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Are all the montauk console side doors the same size. I just bought a louvered side door and it doesn't fit. I have a 74 console.

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The louvered doors I believe are the same overall size.

However, your model console did not have louver doors.
The 1973 to 1976 console had solid doors which apparently have a different size opening.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=58

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Owning Whalers with both style consoles, I can confirm what Joe has said. The "winged" console that you have is a different size and different construction than the lovered door assembly, which began in 1978. A louvered door to fit that opening would have to be custom made, or a different size opening would have to be cut into the console.

You can see the earlier "winged" console style door here:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v42...0006-1.jpg

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The front door fits just fine, its the side door that doesn't fit. I guess now I will have to decide if I want to cut the opening larger or make new doors.

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What is the model number of your compass Finnegan?

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The compass on my 19 Outrage is original optional equipment from the factory in late 1974, when the boat was manufactured, a Ritchie "Navigator 2000" series, recessed. This compass model is still widely available, but has been re-designed and modernized. It will still fit the raised circle on the console top. It's a first class piece of equipment, and costs about $225. For my money, the Ritchie Navigator series 2000 compasses are the best you can buy for a powerboat. It'sa big compass, and like Boston Whaler in the Dougherty days, I like big compasses.

On the 1978 and later consoles, it looks best as an SS Binnacle mount.

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Here is the 1974 door Josh. Let me know if you need a trace or just the measurements.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72...0_0568.jpg

Gary

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Not to hijack the thread but I think we have this one answered.

Regarding the compass Fin. I have a similar Ritchie flush mount on mine, Model F60-D7 but it is foggy.

Does any one know if Ritchie will refurbish older compasses?

Gary

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Yes, Ritchie will refurbish an old compass.

http://www.ritchienavigation.com/serv...m/service/

The top-of-line compass used by Whaler in the 1970s and 1980s was the Ritchie FN-50, shown in their options and accessories catalogs.

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Were the console doors on the first generation Montauk/Outrage consoles made of Mahogany plywood or solid wood?

Is the fiberglass of the console exposed as a rough cut behind the door when opened?

Is there a rabbet cut in the edge of the door and the hinge mount?

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Here is the back side Tom and it is Mahogany. Just flat 3 ply plywood, no rabbet and the edges of the hatch fiberglass are exposed.

I cannot be sure yet but it does appear the ply faces are a different wood and possibly Teak on the front with Mahogany on the back. I'll know better when I do some sanding and begin the finish process. There is a part number on the hinge side of the wood FP0674 which makes some sense as my boat was delivered in July of 74.

It is 15.5 inches high and a total of 11 7/8" wide with the hinge strip that is 1 5/8".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72...0_0572.jpg

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Which boat used the richie danforth constellation model compass?

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None. There is no such thing as a Ritchie Danforth Constellation model compass.

Danforth was a different manufacturer of compasses. They did make a model called Constellation.

Whaler only used Ritchie.

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That makes more since.

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Two comments:

Regarding the lower, larger, front of console louvered doors, the doors on the 1978-1982 consoles are larger size than those on the 1983 and later consoles. They are not interchangeable. But the side console louvered doors are.

I sent a Ritchie Navigator in for service, since some fluid had leaked out. Charge was $100, and the guy at Ritchie told me that, in effect, they were not going to repair my perfectly good compass, but instead give a new one. They did!

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Just for clarification,

The 2nd console for the Montauk started in 1977
1977 to 1982
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=58

You can also view the 2nd console in the personal page section for all the 1977 Montauks.

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....If interested I can make a louvered door for your console. I would need the measurements of the fiberglass opening on your console.

Thanks,
Mike
Nautical Lumber Co

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I did some sanding today and as stated above I can confirm the front veneer on the side door is Teak while the rear side is Mahogany if any one cares.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72...0_0573.jpg

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I guess it was cheaper to use mahogany for the rear?

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Could be Josh but what I did find interesting is that the door was varnished on the inside and oiled on the outside. It could just be they did the Teak face to keep it all looking the same as the rest of the wood on our boats. Another interesting thing I found was the strip of wood above the door, I'll call it a drip edge, is Mahogany and that too was varnished instead of oiled.

My boat came from the dealer with the fishing platform forward of the CC. It is attached and screwed down on to strips of wood fastened all around the sides, front and the front of the CC. They too were Mahogany and varnished and every piece of that wood was completely rotted from water and debris that collected in those joints. When I re-install the fishing platform the wood strips it will be to fastened it to will be UHMW poly plastic that will never rot.

So far there is not a piece of Teak on my boat that I can't clean up, re oil and re use and almost every piece of Mahogany has to be replaced because it rotted. HMMMM.

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Gary,

Is your side door just the three pieces, the top side and door?

I still have my old door so I can use that to template. All of them were just laying in the console so I am not really sure how they looked installed.

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Actually 4 pieces. Hinge strip, door, drip edge above and a tiny square the hasp catch is mounted on to bring it to level with the door.

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Having recently cleaned, sanded and varnished ALL of the original wood on the "winged" console that came with my 1975 Outrage 19, (stored unused for 30 years) I can tell you without question that all wood was teak, with no solid mahogany being used. (see my link to photos of my 19 Outrage in a previous post to this thread). All of the teak was "raw" from the factory, but the previous owner did oil it only once.

As for the two console teak marine plywood doors, and the teak plywood instument panels (which I replaced with solid 3/8" teak panels), the inside veneer was luan or philippine mahogany. As far as I know, all teak marine plywood that Boston Whaler has ever used had the luan mahogany interior veneer, up through my 1989 Outrage floor sump covers. That may be the only way it can be purchased? I have never seen two sided teak marine plywood, or maybe it was just too expensive for Whaler to use.

Any Whaler of this vintage that has varnished mahogany on the "winged" console is not original from the factory. The inside surface of the teak plywood doors was NOT varnished.

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That sounds just about right from what I found Finnegan. I am just a little confused with 2 issues though.

I am referring only to the winged console side door here. Mine is Teak veneered on the front face and some other wood on the inside, possibly Mahogany. I do believe the edges and the inside have been varnished at some point while the front face was always oiled. Teak oil will not do much for protecting plywood or the Mahogany wood so what might BW have used in these spots?

My console has angled wood strips that act as drip caps above the doors to deflect water past the face of the doors. These strips appear to be varnished Mahogany but I can't be certain. I just don't think they are Teak.

Can you clarify any of this?

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There is no drip edge over the stern facing lower door.

The drip edge over the side console door is teak.

On every piece of teak faced marine plywood that I have ever seen used on a Whaler, it was furnished plain on both sides and edge grain, not oiled nor varnished by the factory.
The teak plywood veneer doors on the winged console had no coating on them at all.

Because of the constant cleaning and sanding work of maintaining oiled teak, I now varnish all teak on my Whalers. this avoids sanding the veneers and sections down to nothing. In the long run, varnish holds up MUCH better, and looks better in my opinion.

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I think you are right Finnegan. I just went out and checked my bare console and can see some evidence where a PO did varnish the back side of the side door.

I also did a little sanding on the drip strips and it probably is Teak. I was mistaken on the position of the longer strip and it goes on the top surface of the console's stern facing edge.

As I have said, my large door was missing when I got the boat but I will be able to duplicate one from good pictures and the outline that still remains on the console.

I prefer the look and feel of oiled Teak so we will disagree there but all is still good.

Are the winged consoles from your boat and my 1974 Montauk exactly the same in size? If so and you have a good picture of the stern facing door below the helm I sure would like it for a guide.

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All the winged consoles are the same.

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If you look at photo #7 in the photobucket link up above, you can see a pretty good shot of the front door. If I remember correctly, it is from 3/4" teak marine plywood, with all square cut edges, corners slightly eased. That is something you might want to have Nautical Lumber make for you, since sourcing that kind of plywood could be difficult. The front compartment doors in the 19 Outrage were made from the same stock.

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Thanks Finnegan. Probably an issue here with my BS satellite connection. Photo 7 in your link is the back end of a Merc 150 and I can't get past pic #8. I think there is a video in there and those will never show here.

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Finnegan, what type of edge did you put on your gauge and throttle panels?

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The panels are 3/8" solid teak, with a 3/16" to 1/4" 45 degree champhered edge. The engine control panel was needed because the boat was originally twin engine rigged, so this coveres the larger hole in the actual console face.

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I was finally able to navigate through your photos Finnegan. Apparently there is a video in there that I cannot load but by skipping past it I did get to see the still photos.

Your boat is simply gorgeous! I can certainly see a reason to varnish with all the wood your boat has. Our Montauks only have the wood on the consoles and the RPS seat back unless the fishing platform is on the boat. I have 5 coats of teak oil and it is beginning to look pretty good but still drinking it up. The lower door should be a simple build for me from your pictures. I don't have the teak veneered plywood but I do have teak and a planer.

Super nice job on your console face and it is exactly like mine. I'm still trying to figure out if I want to mimic what you did with small rectangles of wood or if I will completely cover the slanted face between the wings with 3/8 inch teak. I do have a solid piece large enough to do it. Yours does look very nice and as close to original as can be. Opinions on covering the entire slant are welcome as I am not yet to this point and trying to decide which way to go. I also have a bunch of drilled holes in my console from where antenna wires went through on each side for both VHF and CB radios and the antennas where mounted on the gunwales. Lots of holes to patch and clean up before any wood goes back on.

My console also has a plastic insert or separator that makes the side door into a box inside and I am not sure if I will use it or not.

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I have a 1/2 inch board that I am going to use under the helm and throttle and I think I will use 3/8 for the control panels. I thought about using a 3/8 round on all of them. Does this make sense?

I just oiled the pieces I have with Wastco teak oil and it came out pretty dark. The drip piece came out almost a black color? I guess it comes out dark if it is old?

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My console had nothing under the helm and control. Just 2 rectangular 1/4 inch panels for the gauges and switches. The bezel for the new helm is not as wide as the old one so I have to do something there. My new throttle is the same so it will drop right in.

Just my thought here but if you don't have a need for the thicker wood to cover a big hole or ad extra support then I would keep them all the same thickness. Keep in mind how much room you have behind the dash when everything is installed so you don't build the helm out too far and the cable becomes and issue.

I think you are a bit further along than I am and I'm sure I will run in to lots of challenges as the weather breaks. 70 MPH gusts here yesterday and no electric from 10 AM until 2 AM this morning and 12 degrees with steady high winds still. My favorite time here in the NY mountains.

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Gam - Your console does not look too badly butchered by the previous owner. I would try to keep it as original and clean as possible, filling in holes as needed and polishing up the gelcoat. I have seen several applications where large sheets of wood have been put over console tops and front surfaces, but I don't like the look.

I have found the consoles, once taken out of the boat and stripped like you have done, are fairly easy to bring back.

On plywood backed areas, I have found it easy to glue back in plugs which will fill the wood, then fill the glass portion, both sides, with polyester resin like Evercoat #27, then gelcoat over on the top surface. On one job, I even was able to fill in a 4-1/2" diameter hole on the thin console top from a recessed compass poorly placed, and not on wheel centerline. I have an adjustable hole cutter which is great for cutting a round plywood plug to fill in round holes. Top over with #27 and gelcoat and you'll never see it if color match is good. Gelcoat color MUST be custom matched, using a tinting kit. Start with Desert Tan and tint from there.

On thin areas of the console with no wood backing, glue on a scrap of teak or marine plywood as a backer plate, fill glass thickness with #27 and gelcoat again.

To gloss up console, wet sand #1000, #1500, #2000, then use 3M Imperial Compound and Finishing material (wool buffer pad), followed by 3M Finesse-it II, and Kit Scratch-out as a final glaze. Result will be factory new gloss, or even better.

Thank you for your compliment on the 19 Outrage. Except for the control pad, the console is all original. Whaler originally furnished a fuel gauge between the instrument panels, with on-off switch, so I put a gauge series clock in the hole instead. The console in the boat is also raised 6" on teak blocking I designed and built. The wheel and engine control on the original design is too low for my 6-2 height. The raised console is a GREAT detail, completely changing the feel of the boat. I would consider doing it.
A friend has taken my suggestion for his 1986 Montauk, raising it 4", and it is fabulous. RPS is also raised 6" on his Montauk. He used my riser designs.

My console also had that strange interior partitioning. I removed it. I also re-wired, using a Blue Seas 6 gang fuse block for power distribution, mounted to the lower port side of the console, easily accessible from the front door.

Your original steering is heavy duty "Big T", with components still avaiable from Teleflex. I would stay with it, which will save console filling work. Looks like you need a new oval bezel, either black or chromed. A new quick connect cable can be fitted, which is what I did.

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Thanks Finn. I am kind of getting partial to the way yours looks and as it came from the factory. I can slice up that large piece of 3/8 teak and make a bunch of panels just the way they came and have some left over.

I already bought the new steering head and cable but I think it is a Safe T or Quick T style and has a round bezel instead of oval. My old helm is shot and very pitted. The new one does appear to be not quite as heavy duty.

Great info on the hole filling process. I will have about 4 3/4" or 1 inch holes where the ends of Antenna connectors where drilled to go through. Just a bunch of screw holes after that. I already raised my CC and the RPS up about 2 inches in height. I could go higher I suppose. I am doing what some consider sacrilege and I fastened a 2 inch thick by 6 inch wide plate of solid Teak where the CC fastens to the floor to support the T top I will be installing. I will re use the tapered teak runners the CC was on which is also still solid and in great shape. Just my attempt at beefing up and spreading out the load the T top frame will ad.

I'm sure to have plenty of questions as the weather breaks and I get moving. I do wish I could re gel coat the entire hull in and out but I just don't have the facilities and am not getting any younger. I hope she ends up looking OK in her faded glory but more important is getting her water ready so I can catch a few fish and waste some time in retirement.

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Gel coat is the materiel you have to work with in hell, which you have to sand out orange peel without polishing through and everything is corners. You can have a perfectly flat surface and the gelcoat still won't lay flat after you spray it.

I would never regel a boat again, it is just not worth the effort.

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Fennagen, Gary,

What hardware was used to mount the doors. I just sanded and oiled my old ones. They don't look great, but will work for now.

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Perko Bronze, Hinge is #951-1 or possibly 7, Hasp is # 998. These are for the side door only and I suspect the same for the main door that I don't have.

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I need to know the width of the trim boards around the lower console door, the parts that get attached to the console. They appear to be about 1.5 inches but I can't be sure.

My rough opening is 10.5" H X 24 3/8".

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The trim around the front console door is not a ractangular section. See this photo, which also shows some of my re-wiring work:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v42...=R1-25.jpg

I can't get to my boat right now, and my memory fails me, but the trim pieces are either an "L" section, or a non-symetrical "U" section, as is shown in the photo.

Maybe someone else can help with the dimensions, but I am sure the thickness is 3/4" to match the plywood door thickness.

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Thanks Finnegan. I suspected it to be more of a cap that will be relieved from behind so it covers the exposed edges of the glass.

Mine will be a little different because I have an aluminum frame I am reworking to fit the hole. Outward it will appear the same as original after I cover the aluminum faces.

I am not sure about the design of the original door because it appears to have no stop that would prevent it from going in to the console if pushed to hard to close. I'm still very much in the planning stage for this part.

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If you look at the photo, you will see an aluminum "tab" at the top center that serves as a stop.

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The large trim on my front console are 25.5' x 1.5' x .75 thick. The length and width are about 1/16 shorter than the dimension, I just rounded up.

I think I am misunderstanding Finnegan, mine look rectangle, the edges seem to be eased over just barely.

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It appears to be recessed in the back so that it forms a cover over the fiberglass edge all the way around rather than just being flat stock applied to the face of the CC.

As Finnegan had mentioned it could be a U shape cap and this is a better option for my build that I just completed. I scrapped my idea of using the aluminum frame and just built the door and frame to spec except I used 3.25 inch solid teak boards to make the door instead of plywood which I don't have. It should look like straight from the factory once I round the edges and give it a few coats of oil.

Thanks for the 1.5" dimension as I had expected.

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Working on the console now and think I have some wrong materials and need some help.

I plan to patch all the holes from behind with plywood and to fill in the holes from the surface. I bought West System #105 Epoxy Resin and #205 Hardener and I have both mat and woven fiberglass cloth. For these hole repairs I bought Spectrum Gel Coat Patch Paste repair in Desert Tan 72-93.

I don't remember if the gel coat sticks to only Epoxy Resin or only Polyester resin.

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Polyester, but poly resin is cheap and readily available.

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The plywood backing worked well for me. I glued it in place with Gorilla Glue. But before I did it, I eased the eges of the holes with a countersink bit so they were beveled. This makes a much better, rough, surface for the filler to bond to.
For holes larger than 1" dia, I would lay a little cut to size glass mat in with the resin paste.

I would NOT use Epoxy. The gelcoat won't bond to it. Use Evercoat #27, a polyester resin based filler that is easy to work with. After block sanding flush, grind out a recess for the gelcoat cover.

The Specturn gelcoat Desert Tan will not match perfectly. It will need to be pre-tinted for a perfect color match. THIS IS WORTH DOING. Experiment a little with it, and you will get good at it. Sometimes it has taken me an hour to achieve the perfect color match. Tint up way more than you need, and save it in a jar in the fridge. I dab the un-catalyized gelcoat onto the boat, check match, then wipe off with a little lacquer thinner. You may have to do this 100 times to get it right! You cannot match correctly by just looking at it in the mixing cup.

When dry, block sand with 220 or 400, and check color match. If it's not good, grind it back out and try again.

When good, wet sand up through the grades all the way to 2000. I use, 220,400,600,1000,1500 and 2000. Then buff with 3M Imperial Compound and Finishing Material, then buff with 3M Finesse-it II, then finish off with Kit Scratch-Out (a glaze). Surface will actually have more gloss depth than original. Always use a wool buffer pad. If your gelcoat color match is perfect, there will be no indication at all that holes were ever there.

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What do I use to tint the Spectrum with and where do I get it from? I am assuming that I don't ad the catalyst until I get the color matched.

I can probably find the polyester at the local auto store tomorrow.

These are the holes I need to fill in and they are one both sides where Antennas were mounted and I have 3/4 inch drilled holes on both sides of the front where wires were passed through.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72...0_0583.jpg

The large hole is where a bilge pump switch and breaker will go back in. I have many 1/4 inch drilled holes in the front where the rod holders were and will not be put back on.
Will gel coat stick to wood pegs glued in to these holes or should I stuff them with the poly also?

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What are you doing with the rod holders, I am looking for some?

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You got them! Drop me an email.

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I have a 19ft 1974 outrage. I'm looking for the 4 frame wood parts for the side door. I have the door where can I get those wooden frame pieces? It is for the side door on the center console.Thanks.

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I'm not 100% sure on this but I believe your console is the same one as mine "Winged Console". If this is the case there was no frame around the side door. It was just a strip for the hinge side and a plywood door with a small piece for the hasp catch. There was also a drip strip over the top.

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This is as close as I can get from the pics I have seen of the lower door and frame.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Boat/DSCN0091.jpg[/IMG]

I am just about done with the CC and filling and covering all the holes.

The spectrum GC patch works great except that when you start to feather it in to the existing GC you have to be very careful you don't go through it. I had to go with Teak covers on the top surface because of all the old electronics and many holes I filled in.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Boat/DSCN0090.jpg[/IMG]

The new Teleflex Safe T helm was a real twist for me. when I installed the wheel I had just enough space at the wings of the CC to pinch my fingers. I ended up having to space it out about a half an inch and had to relieve the black plastic bezel to sit flush against the slanted surface. If I had to do it over I am sure the Big T would be a better option.

Not as pretty as I would have liked but it will work.

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Looks good. I like the console door.

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Gamalot - You've done a beautiful job on that console. Nice work!

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Thanks Finnegan. The woodwork comes pretty easy for me with a shop full of tools for it. Fiberglass and Gel Coat are giving me fits.