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I just picked up my 1983 Outrage 18 with the original 90hp Evinrude. After smoking my entire block up yesterday, switching powr packs, bad thermostats and more with the now horribly running engine. I decided to bite the bullet and re-power with and E-Tec 150. I have a quote in central NY for 12,300 with 6 year warranty, free rigging, Constrols, stainless prop etc, and testing on the lake for proper prop and tuning.

This seems like a good deal and the local dealer seems to be a decent shop as well.

Any insight on this being a good price? What does Evinrude include in their promotions of "free rigging"?

I plan to have the engine off and only the electrical box and breaker still attacked.

New steering will be needed as well since it has the original dual cable on it now. Is baystar the way to go?

Thanks everyone
Ed

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Dude...go with the Mecury 150 Four Stroke. Quieter, cleaner. A 3.0 liter torque machine. No adding oil. Greater resale value. Troll controls with the Eco-Meter which helps you find most efficient cruise with all kinds of load variations.

Here's a performance report from someone who put a 150 Merc Four stroke on their Outrage 18.

RPM-Speed-GPH

3000 20.9 3.8
3500 26.5 4.8
4000 32.1 6.4
4500 36.3 8.1
5000 40.0 10.2
5500 44.0 13.7
5760 46.0 14.6 WOT

They reported most efficient was 5.7 mpg at 24 mph at a lazy 3250 RPM. If you look at the head to head third party test, the Evinrudes were 20% less fuel efficient than Optimax and the Optimax is about 20% less fuel efficient than the Merc Four strokes.

[url]
http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/engine-tests/head-to-head/?ID=58&[/url]

I repowered my Outrage 22 with the 150 and get 44 mph and 4-5 mpg efficient from 20 to 30 mph. Gives you an idea of the power of the engine.

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That sounds like a pretty good deal, but you will need to check with the dealer to see what he is including in the "free rigging" as I don't see the promotion listed on the evinrude website. You can also check the Evinrude website and confirm the dealer is authorized to sell and install the outboards.

Baystar is fine for the 150HP, I love my hydraulic steering, best thing other than the engine that i did for the boat.

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The Bay star system is not recommended for your application,IMO. The Bay star system is rated to 150 hp but the Sea star system is a much better steering cylinder in the way/method it is held in place. The 150 hp on your hull makes for a "high performance" rig and the Sea star system will handle the steering loading better. If $$'s are tight, scrimp somewhere else in the boat not the steering/control of the boat. Mount engine all the way up and turn a 17 - 18 pitch wheel.

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Oh yea and no maintenance for 3 years or 300 hours rec use whichever is longer. To winterize the engine, you push a button, literally and ask about the new controls with the RPM tune to fine tune the RPM's and dial it in just right for your specific application. Great for trolling, wish i could add it to my setup. Have the dealer setup the engine for XD100

I know that Teleflex continues to say the Baystar will work up to and including 150HP. I have a sea star on mine but then i have more than a 150HP so i had no choice.

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Thanks folks,

I am not thrilled to drop this much money, but in the long term it is better than purchasing an old used 150 outboard that could crap out on me. The dealer I am hoping to work with just emailed me and he is not certain when he can get a new 150 from the factory. I'm not thrilled that I may lose the rest of the season waiting for a motor, but I am in too deep now to turn back.

Oh well
Ed

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Edmaude,

As someone who has recently re-powered I think you will fall in love with your boat all over again. I know its not cheap but the piece of mind you will get from a new motor is priceless. The price you have been quoted for the ETEC sounds very fair. I vote for the ETEC with SeaStar. I have BayStar and love it but I only have a 90HP. Good luck.

Bob.

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Consider installing traditional cable steering to ease the financial drain. You can always do hydraulic in a year or two.

Do a search here for the best prop recommended and make sure the dealer mounts the engine as recommended by the gurus here. Don't let the dealer push you to go one-hole up.

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Definitely go with the seastar hydraulic steering in my opinion. No sense in having a new engine that is hard to steer, the cost is worth it.

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A two stroke has more torque out of the hole, my 130 hp E-tec jumps on plane, the fuel consumption is good. I have a 18 ft Outrage and cruises 30 mph @ 4000 rpm @ 6 gal an hour. (actually a little less than that) I looked at the Mercs before my purchase but after reviewing the reviews on the internet and the classic two stroke four stroke tug of war my mind was made up. I set mine up for the XD 100 oil. Good luck in your choice.

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Not to start the two vs four debate but you really have to compare engine to engine, two or four stroke. Super charging and displacement and electronic controls have changed all that. What advantages the two strokes had are long gone, the advantages of the four strokes, quiet, fuel efficient, reliability, are even greater.

Take the example above, a 130HP two stroke gets the same mpg as a 150 HP four stroke.

It's why even mfgs. like Yamaha and Mercury with legacy two stroke products don't sell them for new boat production. All new boat mfg.s offer the Yamaha or Merc four strokes not two strokes. If the two strokes made their boats perform better, they'd offer two strokes.

This affects resale value also.

The new Yamaha 200 I4 (or its 150 I4) or the new Mercury 150HP I4 four strokes are the best matches for the Outrage 18. It was the best match for my Outrage 22.

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In my quest for a new outboard I was told that BRP required hydraulic steering on Etecs over 90 hp. I was told this by Dover Marine in Dover NH. I didn't go with an Evinrude or talk to any other Evinrude dealers so I can't say for sure that its true.

As someone who bought a 4 stroke I will tell you that modern 2 strokes have their place. They are usually lighter than 4 strokes of a given hp and produce a much different power curve. For a given displacement a two stroke can produce much more power than a four stroke. I believe it is generally excepted that a four stroke needs 33% more displacement than a two stroke to make the same power. In some applications such as dirt bikes and snowmobiles it is approaching 50% due to the tuned expansion chambered exhaust systems they can use. Suffice to say the two strokes best days may just be coming.

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I can't find any part of the original poster's post that asks anything about the 2-strokes vs. 4-strokes argument, nor am I able to decipher that this person is asking for any advice on what brand or horsepower of engine he should put on his boat. It appears to be clear, at least to me, that this person has already made the decision and is going to install a 150 HP Evinrude E-Tec on his Outrage 18. Whether this is a sound choice or not is not a question that was asked.

Why can't a member/poster of this site make up his/her own mind regarding a brand and horsepower rating of an engine to put on his/her OWN boat without a bunch of "armchair expert's" using his/her post as a springboard to tout their own brand/horsepower decisions? This appears to me to be insulting the original poster by insinuating that he is somehow stupid and/or ignorant.

Think about it.

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Well said Silentpardner! Cheers

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The E-Tec 150 is a great choice for an Outrage 18' if you want it powered at max rated hp for the lightest weight.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...ticle_id=6

There is a reason that many people have to choose a smaller 4 stroke on their 22' or other models, as the 4 strokes sometimes can be much heavier in the same given HP.
Look at the weights here and also the CARB3 rating. Some of the 4 strokes aren't even as clean rated as the 2 strokes. So, saying that all 4 strokes are cleaner then new 2 strokes is a False statement.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=30

The 22's are rated for max of 240 hp.
The 18's are rated for max of 150 hp.
Plenty of discussions here on what people think the least amount of hp is right for them.
I don't even list the 150 hp on the 22' page for a reason.

It is a common opinion here that all motors made today are good choices.
Depends on what you need, where your local dealer(s) are located, etc.

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Silentpardner,

I hope your diatribe wasn't pointed at my post regarding a 2 stroke vs 4 stroke. I was just trying to reaffirm the OP's original choice of power which I believe is a fine one. I also agree with your point about some people needing to tell everyone what is right for them.

Cheers.

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Thanks for all the insight, but I am set on the E-tec.....

I reached out to approx 6 dealers, 3 of which are platinum level as well. I plan to put a deposit down tomorrow to even have a shot of using the boat in late September it seems. Price is all over the place, but I am waiting for the written quote from the original dealer I had started with

I am waiting for a price on the Seastar system as well, which I imagine I will go with

Ed

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I installed Seastar steering on my Outrage 18 last year, and am very happy with it overall.

One suggestion which was made, after I bought my helm, was to go with the higher volume pump, for fewer turns lock to lock. I have the 1.7, but do wish I'd gone for the 2.0 or 2.4. With the 1.7, steering effort is very light, but it takes a lot of rotation for slight change in course. I'm turning the wheel as much as a 1/4 turn for a slight course change at 30mph.

See this thread for more detail: http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...rowstart=0

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An idea that has been proven to be obsolete. The highest HP to displacement outboard on the market is the 100 cubic inch 200 HP Mercury Verado four stroke. A 200HP two stroke Yamaha is 158 cu inches as is the 200 HP Evinrude two cycle. . An example of the results of supercharging and electronic controls.

Also a bit misstated since power is HP and a 200HP engine is a 200HP engine. The power is identical The torque curves might look different which is probably what is meant.

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Edmaude- sounds great and I'm sure you'll really like what choice(s) you made for your new set-up. Keep us posted on the project. I have done all this twice with two different boats and enjoyed every minute doing it. Did you price out a 135 HO, cranks out about 148 hp?

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Agree great choices Edmaude!

Eagles if you would like to debate two vs four stroke, start a new thread.

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Chuckle....that is what I said to the person who was promoting the two and four cycle, posting obsolete info in regard to modern outboards.

The best in class for 200-150 right now are the new tech I4's from Mercury and Yamaha.

The new 150 Mercury I4 is the perfect engine for the Outrage 18, four stroke or two stroke by any metric, torque, efficiency, sound level, weight, price and resale value. The Yamaha I4 would be second and, a bit overpowered in my view, the 200 I4 Yamaha as third choice.

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That sounds like it is your opinion.
Others here have completely different opinions.

The E-Tec 150 weighs almost 40 pounds less than the Merc 150.
Who says you will get better resale value for having any particular brand on the back of any boat?
Nothing is guaranteed that I can see.

This thread has gotten out of hand from the original posters question and you were the one that led it off course from the beginning.
In the future, please keep on topic as I will have to delete anything that gets off course again.
Thanks.

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This is totally not true. BRP does not specify the type of steering to be used on their outboards. Sounds like the dealer was trying to sell you an upgrade.

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Kamie,

I agree.
Where are all these people getting so much information from?
3rd party tests?
People trying to sell jackplates, steering, etc.
4 strokes have better resale then 2 strokes or visa versa?

Reminds me of that commercial on TV where the girl says they can't say anything on the Internet that isn't true. As she walks away with a French model who can't even speak french.
I think that was an AllState commercial.

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Kamie,

I was seriously considering an ETEC before I repowered. The dealer who I mentioned by name stated that I would have to upgrade to hydraulic steering if I decided on going with a 115 over a 90hp. He said it was a BRP requirement. You are correct he may have been trying to sell me something.

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If this is true, why do 62 boat manufacture's offer E-Tec outboards as an option on their new boats? Why do some of those same manufactures also offer Mercury Optimax as optional outboard? Any outboard manufacture wants to sell as many outboards as they can, they will sell them on new boats or the repower market. It's all about moving the most number of units and offering the customer choices.


Ed,
When you pick up the boat, make sure the dealer shows you how to winterize the boat. This is used not only to winterize the boat but also if you ever get air in the oil lines. My remote oil tank is in the stern of my Outrage. If I swamp the boat, which i have done a couple times the oil tank sloshes around and sometimes gets air bubbles in the line causing a low oil alarm. The quick cure, run the winterize, air cleared from the lines, problem solved, fishing trip saved.

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Bob,

I hope you see now that it doesn't make sense.
There are many high powered motors out there with the standard cable steering.
Many 150 motors have cable steering.

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Few if any offer Evinrudes as standard. So none are in dealer stock with Evinrudes or any two cycle, Mercury or Yamaha. Boat builders don't sell the two cycles of any outboard mfg. So trying to resell into a market that has gone four cycle is going to put the seller at a disadvantage for several reasons, need to add oil, noise, mpg, commonly available parts and service. The boat industry went that away a while ago.

But a two cycle could very well be the best solution for a repower just not in the case of the Outrage 18 where Merc and Yamaha have just come out with the big bloc I4's.



A lot of that going around <grin>...though I did post some reliable performance numbers for the Outrage 18 with the Merc.

And several of us (Duf, myself, the Outrage 18 owner) have recent experience with the Merc 150 I4. In the case of Duf (an Outrage 25) and myself (an Outrage 22) getting exceptional performance in what many would have (mistakenly) predicted was under powering out boats. Instead we are getting superior numbers.

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Joe that's "DISINFORMATION" and it is abundant out there in computer land.
Kamie you beat me in answering the steering quote! Sometimes I just have to shake my head in wonderment.

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Guys,

I shopped around to get some more detailed numbers with SeaStar being installed and I am way the hell over budget at this point. Here is what I have on the table for out the door pricing with full rigging, stainless prop, system check gauges, binnacle control, battery, fuel lines from tank to engine w/ new filter, XD100 oil etc.

14,863 ( original platinum level dealer in NY and also claimed he would upgrade gauges to ICommand for this price)
-I am concerned that this is too good of a deal based on what other dealers have told me.

15,228 ( central hudson river NY dealer)

16,600 ( McCarthy's marine in NJ which is an old time Whaler dealer and has the engine in stock) I was hoping they would get more aggressive, but seems like they are not

I also called a dealer in NJ near where I live that has a leftover 2012 in stock, but has no interest in selling it for anything less than full retail, which is pathetic in my opinion.

How do these prices look compared to any members that have recently purchases this motor?

Please no telling me to go Mercury again

Thanks,
Ed

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I think it would be better to get the total broken out:

Engine
Prop
Gauges
Binnicle
Harnesses

Removal cost
Install and water test cost

I hate bundled cost estimates. They are almost worthless since their is no detail. How do you really know you are getting the same items in the bids.

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EDIT:

Removed off topic answer that the poster does not want to hear.

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I have to chime in. BRP owns one boat brand, Seadoo. Brunswick Corp., owner of Mercury Marine, owns over 25 brands of boats. Seem that arguing that more new boats come with Mercury power than Evinrude is an idiotic argument.

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I agree with Phil, get the breakdown. For the 14,863 you should have the 5 year warranty, all the goodies, including iCommand digital gauges, fuel module, as well as Seastar installed. The seastar is $750 but install should be minimal since they are totally derigging the boat. I see he is including a battery, does your current one not meet spec's?
the engine is 12,300
I paid 1500 for BRP rigging (included binnacle, 2 gauges, engine harness, NME200 network, oil tank, misc stuff)
battery $100
Seastar $750
prop $100
oil $60

add to that, removal and rerigging and you have a fair deal. Just confirm which gauges your getting, you need at least 1 3 inch, not sure if your getting any 2 inch to fill holes. Depending on what GPS you have, I like the fuel module that gives me fuel flow data as well. My Garmin 541 does not transmit NME200 data correctly so I got the Lowrance GPS module. See if he can throw in some of the option stuff like fuel module. It never hurts to ask.

In general he is giving you a great deal, the one thing that is important is to be happy with the deal your getting. If your not happy, then you will always have that in the back of your mind. As for the over budget part, consider this over the life of your boat and believe me, the first time you hop on the boat with the new engine, turn the key and it roars to life, you will forget about the budget.

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Thanks Kamie,

You nailed it with what is being included at the 14863. All the prices I got for installing the Seastar system were betweek 1200-1600 parts and labor.

Hope to lock this down tomorrow AM finally

Ed

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I would agree as well with the 14,863. And do get a break down of what you're getting or what's being done. A very trueism about being happy with the dealer, not only for boats but for anything.

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I just put an etec 150 on my 18 outrage. I also had the sea star system steering put on at the same time. Those prices sound right (@15k). I would pick final dealer on price AND service/convenience. There is a reason for this...

You have an old whaler. Even though they replace fuel lines,etc and drain tank (my dealer did this as part of install), things can happen. I had a fuel restriction issue that was infrequent and unpredictable. I brought in once, they couldnt replicate the issue when they test ran and diagnostics were clear. I had them test vac on engine side of racor and it tested 1-1.5. They guessed it was temp blockage that had made it to filter and since i had changqed the racor since initial problem, then all was good.

Two days later, I was out on the water and it happened again. I turned and steered my boat to my dealer while experiencing issue and they diagnosed/fixed on the spot. I didn't even have to trailer her. I got boat back two hours later. That would have been a nightmare if I had to trailer her two hours away and lose boat for weekend or longer. Plus, it was infrequent and not predictable and etec computer was not throwing codes so laptop was useless. With issues like that, having dealer close and wanting to keep you happy are important.

You will love the 150 etec /18 outrage/sea star combo.... Good choice

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I met with the dealer and put a deposit down on Saturday. These guys are not on the lake we use, but they are a 25 minute drive. He is looking at a late September completion since the motor is not even manufactured yet.

I am planning to tackle the vent line and fuel filler line replacement this coming weekend

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Looks like the engine is going on the boat next week so I am scrambling to lift the floor, replace the fuel fill and vent lines this Saturday.

Can someone guide me as the best prop?

From what I can gather I should go three holes up on the mount and a 18 or 19 rebel prop

Thanks for all the feedback, I can't wait to get back on the water

Ed

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Yes..mount etec three holes up. Mine was mounted two up and it needs to be raised. I just haven't brought back in to get it done yet. I have 17 viper, but I think after getting my etec raised I may need a 19 if I were to stay with a viper. I'm considering a rebel for better mid range fuel Econ /planing so a 17 rebel is what I'm thinking for mine. I'll keep the 17 viper as a spare.

I've been told by gurus on this and other sites that the 17 rebel and a 19 viper should have comparable max rpm.

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3 holes up and try the 17p Rebel. make sure the dealer will let you change as long as the prop isn't dinged up. If the engine is set correctly, that should put the AV plate out of the water and put you at 5500-5600 RPM's at WOT which is right where you want to be.

Now for some advice for the first time you hit the throttle and go to get up on plane. First have everyone else on the boat move forward and hang on. You should have one hand on the throttle and one hand on the wheel, feet braced. The engine has a ton of low end torque and will knock you back the first couple of times until you get used to it. You will also feel like you just got a new boat.

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Ed,

And don't forget to clip the Safety Lanyard to your vest or somewhere else on your body in case you go rolling backwards.

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Thanks guys,

After the insane amount of $$$$ I am into with this boat I will be careful when I punch the throttle

Ed

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yea it looks very un-cool to go flying out the back

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I repowered this year with a new 150 Etec on my 18 Outrage. Compared to the old Johnson, it is like having a new boat and my kids will all confirm that you need to hold on when first hitting the throttle. I am very pleased with my decision. I mounted my engine 3 holes up. I have a 15" Ballistic SS prop. I hit 5500/5600 RPMs WOT when running in salt water and a little higher (5700/5800) when running in fresh water.

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I finally got the boat back today and spent about an hour on the water this afternoon. I am blown away on how great this engine is compared to the old V4 2 strokes I am used to. It was pretty windy with white caps on the lake and I am pleased on how well the Outrage handles rough water compared to my old Guardian 17.

I had the dealer mount it three holes up with a 14x17 Viper prop. I went right from the dealer to the ramp and do not have my GPS hooked up yet to confirm speed. The performance is amazing though. They upgraded me to the I-Command guage which is also a really nice feature.

I hope to update my personal page this week. I also noticed that for 2014 the cowling has new graphics as well which look good with the Red Whaler lettering

Thanks again for the insight everyone

Ed