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Stuffing the bow
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| Phil T |
Posted on 07/25/09 - 2:05 PM
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The last two times out in my Outrage 17 I, I have stuffed the bow several times. (What I mean by this is the bow dips into a wave trough and does not rise quick enough so that it slices into the wall of the next wave and water comes straight in the boat.)
I'm not bothered too much, although 4" of water coming over the bow the first time was a bit surprising. The shipped water does not present a significant problem since it makes it's way to the stern, around the quarter seats, into the channels and then to the bilge where it is pumped out by the 1100 gpm bilge pump.
It is worth mentioning the stuffing occurs in wind blown, 2-3 ft's waves (~5-7 seconds apart?) with white caps and a Small Craft Advisory (SCA).
I'm starting to think my seamanship is wrong. While once or twice I was at maneuvering speed, several times I was on a plane at ~15 mph.
It would be helpful to hear suggestions on how I can limit this activity if I so choose.
Please don't suggest a larger boat. While I dream of a Outrage 20 or 22, it is not realistic for a few years.
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| chiburis4 |
Posted on 07/25/09 - 2:31 PM
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I stuffed my stern by accident last week when dropping a few pasengers on the beach. 2-3 footers crashed over the stern and the 1100 GPH bilge worked for about 10 seconds and then became clogged with seaweed. Had about a foot of water and thought I would loose the motor but all worked out and I limped back to port. Kinda an eye opening experience. Will try to avoid that from now on.
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| Guts |
Posted on 07/25/09 - 3:11 PM
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I have had a couple war ships and at least three submarines do that to me. glad I had a five gallon bucket on board and a working bilge pump of coarse.
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| MW |
Posted on 07/25/09 - 4:05 PM
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I'm a lot lower to the water than you guy's, a large 5' wake or wave can be a "Significant" threat to me at slow speed, I usually increase H.P. slightly and tilt "UP" a bit to raise the Bow. I'm also "Lighter" than you guy's so increasing to almost max. H.P. let's me skip across the top of most wave frequency's in the Bay.
Matt |
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| kamie |
Posted on 07/25/09 - 5:04 PM
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Phil,
Not sure there is much you can do it those waves. The boat isn't long enough or heavy enough to skip the waves. With a wave frequency that short, you don't have a short enough boat to slide down one wave and up the next. Watch your speed and do the best you can or stay on shore.
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| brady |
Posted on 07/25/09 - 5:20 PM
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I kinda agree with MW. In those conditions you maybe should be going a bit faster. This of course will be a rougher ride but the speed will keep you on top better. I have stuffed the bow in my Montauk at slower speeds. I have never stuffed my Outrage 25 and I have been in sum snotty stuff. I love all whalers but the Outrage 25 never stops amazing me. The driest ride I've been on. period.
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| RevengeFamily |
Posted on 07/25/09 - 5:49 PM
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Hey Phil,
It sounds like MW and I try the same maneuver, tilt up on the engine(s), seems to make the bow a bit light so she tends to want to ride up the oncoming swell instead of getting stuffed. You need to watch you don't over do it other wise the helm becomes what I call "light"...
Last October I was in Long Island sound off of Green Port, my heading was WSW and the wind was on the bow blowing 20-25. Wave heights were 4-8ft. My 280Conquest took no less than 7 waves over the bow and up the glass, and this was at 5 knots headway. I kept telling myself it's a "Whaler"... Was a hell of a long ride home. The only other suggestion I have is change your heading back to the dock ....
Norm
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| MW |
Posted on 07/25/09 - 6:54 PM
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All great advice, don't forget that you want to go into the waves at a 45* angle, "Tilt" slightly up, and "power" slightly up so that the "Stern" squat's down a little. This add's "Stability" to the Hull under "Power".
Matt |
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| CES |
Posted on 07/26/09 - 8:53 AM
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When I lived in the Florida keys and owned a 20' boat, I didn't go out when a small craft advisory was issued.
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
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| Jeff |
Posted on 07/26/09 - 9:29 AM
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Phil,
I agree on the bow high trim and throttle up the wave face and back down at the crest. I have to do this maneuver at times here on the great lakes and it will keep the waves from rolling over the bow. Some times Lake Erie will get 5-7+ footers stacked at 20 - 25 feet apart crest to crest.
Edited by Jeff on 07/26/09 - 9:31 AM
1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive |
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| DaveL |
Posted on 07/26/09 - 9:39 AM
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Wow! An 1100 GPM bilge pump! What do you have back there, a pump off an old fire truck and a Detroit Diesel to power it? I had a 20 Outrage and took on water once, but have never done it with my 22. You must be out in some weather!
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| Binkie |
Posted on 07/26/09 - 2:51 PM
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Its not good if your zipping along getting air, and you launch off the first wave trip the transom on the second which will drive the bow down into the third. It`s all over, be careful.
Rich |
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| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 07/26/09 - 6:39 PM
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Weather like that Phil is best enjoyed from my easy chair in front of the TV.
Kevin
1988 11' Super Sport, 1987 Johnson 15hp.
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
"Vegetarian - old Indian word for bad fisherman." |
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| Phil T |
Posted on 07/26/09 - 7:48 PM
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Thanks everyone.
I did note the few boats that were out were all much longer (22 +) and really throwing spray.
On my last outing during my return to the dock I did see a Conquest 205 throwing major spray. As we passed abeam of each other, I could see through his full curtain set the guy gave me a weird stare.
I think the combination of zig zagging, playing with speed and practice will help me overcome the lack of LOA.
If you think this is bad, I will skip my Montauk ice breaking and dodging ice flows in February stories.
PS. Bink - I learned that lesson last spring. Almost capsized.
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| Tig |
Posted on 07/26/09 - 8:01 PM
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I stuffed the bow two weeks ago deliberately. I was trying to make a point to my wife and her sister. Our plans to travel Lake Ontario to go for lunch became a bad idea when a 25 knot onshore wind came up and a small craft advisory was issued. The ladies thought it was fun to have a wave crash over the bow. I did it once more to amuse them and then turned back so the self bailing deck could catch up. Remind me not to let them borrow the Whaler.
I agree with the trim up slightly and run the large waves at an angle advice. I also like to make an effort to avoid breaking waves.
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| MW |
Posted on 07/27/09 - 2:09 AM
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I agree, weather like that (small craft advisory) is best viewed from shore but, "Tide" and "Wind" direction can change quickly, leaving you in the "Snot", when your out there. I was tempted to go out yesterday, "T-storm" warning but, sky's were mostly kinda clear, It was against my "Better" judgement to go out, glad it was, a storm came "Rippin" through here rather violently yesterday afternoon.
Matt |
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| Binkie |
Posted on 07/27/09 - 4:50 AM
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If you want to mess around in snotty weather get a 25' Bertram Bahia Mar. At about 20 mph it would fend off 4- 6 footers with ease, and any spray would be deflected by the windshield. However fishing in this type of water was a different story. It was lively to say the least.
Rich |
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| dauntless-n-miami |
Posted on 07/30/09 - 8:04 AM
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Stuffing a boats bow is no joke for the nerves. Some years back here in So. FLA. I had a friend coming back from a fishing trip entering the Miami Beach inlet when he let off the throttles just a bit, winds where from the east (at his back), he caught a set of rollers which pitched the stern up suddenly an plowed the bow of a 32 ft. open fisherman (Scarab type) into the first wave. The boat sunk in less than a minute and all aboard were thrown clear of the boat. Because it was an open fisherman it filled quickly with water and a suction effect took hold forcing it down so rapidly. There was no serious injuries or fatalities and the boat was eventually salvaged. I also stuffed a large speed boat some years back in that same location, weather condition and senario. My good fortune was that the boat was a closed long deck( Cigarette type) and not open fisherman. I was able to power through the wave which come over the entire length of the deck (30 feet worth) and emerged through the other side shaken but unharmed. Even a large boat can be overtaken by something so insignificant. These 2 evens occured during a beautifull sunny day with moderate wind gusts. Small boat owners (like myself presently) must heed boating advisories before going out and if impending foul weather precipitates an early return to the docks steer your vessel defensively against the surf and avoid second guessing yourself with steering imputs and navigation.
1996 Dauntless 15, Sportsman Pkg. - 2007 Yamaha 90 HP 2-Stroke |
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| CES |
Posted on 07/31/09 - 5:34 AM
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Dauntless....Yep, I know what you mean about those inlets. When the tide is on the move.....you'd better be a skilled boater with lots of power. Though I never have been in the Miami inlet, I have navigated through the Lighthouse point and Boca inlets many times in my youth.....and they can get pretty hairy.
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
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