation, including observing water coming from the exhaust relief port.

Now, I don't want to make extra work for you, but you should consider the following repairs/maintenance so you can truly depend on your "new" kicker if you are offshore or in a tight spot and your main engine fails:
1. Replace lower unit seals (prop shaft, drive shaft, shift shaft) If original, they will soon start leaking in water or leaking out oil.
2. Replace ignition points (can do condensers, coils, and spark plug cables, but in my experience, these components don't wear out like the breaker points do.
3. Dissasemble and clean carburetor, even if the engine is running fine. I bet there is sediment and gunk in the bowl, so clogged orifices or passageways are more likely as you go forward in time.
4. Replace all fuel hoses with modern ethanol tolerant hoses. You can use automotive fuel hoses that are ethanol tolerant.
5. Replace fuel pump diaphragm (or entire fuel pump). An engine that old may have had that done, but you don't know when it was done last.

Good luck, and let us know what happens. One of the benefits of a site like this is being able to gather experience at the expense of others' problems. Knowing the outcome completes the narrative.

Al

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Gary, I forgot the obvious: inspect and/or replace the thermostat. If the engine was operated in fresh water, it may look fine inside. If it was in salt, and not flushed after each use, you may have a stuck thermostat and lots of corrosion in the thermostat housing which should be cleaned out.

Al