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I'm getting closer to repowering my 1979 13, and am leaning toward 30 HP, rather than 40.  I don't plan to pull skiers or tubers, but I may have 3-4 people onboard sometimes, and would like to be able to plane with this load. I have heard the following from other members regarding their performance with motors in this size range: an older Tohatsu 25 HP 2-stroke that would reach close to 30 MPH; a 25 Mercury 4-stroke (tiller) that reaches the high 20's with 2-3 people onboard; and an E-Tec 30 with top speed about 30 (with one person) that can easily plane with 4 adults, and pull teens skiing.  All of these results sound good to me.  In the 30 HP size, I've narrowed down to the E-Tec and Mercury. The Mercury dealer is a lot closer, so I am leaning that way.  My question now is about how the current 2-strokes (E-Tec) compare to 4-strokes performance-wise.  Specifically, how do you think the performance would compare between the E-Tec 30 (2-Stroke) and the Mercury 30 (4-stroke)? (Motor weight is one of my concerns, and these 2 are very close: 177 vs. 182 lbs, w/electric start and PTnT, I think). Thanks again, Lex in Shelby, NC

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I have a 13" 1992 GLS with a new(last year) Tohatsu 30. I'm sure you know Tohatsu makes all the Mercury 30 and under four strokes. I checked the etech 30 and 40 also and believe the 30 was heavier and was more expensive. The weight did concern me but everyone that had an etch I talked to (4) said they would get another one. At the time the etch was offering a 5 year warranty.

All that aside I purchased the Tohatsu for under 5K installed with additional tach (3 year warranty) I am completely satisfied with the Tohatsu. 32 mph (Plenty fast in a 13) with bimini up and two people (300 lbs) and gear and 3 gal fuel (You get a new 6 gallon tank with the motor but a 3 gal is all I ever need) and a 60 lb Optima battery. I let it sit since October and last week it started up on first crank. Have 11 pitch aluminum prop and it works as good as the 2 Tohatsu SS and 1 other brand SS prop I tried. Save your money stay with the aluminum.

So, I assume the Merc would treat you the same but it was also more expensive. Dealer location and the dealers reputation for service is important. I have all the dealers within a short drive but the Tohatsu seemed to be the better choice after too many hours on the internet (Hondas still carberated and Yamaha had no 30s and 40s way too heavy) and cruising the boat yards and landings and really money was not an issue but nice to have saved anyway.

A quite fuel sipping pleasure.

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Thanks for all that info!  Yes, I have heard good stories about the E-Tec also.  If the dealer was closer, I would be leaning heavily that way.  Currently Mercury has the standard 3-year full ("platinum" ) warranty, plus 2 more years "gold" warranty, and for $100 you can make the 2 years platinum also (I think coverage of electrical items is the main difference).

I got a quote for $4900 for a Tohatsu 30, installed price. I am glad to hear that you can get 32 MPH like that!  That's all that I can get with my current motor (40 HP 2-stroke Yamaha) with just me on board, and no bimini.

The (5) quotes I have for the Mercury 30 installed range from about $5450 (Bass Pro Shops) to $6400.  The dealer closest to me is $6070.  Re the Honda, I didn't want carbureted either, and the 40 is too heavy (214 #).

I think your boat weighs about the same as mine...mine may be about 20# less?

Do you have power tilt and trim?

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As for weight difference my GLS insert looks heavy so you may be more than 20lb lighter. I did move my battery under the console thus putting a bunch of weight 60 lb at the mid and centerline of the boat which may help and only a 3 gal tank for less gas. Wife sits right in front of driver most the time as we attempt to distribute weight evenly as possible.

The extra 2 year warranty for the Merc sounds nice but the difference you pay for the Merc and Warranty I'd bet yu have no problems with the Tohatsu in the additional two years equal to the price difference between the M and T.

Enjoy. If any other questions will be happy to ramble on.....

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And...Yes I have power trim and tilt.

Model MFS30BEPTY

$4989 out the door and it included additional $100 for the Tohatsu tach which I could not believe was not included as who would not want a tach. It fit right in where the original Merc one was. I did add an hour meter because again, I cannot understand why its not automatically included.

I did buy later the 3 gal gas can and that was 60 or 70 dollars. I have not used the 6 gallon can since.

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Thanks again for your responses. I will probably go with the Merc 30. If the evinrude dealer was closer, I would probably go that route. At the other whaler website, that seems to be the favored choice. Although there may be some performance differences, I am hoping that they are not significant. I think that both motors are good choices, and that I would be happy with either choice. Take care, Lex

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After more research and talking, I am becoming more interested in the E-Tec, although I am still in the deciding phase.  One (non-performance-related) thing that I like is the self-winterizing feature of the E-Tec.  Also, I have some more questions about the E-Tec:  Since it is a 2-cylinder, would it be as "smooth" as a 3-cylinder?  Also, I have heard people say that 3-cylinder motors have more torque than 2-cylinder motors.  I know that torque is related to HP (HP = Torque X RPM/5252), but is there anyting to this?  And, are the E-Tecs smoky at all, like older 2-strokes?  (I don't think they are)  Also, how loud are they, and how is the MPG, relative to 4-strokes (eg: the Mercury)?  Thanks again, Lex

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I put the 2011 25hp E Tec on Al, my 13 footer and love it. Saw the 30 on another and he has nothing on me. The 40hp was a grip of cash and still not sure it offers that much more. Did I mention I love my 25 E Tec. I use my boat as a work boat for diving and rely on this every day.

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If you put the Etec on your boat, you won't need a close by dealer or an extended warranty.

Just sayin'.

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Jack - I'm glad to hear that you like your E-Tec. Do you think the 25 is about equal to the 30 performance-wise? I think they weigh the same. The 40 is heavy. Do you carry much load in your boat? CES - You seem to like the E-tec also. You don't have one, though, do you? Thanks to you both, Lex

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We have an E-TEC and it has been a fantastic engine overall. No smoke at all, very quiet, starts in 1/4 turn every time, idles solid at 500, and is the cleanest running engine out there, including 4 strokes. Mid-range torque is very strong since it develops power on every stroke. As you mention, the self winterization feature is great, and they really are pretty much maintenance free for the first 3 years (though fittings should be greased annually, etc).

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You know I have an E-Tec 30. Love it.The way it just starts every time never ceases to impress me. It is probably a bit rougher than a 3-cylinder, but I don't think it's "rough" by any measurement. No smoke at all. Sips gas. Much quieter than an old 2-stroke, but a bit louder than a modern 4-stroke. Trolls all day without complaint.

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The Etec is my replacement motor of choice. No, I don't have one on there now as my Yamaha runs perfectly. Also, I do all of my own mechanic work so I don't need anyone close by to work on it either.

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I dont think this discussion will ever end. Whichever you buy will be great.

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I hope this discussion ends soon! (grin). I promise I will buy a motor soon, and end this thread! And, I do appreciate everyone's input and advice. Thanks, Lex

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No need to end a thread as a discussion can last for months....just because one fella is tired of reading it doesn't mean it has to end.....he should choose to not read or engage in the discussion any longer if it bores him.

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I am not trying to stop the conversation as I think it is helpful to future members. My thoughts are as follows as I have been in 13's with both a 30 etec and I own a 40 yamaha 4 stroke EFI.

If you want 30 hp and plan on only having 4 people max in the boat buy the 30 ETEC. The 40 ETEC is out of the question as the lower unit is larger and it is too heavy for the 13.

If you want 40 hp and you are like me where you almost always have 6 people or are pulling a skiier then I HIGHLY recomend the 40 Yamaha. It is so quiet that I have talking conversations at full speed. and I have only use 3 gallons of gas in a day and I was running constantly. The winterization is not a factor to me as it is change your oil and spray some fogging oil in when you are done.
Everyone has valid points but the 4 stroke is what I chose and would not have wanted anything different. ETECs are sweet but just a bit louder and the 40 is just not right for the 13.

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Brooksinct-Thanks for sharing and comparing and contrasting your experiences with, and thoughts about, the 30 etec and 40 yamaha 4 stroke EFI. I would rarely have more than 4 people on board, so I think 30 is the way for me. When you say the E-Tec is a bit louder, I hope you mean a little bit, not a big bit, louder. Take care, Lex

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Thanks for the clarification Brooks.

Lex...the Etecs are very quite. I do agree with the 4 stroke Yamaha.....it's a great motor. But anything is less noisier than what you have on there now.

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On a purely dB comparison I think the E-TECs are not much louder than a four-stroke, but their pitch is a bit different which gives the impression. At full speed the biggest impediment to conversation is wind noise!

John K.

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FYI - an outboard dealer told me today that Evinrude just started offering a 6 (yes, six) year warranty on E-Tecs, but I don't know the details, such as how long this offer will last.

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Go over to www.etecownersgroup.com, tell them you're considering purchasing a 30 and ask, there are a number of excellent dealers and tech's on there who will answer any questions about current deals.

You're smart to gather as much information as possible before buying as new motors aren't cheap, and although any new engine is going to be great, there are differences that are worth examining before deciding.

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Derwd - thanks for the link, and the comments, also. PS, were you ever on Bewitched?

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Checked the Evinrude website and they are currently offering the 6 year warranty through July 9th. That's 3 years of their regular warranty and 3 more of their B.E.S.T coverage (previously it was only 2 years for 5 total).

http://www.evinrude.com/Content/Pdf/e...f#zoom=100

PS Good catch on the Bewitched reference

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Well, I ordered the E-Tec 30. It should arrive mid-week. Thanks to everyone for their advice and help, Lex

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So what is the first impression, have you taken the boat out yet?

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Sorry for the late reply, I haven't checked the site in a few days.  I'm having the motor installed this week.  I am also having some other work done, and it should all be ready next week (hopefully), unless there are delays getting cables or gauges.  I'm looking forward to it.  I will report my results!  Thanks for asking -Lex

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Sorry I arrived late to the discussion. You clearly made the right choice. Yes, the Etec will have more torque in the lower and mid rpm range. Yes, torque is related to horsepower (HP = torque x RPM/5252). If two 30hp motors both generate their peak HP at the same RPM (i.e. at 5500 rpm), then they both generate the same amount of torque at that rpm. However, that says nothing about how much torque they generate at rpms below that. That's the key difference between the 2-strokes and 4-strokes. I have a later model 13 with a 40hp Merc 4-stroke. It is quiet and efficient but I have come so close to swapping it out for an E-tec its not even funny. I've been pondering since I bought the boat new back in 2008. I am convinced that you will love your E-tec. No, it might not be quite as quiet and smooth as a good 4-stroke, but the difference is very slight and the advantages far outweigh this. As someone mentioned, the pitch of the engine sound is different. The 2-strokes are a little higher pitched and sometimes this makes them seem a little louder. The 4-strokes generally sound like a bigger engine even when they aren't. Let us know as soon as you drive it. I'm jealous, man.

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I'm looking to purchase a 13' Sport and finding ones from about 2000 and newer to be equipped usually with either 25 HP 4-stroke Mercs or 40 HP Mercs, which I presume are 4 stroke too. I'm looking at one now with the 25 HP which is obviously a two cylinder engine.

Is one engine generally preferred over the other? The 40 HP is larger displacement and heavier too? The 40 HP engines are three cylinder maybe? Are one of the newer EFI engines a much better choice and when did they come along? Are these sourced from Tohatsu or Yamaha on the 25 and 40 HP four strokers?

Just some questions that come to mind.

thanks in advance!!

fried okra

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Fred:

I can only answer two of your questions. I have a 2011 Merc 25 hp on my 13' Whaler, it's a 3 cylinder. In my mind, the EFI engines are superior.

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That's interesting....I only noticed two spark plugs when the cowl was off on the 2001 25HP four stroke Merc.......I am guessing they have switched to another base engine now on the EFI versions.....don't know though.

fried okra

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http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/...0/?model=0

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Thanks, I had seen that, which is for the current line of engines. There doesn't seem to be much spec information available on line for earlier engines though.

The owners manual for the 25 HP carbed engine from 2001 lists it as 2 cylinder, 498cc, with a long stroke design......which is definitely a different basic engine than the new short stroke 3 cylinder engines.

fried okra

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If you're looking for a 2000 or later model 13', I think you will find a 25hp motor lacking in power, especially if it is a 4-stroke. I believe the 25hp is sourced fro Tohatsu. The current 40hp EFI 4-stroke is not, but the block appears to be shared with Yamaha.

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Hello again…I want to report on my new motor experiences. Sorry it’s taken me so long to do this, but we were on vacation for 2+ weeks, and then I was been busy trying to catch up at work. I am very happy with the motor. It starts right away. It vibrates a little more than I was expecting, mainly when idling; but at higher RPMs, it runs smoothly. It accelerates quickly and smoothly, and pops right out of the hole. The noise is no problem, and I don’t ever notice any smoke...sometimes I smell some exhaust. I have used the TnT a lot, mainly because we go into a lot of shallow areas. My max speed (GPS) with just me on board is 29 MPH (about 5700-5800 RPM); with 2 people it is 27 MPH. These speeds are with the motor trimmed up most or all of the way. It porpoises a lot at that trim setting. If trimmed down to about the halfway point (on the trim gauge), with just me on board I get about 27-28 MPH (5500-5600 RPM), and porpoising is pretty much eliminated, depending on weight distribution. I put a little more length on my fuel line so I could put the tank forward of the front seat to reduce porpoising. (I have Excel table and graphs of the Tilt/RPM/MPH relationships if anyone wants them). BTW, the steering is neutral when the trim is about 3/4 down. I also got a fuel use estimate of 9 MPG (that's a very rough estimate). It has the stock prop that came from Evinrude (10.3x12). I am pleased with this motor, and hope to get to use it a lot more soon (I wish that I lived closer to the water). Thanks to everyone for their advice and input, and feel free to ask any questions. -Lex