---

I have a 1974 Katama that I love, but the 1984 70hp Johnson we've had on it is worn out (very low compression), unreliable, and needs replacing. I used to be an East Coast salt water boater, but now I live in Minnesota and boat on lakes. The 70hp Johnson seemed perfect for the boat (much better than the 55hp it had when we bought it). Outboard motors seem to have come a long way in the past 30 years: lots of quiet 4 stroke engines; Evinrude's new E-Tec motors (which a marina guy I know says are as efficient and reliable as a 4 stroke, if not more so). I've never bought a used motor, and am unsure whether that's the best way to go compared to buying one new. I plan to do some skiing and toy-pulling behind this boat, but that's not the primary thing we'll be doing.

I'd love to get some feedback about what my options are, and trade-offs between 2/4 stroke, used/new, and recommended hp/models.

Thanks!

---

We have a list of Current Engine Choices in our article link on the left sidebar.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...p?cat_id=4

Here are the choices for the 16/17 models.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...ticle_id=5

My recommendation:
If you want a 90, get the E-Tec 90 @ 320 pounds
If you want a 70, get the Yamaha F70 @257 pounds

However, it also may depend on what local dealers you have so you can get better service if you need it.

---

Hi Brooke and welcome to WhalerCentral!

The choice today is not between two and four stroke but rather between new technology and old. Both fuel injected 4 strokes and modern direct injection 2 strokes are excellent, and much easier to live with than older motors in term of ease of starting, noise, and smell, and they get much better mileage, particularly when trolling. It would not be surprising to find you'll go two to three times as far on a tank of gas.

I think Joe has the choice right - if you're good with 70 horses, go with the Yamaha F70LA, and if you want a little more oomph the eTec 90 is a good option. With the eTec you may find you can repurpose your existing controls, which will reduce the cost difference between the two.

Finally I will mention that both manufacturers run promotions in the early fall, so it may be worth living with what you have just a bit longer. When I bought my F70 I got double the warranty, for example - not that I've needed it but it does give peace of mind.

Tim

---

Joe, Tim -- Thanks very much for your feedback. I've got a couple follow-up questions.

-- If I wanted a little more pop than the Yamaha F70LA, what about the eTec 75?

-- I have heard that the eTec's are easier to maintain than a 4-stroke outboard. Something about not needing oil changes and tuneup as frequently. True?

-- Where do you recommend people should buy new outboards? There are tons of marinas and boat places in MN (highest boat-per-capita of any state, apparently). Are there "dealers", like automobiles? Are there large price differences depending on where you buy?

Thanks,
Brooke

---

Put an E-TEC 90 on it and you'll be very happy.

---

To save a few dollars, yes, several members here have put E-Tec 75hp on their 16/17' models.
It is however the same weight as the 90hp model so keep that in mind.

Any good Evinrude dealer is probably your best choice.
Ask around for advice and information about their reputation.

---

Brooke, with the E-Tec 75 being 60 pounds heavier than the F70 performance wiil probably be about the same. E-Tecs are certainly marketed as lower maintenance as you don't have to change the oil but then the E-Tec requires you to keep the two stroke oil filled. Once you get past the marketing hype they are probably similar.

I would not buy an E-Tec 75 for that boat - go with the 90. They weigh the same, are the same size, will get virtually identical mileage, but the 90 will do so at a higher speed, and give you extra power for carrying a heavy load or whatever. And over the life of the motor the additional cost is trivial.

Tim

---

Total hog wash. I recommend the E-Tec 75 if you want to save $500-$2000 and do not care about the last few MPH at wide open throttle (WOT). Other than that, the E-Tec 75 is the same as the E-Tec 90.

An E-Tec 75 will completely blow the doors off a Yamaha F70 during acceleration. For those who have not experienced an E-Tec, you don't know how unlike a convention two stroke the E-Tec is.

---

Take a look at the Suzuki df90a if you like to save some money. Also low weight and no timing belt that requires expensive changes. I also like the E-tech but at least in Scandinavia the Suzuki is much cheaper.
70,80 and 90 has the same weight.

---

THe E-Tech is an awesome technology and I would put a 90 on that hull and have all the power you will every want. The E-Tech is no oil changes for 3 years or 300 hours whichever is longer, and they really mean it. You can hit WOT as soon as you hit the water and run all day, hardly burning any gas. To winterize the engine, push a button, count to 10 and walk away, it's that easy.

---

Thanks to all for you very informative feedback. I'm looking into going with the E-TEC 90, or the Yamaha F90.

Thanks again.
Brooke

---

One final question: I'm finding large pricing differences (up to $1.5k) between dealers. Is that common? For example, for the E-TEC I've been quoted between $8,000 and $9,627 (both with controls and installation). Do those prices sound right?

Brooke

---

I can't speak to the overall amount, but that variation between dealers is normal. Find the dealer you like best, and the cheapest one, then bring the cheap one's price to the one you like best and ask them to match it, or at least get close.

Tim

---

I know its been said...Get yourself the 90 etec I have a 2009 with over 500 hours on it and its benn flawless..just be careful when you put the throttle down it will push you back in your seat..go from 2500rpm to 4500 rpm in a flash..All while talking in normal voice tones

---

Okay, so I ordered the E-Tec 90 for my 1974 Katama and the boat place called today and said that the motor does not fit a hull "that old" and that I would need to buy a "Jack Plate" in order to attach the motor to the transom. Does that sound right to you? I heard from a lot of Whaler users who have the 90 E-Tec on their 17' hull and no one mentioned the need to use a jack plate.

Thanks,
Brooke

---

Tell them to drill the "Green" holes.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=82

---

Joe,

Thanks for your speedy response.

The guy at the shop was pretty adamant that there was absolutely no way to install this motor on my boat without a jack plate. I know that you're right and he's wrong, but how can I convince him of that? Is there a number at Boston Whaler he can call to get straightened out about this?

Thanks,
Brooke

---

No.

Just print out that diagram and tell him to drill the Green holes as long as the standard top holes are where they are supposed to be according to that drawing.

Some installers just don't get it.

---

I think this installer just wants to sell me a jack plate.

So as long as the top bolts (from the previous motor?) are 1 7/8" below the top of the transom, then the Green holes should work with the 90 E-Tec, is that it?

Thanks again for your help.

---

Put the E-TEC 90 on without the jack plate. I had to show my installer the diagram and his response was that I would only be able to mount the motor either 2 or 3 holes up.. I took the 2 holes up option but should have opted for three.

---

Brooke,

Yes. If your top holes are standard according to the drawing, then just drill the green holes.

The top holes can vary from 1 7/8 to 2" from the top but the green holes are drilled 6 1/2 down on center from the top holes per the drawing.

---

I showed the diagram to my installer. He said that the problem is that the lower bolts would have to be lag bolts, not through bolts, and that Bombardier won't warrantee the motor unless it is fastened with 4 through bolts. Therefore the jack plate (approx $300) is the best way to go. What do you think?

Thanks,
Brooke

---

That guy isn't looking at the diagram.

Those Green holes are thru bolted.
You might talk to a different installer who can read diagrams.
Or, have him measure your blind holes now which are 6 inches down. Add 1/2 inch and you can see that the thru bolts will still be in the splashwell properly.

The standard Red holes cannot be drilled as you cannot use thru bolts with the red holes.

The Yellow holes can be a problem also with thru bolts.

However, there is NO problem using thru bolts if he drills the GREEN holes.

Several members here have their motor mounted using the Green holes and thru bolts.

My only and last suggestion to you is to INSIST on him drilling the Green holes.
It's your boat and you are buying the motor from them.
Then tell him to mount the motor 2 holes up using all 4 thru bolts. The upper 2 and the lower 2 green holes.
If he doesn't know what 2 holes up is, print this and take it to him.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...cle_id=106

---

I would not be making an expensive engine purchase from a delaership that is that dumb. It makes you wonder what else they don't know when it comes to service, etc.

---

Good point Larry.

Brooke,
Print this thread out and have the installer read these posts.
Maybe he will think twice about helping you properly.
I'm sure he, or the owner of that establishment, doesn't want a reputation of not mounting the motor properly and installing it the way the owner wants.

Just a thought.

---

I just visited the boatyard. Heres the deal. First, the transom is 22", not 20" as I had thought. Second, the green holes already exist from my previous motor. In order to use the green holes on the bottom, the top bolts would have to go through the fourth (lowest) of the four top bolt holes on the motor mount. That would put the prop unacceptably high and lead to performance issues. What do you think?

---

That seems impossible.
If the green holes are 6 1/2 inches down (On Center) from the top holes, then the top bolts would go thru the 3rd hole in the motor bracket, not the 4th.
There is nothing wrong with the mounting bolts in the 4th hole either if that is what you already have.
Many people recommend mounting this motor all the way up which is called 3 holes up.

You need to measure the transom straight up and down, not at an angle flat on the transom. Measure like this |
not like this \
You will find it is what is referred to a 20 inch transom like all the rest of the 16/17 Whalers have.

---

Joe,

I measured the transom straight down to the bottom of fiberglass keel immediately below the drain hole. It was exactly 22". I measured 3 times because I was not expecting that measurement. I also measured 6.5" above the top of the bolt slot on the bottom of the mounting bracket. That put me right in the middle of the 4th (bottom) hole. I tried to get it to the 3rd hole, but assuming a .25" bolt in the bolt slot, it just doesn't make it past the 4th hole.

The confusions I've had with the installer were due mostly to imprecise language. For example, "old boat" = non-standard transom height; "don't want to use lag bolt" = in order for the propeller to be low enough, the motor would have to be mounted in one of the top two hole slots, and therefore the bottom bolts would have to be below the green and yellow holes; etc.

I measured everything multiple times with my own tape measure. Very surprised.

---

As Joe points out, the transom is 20" not 22". It's the height, not the distance along the transom, that you measure.

Your "green holes" are not the green holes on our drawing. Go back and remeasure.

Do not make this more complicated than it need to be. It is really very simple.

---

I guess I give up.
You drill the green holes in the boat regardless of what the motor or bracket on the engine has. No need to measure the slot. Every motor is standard today and only the Merc has 5 upper mounting holes while the rest have 4.

Your boat is no different then all the rest of the 16/17' hulls that many people mounted new motors on including the E-Tec.

Old Boat?
These were made until 2002.
What is considered old?

Good Luck and hope it works out for you.

If you can post some photos and some measurements, then maybe some of us can help you further. Otherwise, you are at the mercy of your installer.

---

Just to be clear: I did NOT measure the distance from the top holes to the top of the transom (should be 1 7/8" according to the diagram). I only measured the distance between the top holes and the bottom holes (both were created for my former motor, a 70hp Johnson); that distance is exactly 6.5". So when I say that the "Green holes" were already drilled, all I know is the distance been the top holes and bottom holes is equivalent to the top holes and Green holes and the diagram (the holes in my boat were drilled back in the mid-1980's when the previous motor was installed in Hampton Bays, NY). I also can't vouch for the judgment that the E-Tec 90 mounted up on its #4 slot would be problematic for this boat. The boatyard guys treated this as common sense; a propeller mounted that high would be at risk for cavitation. That conclusion is based, in part, on the assumption of a 22" transom.

Not sure what else to say about the transom measurement. If one were to put a lead weight on a string, and line up the bottom of the weight with the bottom of the rear keel, as gravity would dictate, then the distance from the bottom of the weight to the section of string as it passes the horizontal portion of the boat above the drain plug (transom) is, according to my Stanley measuring tape, 22". This is not what I wanted to find. I have no way of explaining it. The hull was made in 1974; not sure if Whalers had a different transom then. I'm guessing that if they did, you guys would be all over that.

So these are the measurements we're dealing with here. I realize they don't match up with what you (or I) expect from 17' Whalers. With respect to the need for a jack plate, the only fact that would militate against its use in this case would be the knowledge that mounting a 2014 E-Tec 90 on its 4th hole on a transom that measures 22 vertical inches would not cause cavitation problems on a 1974 BW hull.

Thanks for your comments and help. Apologies for presenting such a puzzling case.

Brooke

---

Again, that just can't be.
You seem to not be measuring from center of one hole to center of other hole.
What you have from those days is the blind hole which is only 6 inches center to center and are wider apart then the green holes.
You will have to fill those old black lower blind holes and drill the green holes 6 1/2 inched down on center and 9 7/8 inches wide from center to center.
Your lower black blind holes are 10 3/4 wide center to center.

Don't measure from the top of one hole to the bottom of another hole.
ALL measurements are taken from the center of the holes.
Note: all holes are 1/2 inch in diameter which is the mounting bolt size, 1/2 inch bolts.


No mystery at all.
All transoms are 20 inches regardless of what anyone wants to measure.
This is a know fact from Boston Whaler. 20 inch transom for a 20 inch Long Shaft motor.
No mystery.
No more need to measure the transom as everyone already knows it is 20 inches.
Just measure the holes and get them right "ON CENTER" according to the drawing.
You will find that your lower black holes are the blind holes that will need filling as they are not in the correct place.
They are close to the Green holes but they will not work at all.

Like I mentioned before, a photo of the transom and the holes will tell us more.
It will also tells us if this is really a Whaler because I am now beginning to have my doubts due to the measurements.

---

If you look for a recent thread posted by me "Raising motor on transom" it will give you info about my recent experience.

---

mtown,

Here is your thread:
http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...d_id=17750

Can you post a photo on your personal page of the inside of the transom with the new holes?

Here is a photo of my prior 1978 model.
There is ample room to drill the holes 1/2" further down then the blind holes that are in the photo.
http://users.sisqtel.net/jkriz/Montau...inside.jpg

If absolutely necessary, you could grind a washer flat on the bottom or bend it according to this Whaler drawing.
http://www.whalercentral.com/images/B...t10-84.png

---

Brooke
Please supply the following measurements
Top of the transom to the center of the top bolt holes?
distance between the top bolt holes, center to center
distance between your lower two holes, center to center
top of the transom to the center of your lower holes


To measure center to center, measure from the outside of one hole to the inside of the other hole, like this

|(-)-----------|( )

As Joe said, a photo will be helpful. It is possible that mounting holes for the old outboard were done wrong, but worked for that engine.
With the correct prop you can mount the e-tec 3 holes up with no issues.

---

I have the holes according to the drawing with the green holes and it works perfectly fine. See last picture on my personal page.
It will work! Like everybody else says here. (Note , mine is only mounted one hole up and even that works)

Are you sure that the center of the upper holes are 1 7/8" from the top of the transom, i.e. did the upper bolts go through the top holes in the engine bracket (if the bracket was all down to the top of the transom)?

I also put a stainless steel plate on the inside (and outside) to distribute the load. I have a pdf-drawing if anyone would like to have (but dimensions are metric though)

---

Got my Whaler back today. I remeasured the transom and, as before, it clocks in at 22" (21.75" to be exact). 20" barely gets you to the top of the drain. See attached pics. I'd love to see similar measurements from those of you with 16 Whalers. Also attached are full pics of the boat.

Brooke

P.S. How do you attach pics?

---

Just put a link to your photos like I've done in several posts above.

---

file:///C:/Users/macalester/Desktop/1974%20Whaler%20Transom%202.jpg (copy link into browser)

---

You would need to have your photos posted somewhere like photobucket, imageshack, etc..
Photos won't link from your computer to the Internet.

---

My 1966 measures 22" from top to bottom of keel, but as Tom has said this is a 20" transom. Forget that measurement and follow the pattern they are referring you to. I have raised mine to third hole.

---

Thank you, mtown, for your message. It explains a lot.

When I first reported that my Whaler has a 22" transom, people on this thread responded with the helpful advice that if I measured my transom properly (vertically not horizontally; straight down not at an angle) I'd see that it is, in fact, 20". But no matter how I measured (it never occurred to me to measure diagonally or horizontally since motors are mounted vertically), the transom came out to 22", not 20. The mechanics at the shop and I didn't know what to make of the certainty among posters that my transom was 20" when, with the boat in front of us, no measurement we tried came within 2" of that length. I knew in my heart that the probability that Joe and others were wrong was essentially nil; still, it's difficult to ignore facts in front of your face and take it on faith that somehow that transom is 20". I began to think that Joe was correct in thinking that perhaps my boat is not an authentic Boston Whaler.

Your post clear it up. We were both correct: the transom measures 22", but motors should be mounted as if it were 20".

Sadly, it's too late now and the motor has been mounted with CMC jack plate. So I'm out $300 for a plate I don't need.

Question is what to do now.

I took the boat out yesterday and oh-my-god is that motor amazing. When I finally found water calm enough to put it to full throttle I was blown away -- literally almost -- by the speed and acceleration. Frankly, I don't see a reason to travel at that speed on a boat, other than for the pure thrill, which is substantial. To those who urged me to get this motor: bless you. It's quiet, clean, and a monster at full throttle.

However, there are issues that, I think, are related to the mounting. Specifically, I think the motor may be too low. For example, at full speed I can barely turn the wheel. It was difficult to turn the wheel when my Johnson 70 at full throttle; this is 10 times harder. Also, the motor looks very low: when getting up on a plane the back of the hood appears to almost be in the water. Getting up on a plane itself feels weird. I need to use one trim (low) to get up on a plane gradually (it was too choppy to accelerate quickly), and a different trim (higher) to cruse comfortably. Finally, and I'm not sure if this is diagnostic, but looking back at the motor while planing I saw a lot of water bouncing off the rear of the boat (not sure how to explain this; it appeared as if water was somehow being thrown against the back of the boat even though the boat was moving forward at high speed). My only explanation is that the water must have first bounced off something else (the motor?) and then bounced off the boat. Seems that a motor mounted too low might explain a few of these issues.

Presumably the jack plate permits relatively easy vertical adjustment. Question is, what is the correct height for the motor and how can I estimate what that is? With the motor trimmed all the way down: the "chin" of the motor is 6.5" above the top of the transom, and the bottom point of the motor is 39.5" below the top of the transom. On my trailer this puts the skeg just 2.5" off the road which is lower than it was with my previous motor, though I'm not sure that's an apples-to-apples comparison.

Any suggestions on how to estimate the right height for the motor? Unfortunately, the distance between my "boatyard" and the water is 10's of miles, so small-increment trial-and-error is awkward.


Two seemingly unrelated issues are:

1. The control lever (new) has large areas of movement in which no change in rpm occurs. From a slow forward speed I can push the lever down two to three inches with no response from the motor. The problem is that the huge range of rpm variance is now represented by a small range of lever movement making it difficult to make minor adjustments in rpm at the higher speeds. Presumably, this is a simple adjustment the mechanics can make.

2. While the motor is quiet during idle and low rpm, the boat vibrates much more than it did before. It's not just that the railing rattles at one rpm, and something else rattles at a slightly different speed; you can feel the hull vibrate under your feet at all rpm Perhaps this is just the effects of a larger motor on the boat, but I thought I'd raise it in case you have ideas about how if might be fixed.

Again, many thanks to those of you who have contributed to this thread.

Brooke

---

Brooke,

See the 2nd and 3rd to the last photos here.
http://www.whalercentral.com/infusion...r_id=27666

You want the Anti-Ventilation plate about 2 inches above the bottom of the hull and adjust up or down from there if necessary.

---

always trim your motor so there is no pull on the helm. It is easy to get that point, just adjust the tilt or trim so you can remove your hands from the wheel. If that is causing your prop to vent then something is wrong.

---

Brooke,
What holes on the engine did they use when they mounted the engine to the jackplate? What is the setback of the jackplate?

---

Thanks for the replies.

Kamie, they bolted the motor all the way down. The jack plate also looks like it's in the lowest possible position.

Brooke

---

A pic taken from sideways of the AV plate in relation to the keel will eliminate all the guessing. As said by J. Kriz, the plate should be higher than the lowest point of the hull, by anywhere from 1.5 to 3.5 inch.

---

I assume you got the CMC manual jackplate, with probably 4 inches of setback. Crank up the jackplate until the AV plate is 2 inches above the keel or as high as the jackplate will go and then run some prop tests. What prop is on the engine now? To test the prop, hit WOT and trim out until she cavitates then record your RPMs. My guess is that the engine is buried, the jackplate is probably all the way down and with the engine mounted all the way down on the jackplate it's worse than mounted all the way down on the transom. The height of the motor above the transom doesn't matter, what matters is the height of the AV plate above the keel. That is the measurement you need to care about.

The vibration may fix itself if you get the motor set correctly. At idle what are the RPM's?

---

The CMC plate is manual, with 5.5" setback. I opted not to get a new tach with this motor so I can't report anything about rpm without getting engine reports. Depending on cost, I think I'll ask them to install a tach while they're making the other adjustments. Can anyone recommend a basic model?

Thanks,
Brooke

---

I though the 90's required a basic system check gauge that usually has a tach? If not just get whatever base model they have, because without a tach it's hard to determine what the engine is doing. Sound is a very unreliable indicator of RPM's or performance.

You can adjust the engine yourself with a friend and some simple tools. If your taking it back to the dealer, you want them to mount the engine on the jackplate so when the jackplate is at it's lowest point, the engine AV plate is 1- 1 1/2 inchs above the keel. My guess is that they won't be able to do that because of the setback, so in that case they should mount the engine as high has they can, probably 3 holes up which will probably leave the AV plate at or still below the keel.

On my 18 with the 8 inch setback on the jackplate, that means the engine is mounted 3 holes up and I still have to crank the jackplate up 3 inches to get the right height. On my personal page, 4 photo from the bottom, that is how your engine should look when your on plane and it's mounted at the correct height.