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I understand 200 hp is the max on a 20' Outrage 1988. So I can use twin 100 Yamaha.? They weight 370lb and 374lb. I trying to get the fastest engine I can get without enjury the transom.
Thank you again and hope you enjoy the hollidays.

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Look at the 200 hp choices here:
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...cle_id=110

Also look at the 90 hp choices here:
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...ticle_id=5

Does anyone make a 100 hp at this time?

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It looks like both Yamaha and Suzuki offer their inline 4, 4 strokes in other markets at the 100hp level, but not for North America.

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If you are looking for speed, a single 200 hp with a 8 hp kicker will be less weight and a lot less money.

I am guessing you want twins for open ocean cruising. Make sure you have the right propellers so you can plane off on only one engine.

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750 pounds of outboard on the transom of a 1988 Outrage 20? No way. Don't do it. You will end up spending a huge amount of money for a boat that is always taking water over the transom and tends to porpoise.

A pair of yamaha F100s will not be nearly as fast as a single 200 HP outboard, which will cost quite a bit less money as well as get better fuel mileage and be more reliable.

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Drop a E-Tec 200HP at 433# and go for it. Skip the 4-stroke extra weight and stick with a two stroke. Even a Merc 225HP at 520# would be a better option than a 4 stroke.

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Fastest 200HP engine for an Outrage 20? My list would be:

1. Mercury 200 Optimax Pro XS (EDIT: this will not work as it is only available with a 20" shaft)
2. Mercury 200 Optimax
3. Evinrude 200 HO
4. Verado 200 supercharged 4-stroke
5. Soon to be available new Yamaha 200 4-stroke.

Although the Evinrude is the heaviest mentioned, all are fairly close in weight around 515# in 25" shaft length.

This is a hp range where twin "anythings" are pretty heavy because of the 3 star technology required. To get close to the speed of a single 200, you could go with twin Mercury or Evinrude 2-stroke DFI 115's, but weight would be around #750# total.

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Larry,

Take a look at that chart again.
The Evinrude 200 HO weighs 503 pounds for the 25 inch shaft.
ALL of the other motors you list are heavier then 503 pounds for the 25 inch shaft model.

So, the Evinrude is the lightest in the 200 hp motors with the exception of the Yamaha 200 HPDI which is not CARB3 rated.

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Ringleader,

I do not see a Yamaha 200 four stroke offshore listed on Yamaha's website.
The Yamaha 200 they list shows a weight of 608 pounds.

I think you are referring to older 2 stroke technology.
Please read up on the new 2 stroke technology.
A 4 stroke is definitely not the only way to go.

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Joe - As you know I don't know much about Evinrude, but in looking at their website on the 200 HO, the engine weights are very confusing. They show one model 25" weighing 524# and 20" engines weighing 509. Is that 503 a misprint?

The other point is that when Bass and Walleye magazine did a test of the Evinrude, Yamaha and Merc 200 HP 20" engines, they found ALL MISREPRESENTED the engine weights, with Mercury the smallest amount and being the lightest weight engine, and Evinrude understating weight the most. The 20" 200 HO they actually weighed was something like 565# if I remember correctly. The article has since been removed from the web. I doubt if the Japanese manufacturers are exempt from understating weight also. Yamaha was in the middle in that article regarding the 200 HPDI.

The Mercury 200 Optimax is a 3 star engine, not 2 star.

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Larry,
Yes, things can get confusing.
I can only go by what the respective websites list on their site.
Nothing more and nothing less.

I try and keep up with the changes they post.

One thing about Mercury, is they list all the motors on my chart as 20 inch shaft versions. All the other brands show the weight of a 25 inch shaft version.
That just seems to me that Mercury likes to make their motors appear lighter then the competition by not listing the weight of the 25 inch version.
I am so annoyed with Mercury about this that I now show to "Add 20 lbs. to the weight for a 25 inch shaft".
Honda shows a difference of 22 pounds between a 20" long shaft and the 25"extra long shaft. Mercury may weigh even more as they don't say.

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That is utter nonsense. Even a 20 year old conventional two stroke can do way better than that. Modern DFI two strokes can equal or exceed the fuel economy of modern four stroke outboards.

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There is no such thing as a 200 HP Yamaha Offshore.

The new (last year) 4.2 liter Yamaha 225 Offshore (the smallest in that family) weighs 562 pounds, dry.

The venerable 3.3 liter Yamaha F200 weighs 608 pounds, dry.

Yamaha has announced a new 200 HP model, the F200F, which is a four cylinder of only 2.8 liters (it appears to be based on the F150). It is supposed to weigh around 500 pounds, dry. It will not be available in the US market at least until March.

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The Evinrude 2.6 liter E-TEC 200 weighs only 433 pounds.

The 3.3 liter E-TEC 200 H.O. (DHX) weighs 503 pounds.

The 3.3 liter E-TEC 200 H.O. (HCX) weighs 524 pounds.

All three of these models are 25" shaft length which is what the Outrage 20 requires.

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Larry -- That report from (the now out-of-business) Bass and Walleye Magazine was discredited. Before B&W folded that had to print a retraction admitting their mistakes.

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I am thinking you should take a ride with an E-Tec on the back of an 18 Outrage. My 175HP does way better than 2mph, depending on conditions and what speed i am cruising at easily 4.5MPH or better. Probably should define "cruising speed" cause everyone is different.

I am going to assume given the location of the OP that we are talking about boating in the ocean. I personally wouldn't bother with the H.O. version unless you get really flat water and a lot of the time. I would think the standard 200HP would push the boat fast enough for the conditions.

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I just created a new list for Classic 20' models "Current Engine Choices".
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...cle_id=110
At this time I just show the 200 hp choices. I will be adding the 175 hp choices as soon as I can get to it.

As a reminder to everyone, these are the "Current" motors available from the respective websites. All specifications are taking directly from these websites.
Evinrude, Honda, Mercury, Suzuki, and Yamaha.
These Quick Reference Guides helps let us know the weight compared to other models and what is available at this time.

The topic for this discussion is about a motor(s) for a 1988 Outrage 20'
http://www.whalercentral.com/userphot...album_id=9

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I finished the "Quick Reference Guide" for the 20' Whalers today and added the 175hp models.

I am really disappointed in Mercury as they are the only ones that don't list the weight of their 25" shaft models. They seem to be playing games in that department. Really misleading or trying to trick the public.
So, I have added in Red with an * to add 15 pounds to the weight of all Mercury motors because all they list is a 20" shaft. It is up to us to guess the weight of longer shaft motors.

You can readily see, by far, that Evinrude is the lightest in its class and also has the lightest 200hp motor @433 pounds.

Honda and Yamaha have the heaviest with Suzuki not far behind.

http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...cle_id=110

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Does the 1986-1989 Outrage 20 have the same porpoising tendencies as the earlier V-20 Outrage?

If so, the 433lb Evinrude v6 is likely the smart choice.

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No it does not.

The 1986+ version has a different hull design than the 1979-1985 Outrage 20, also called the V-20 in 1979 .

While the 1st generation had a rounded hull in the stern (similar to the Montauk), the 2nd version had the true V all the way to the stern.

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Well, uh, that is not quite right Phil. The original Outrage 20 (nee Outrage V-20) was Whaler's first true Vee hull. It was introduced in 1977. It is not rounded at all.

The angle of the Vee was shallower than the 1986-1989 Outrage 20, which is nothing more than an Outrage 22 with the aft two feet taken off.

The 1986-1989 Outrage 20 can suffer from porpoising too, but not as much as the original. Keeping the transom weight down is important on both models.

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If I understand it correctly, the 1978-1984 V-20, with it's shallow 12 degree deadrise, did not have enough transom angle for the earlier OMC V-6 engines. The power trim on these engines did not have enough "tuck in" trim range, so they often would porpoise from being trimmed out too far, even if trimmed in all the way.

The Mercury engines of the same period had more trim range, and those boats powered with Mercury did not have the problem. All second generation Whalers designed after the initial V-20 had more transom angle.

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The 1986 model year was the transitional year.

Early 1986 year models had the removable bow steps and later 1986 year model had the built-in bow steps.

See this article as this is one reason I created all those Owners lists to keep track of changes.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=19

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Oops. My apologies for that inaccurate info.

Thanks for correcting it Tom.

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I am working with a friend to choose the correct hp for his 1988 BW Outrage 20. As noted earlier in thread, the max rating for the hull is 200hp. We are thinking to go with a 200 Etec, but would consider a 150 Etec or 175 Etec. Use will be average of 4 passengers, crusing in/out of Edgartown to Pogue Light, Madaket, maybe the Monomoys. Back to dock by sunset. Cost and efficiency, in addition to reliability are factors. What say the conventional wisdom of WC colleagues?

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The 150, 175 and 200 E-Tec all weigh the same @ 433 pounds.
So, that would be a no brainer as far as weight goes.
Go with the 200 hp.

If this was an earlier hull with a max hp of 180, then it would be best to choose a 175 E-Tec if he wanted to stay under the max rated hp limit as stated on the Capacity Plate.

If he wants to go with less power you would have to look at the other Quick Guide Reference for the 18' models.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...ticle_id=6
The 115 or 130 wouldn't save that much weight and would obviously provide less power.

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Phil -- I live for the chance to correct you; the opportunity is so rare ;-)

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The E-TEC 150, 175 and 200 are all based on the 2.6 liter V-6 platform. They are, essentially, the same motor but for the tuning and programming. Given that, it is a no brainer: get the 150 HP model.

Because consumers expect to pay more for more horsepower, the 150 is a much better value because it will (for no practical reason) cost less. It's just marketing.

The E-TEC 150 will accelerate just like the E-TEC 200 (and a hell of a lot faster than any 200 HP four stroke) but it won't have as high a top speed. If you want maximum top speed, get the 200.

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Tom -- According to Mercury, your statement on 4-strokes is incorrect!

Mercury says their testing shows the supercharged Verado 150 accelerates faster, has a higher top speed, and gets MUCH better fuel economy than an E-tec 150 on the same boat.

http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/...ID=57&

Evinrude has never produced a video claiming they outperform a Verado at any HP level. They like to pick on the naturally aspirated 4-strokes instead, like the Yamaha F150.

Somewhere, I have a photo (taken in Harbor Springs MI two summers ago) of a nice Outrage 20 repowered with a Verado 150. It was a nice looking rig and the owner said it ran beautifully with great fuel economy. He really liked the DTS controls. Said it cost him 12K complete and rigged.

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I always question tests like that.

The Verado is almost 100 pounds more in weight.
Did they add an extra 100 pounds to that Lund boat when testing the E-Tec so the total weight was equal?
They don't, and won't, tell us that information is those tests.
Did they use the same driver?
Same day, weather, wind, and water conditions?

Maybe someday, some of us can do an independent study using a Boston Whaler as the test boat and mounting the various motors for our own tests.

Unfortunately, the Verado is only 2 Star emissions rated and much heavier then the E-Tec. Too heavy for the Outrage 20' and cannot be used on many waters in California that require 3 Star rated motors.

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Tom,
I wonder what the real prices are for those motors. 150 versus 200 ?
The Evinrude site does not list "Suggested Retail" so I can't compare real world prices.

One of my concerns here, is if the owner then tries to sell his boat later.
Will the prospective buyers think this boat is underpowered with a 150 hp on it when the max hp is rated for 200?
I know I would unless I had info like this.

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Getting back to the Outrage 20, the weight of a 25" Verado 150 is 525#, and a large cube Optimax 200 is 512#. From what I have seen with Outrage 20's, those that have twin engines, such as the 2-stroke Yamaha 70's or 90's easily carry that same 500# weight. The one I saw with the Verado 150 carried the wieght well, and I have also seen one of these boats with a 200 Optimax on it. Even the much smaller Outrage 18 can easily handle 500# engine weight.

If it were my boat, and for the use being described, I'd put a new Mercury 150 EFI 4-stroke on it considering the low 10.2K price, just to throw another option into the mix. One of these engines is in the future for my classic Outrage 19.

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Larry,
I was thinking more on the lines of porpoising like was discussed earlier. I should have made that clearer.

Yes, the hull can handle the total weight but at what cost?

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There is no scientific reason to NOT choose the lightweight E-TEC V6 for this boat. Choose your top speed from the 3 options of 150, 175 or 200 and go. With this choice, one could even add a kicker and not be much heavier than a 4-stroke main engine by itself.

The only negative could be the dealer network for your area...meaning, if there are only dealers of competing brands in your area, and the Evinrude dealer being a long ways away.

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Joe -- Figure about $1000 for each additional 25 HP. I bet the 200 E-TEC costs more than $2000 more than the 150 E-TEC.

Underpowered? I don't think so. Maybe with only 115 HP but not 150 HP. I have a friend here in Seattle who repowered his (earlier generation) Outrage 20 with a Mercury 150 and it will do damn near 50 MPH. If that is not fast enough for you, by all means, get a 200.

Like I said, if top speed is your goal, get the 200. If cost is a consideration, get the 150.

We don't go out and buy a new outboard motor for the next guy who *might* own our boat.

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Here is some Evinrude list pricing from 2011. This is from the NADA site.
150DPXII. $14855
175DPXII. $16515
200DPXII. $18700

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What about the twin e tec 2012 90hp? Compare to single 200, is less power?
What I'm looking is for used for water ski and travel open ocean crusing like Phil t said. But I need power, I'm 205 lb and to get me out in a slalom is not easy.
My first outrage 18 with 2 stroke 150 was difficult to get me out or up, but I change later for another Johnson 175hp and in 4 seconds I was on top of the water.

I want to thanks to all for help me decide. My boat is coming out very nice, I want to show to all the progress , I will post photos soon. By the way if anyone need bow bitt, or bumper corners in aluminum . I have the guy that maid all my pieces.
Thanks gf

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Twin E-TEC 90s would give you 180 HP with two gearcases dragging through the water and 640 pounds on the transom. That is not a good recipe for a good hole shot. Your top speed will suffer too as well as your wallet.

Get the 200. It will be much better for both waterskiing and top speed.

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Setting aside the engine brand conversation for a minute. Many owners who pull a skier have 2 props. One for cruising/speed and a second with slightly less pitch for skiing.

I would think a 175, from any brand, with the appropriate prop can pull a larger slalom skier up on a Outrage 20 and go FAST.

Prop selection allows you to balance speed/acceleration.

I am sure once you select a motor; Tom, Joe and Larry (Finnegan) will give you some dead on recommendations.

Getting back to engine choice:

Modern EFI and DI outboards have come along way and motors from the top 5 brands are all worth consideration.

Veteran Whaler members advise you to consider(in no order):

Price
Local dealer/service availability from dealers
Weight

I think you should get detailed quotes from two dealers for each brand you consider. The quote should breakdown the exact price for each item

Engine
Prop
Harnesses
Throttle
Gauges
Rigging
Tax

Also get 2 references for customers and talk to them about their repower. Was rigging done well, clean and neat? Did they meet the schedule? Any price surprises? Etc.

For a $15,000 purchase do your due diligence and research.

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guillermo fortuno wrote:


For Guillermo I recommend a single 200 HP outboard.

Weatherly wrote:


For Weatherly's friend I recommend a 150 HP E-TEC.

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Ringleader,

Now I know why I don't have this listed.
It will not work on a Boston Whaler with single engine according to the Yamaha site.
http://www.yamahaoutboards.com/outboa...ection-nav

According to their site, it only comes in 20 inch long shaft.
Classic Whalers take a 25 inch shaft for a single motor including your 1999 Conquest 21'.

There is no way you can have one of these on your 1999 Conquest 21' as that boat takes a 25 inch shaft motor unless you cut down your transom.
Either you are pulling our leg or the Yamaha website is not correct.

Do you work for Yamaha?
Or are you a Bass Fisherman with a different boat?
Apparently this motor is for Bass Boats as they state: "Super High Output four stroke for bass boats".

The V MAX SHO is for Bass Boats, Not Whalers.

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As an update, my friend received this week a quote of $12.3K rigged "out the door" for a 2013 Etec 150 25 inch leg. He will get another quote to be comfortable with making a choice. I informed him that I thought the quote was very reasonable.

I will be seeking advice at a later date on the optimal mounting height and propeller choice, once my friend makes a decision on the purchase of the E-tec 150.

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Tell him to get a quote for the 175HP as well. If the max HP is 200, that's what i would get although if you want to save a couple bucks drop back to the 175HP It should only be slightly more than the 150, Right now Evinrude has a repower promotion running of 5year warranty + free rigging which includes a free stainless prop.

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Excellent suggestion. I will pass this on.

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On Saturday, 15 June, I accompanied my friend and his son on a shakedown cruise aboard his 2013 Evinrude 150 E-Tec powered 1988 BW Outrage 20. The E-Tec 150 performed exceptionally well. While the sea conditions off of Martha's Vineyard (between Edgartown-Vineyard Haven) did not allow for full throttle operation, at one point we observed circa 40 mph at 5100 rpm. The 150 E-Tec was fitted with a Viper stainless prop. The cruising speed fuel burn averaged 5.2 GPH. The E-Tec 150 was a very nice performance match to the 1988 Outrage 20.