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Helm Replacement - Advice on a Unique Situation
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| mattgeiger |
Posted on 03/31/09 - 4:17 PM
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I searched - but I have a unique situation.
My helm has been getting sloppier lately. I pulled everything apart. It is time for a replacement helm.
1986 Montauk 17
My helm appears to be the original Teleflex SH5023
The unique part:
The original owner had a new Teleflex SSC6218 cable installed just before I bought the boat 13 months ago(receipt verified). I don't use the boat much so the cable is still like new. No slop in it or at the motor connection. I really don't want to route a new cable either. Now - why the previous owner's mechanic didn't swap out the helm at this time - I don't know. I do know the prior cable was seized.
So I'm looking for a replacement helm, which will allow me to use the SSC6218 cable. An online retailer states that "the SSC6218 fits Teleflex Safe-T, Quick Connect helms, NFB (no feedback) helms".
Based on that - what helm do you guys recommend?
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 03/31/09 - 4:25 PM
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I believe you have the Safe-T now.
Some people like the NFB and some don't. Entirely up to the individual preferences here.
If money isn't an issue, it is very hard to beat the BayStar hydraulic system.
No steering cables to seize, easy to steer, and the motor stays where it is when you let go of the wheel or trailer the boat.
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| mattgeiger |
Posted on 03/31/09 - 4:33 PM
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Thanks Joe- The BayStar rig would be nice, but money is an issue since I got laid off 9 months ago. Plenty of time to work on the boat - not enough money to make her perfect.
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| Guts |
Posted on 03/31/09 - 4:39 PM
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I think you can buy what you need fairly easy either from Teleflex or any marine dealer. I have the BayStar hydraulic system like Joe mentioned, A good choice. But if money is tight, Google Teleflex and find the parts you need. That system is fairly easy to do and just about any one could replace part or put a new one in. There is a lot of good people on this site, that are willing to help as you all ready know.
added:
BTY I just looked at your personal page, I like the fuel cells.
Edited by Guts on 03/31/09 - 4:42 PM |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 03/31/09 - 4:44 PM
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Here's the Safe-T Rotary helm for $70, part number SH5094P
http://www.surplusunlimited.com/Merch...e=2200-110
And here is the Safe-T Helm for $110
http://www.surplusunlimited.com/Merch...e=2200-110
Not sure which one you need above. Do you have a number off of your old Helm?
You can check around for other prices but Surplus Unlimited does have competitive pricing.
Edited by Joe Kriz on 03/31/09 - 6:36 PM |
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| mattgeiger |
Posted on 03/31/09 - 5:42 PM
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I attached a photo.
"MFD BY TELEFLEX INC. USA."
"SINGLEHELM-SH5023"
"TWINHELM-SH5075"
How can you tell if it is rotary or not?
mattgeiger attached the following image:
[41.47Kb]
Edited by mattgeiger on 03/31/09 - 5:43 PM |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 03/31/09 - 5:49 PM
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I think you want the $110 one which is part number SH5023P
This unit uses the nut on your steering cable. Does your cable use Nuts?
or clips?
The cheaper one is a different part number and is a newer style.
This unit uses clips instead of the nut for the steering cable.
Which type of cable?
Edited by Joe Kriz on 03/31/09 - 5:52 PM |
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| mattgeiger |
Posted on 03/31/09 - 5:59 PM
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Nut or clip? Looks like a nut fastening the cable to the helm, but there is a clip there too.
Here's a pic.
mattgeiger attached the following image:
[61.76Kb]
Edited by mattgeiger on 03/31/09 - 6:00 PM |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 03/31/09 - 6:04 PM
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Matt,
Here's what it looks like to me.
You have the clip type cable.
You also have the converter for the cable from the clip to the nut. This converter is threaded onto your old helm and then the new cable clips on to the converter.
Very Important.
You are also missing your spent travel tube cover in the top of the helm.
That cable you see sticking out is greasy and needs the travel tube cover.
Teleflex sells these separately if your new unit doesn't come with one.
I think all you need is the cheaper helm but I would talk to teleflex to make sure.
Then you would not use the cable converter as you would clip it directly to the new less expensive unit.
Save the cable converter....
Edited by Joe Kriz on 03/31/09 - 6:07 PM |
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| mattgeiger |
Posted on 03/31/09 - 6:09 PM
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Joe -
Thanks so much for the help. This site is priceless.
If you're ever in Atlanta, let me know and I'll buy ya a beer and take you out on Lake Lanier if you have time.
Matt
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 03/31/09 - 6:28 PM
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Matt,
Where's Atlanta............. 
Thanks, you never know where I might show up......
Here is some more info on the newer style Safe-T QC which uses the new style cables with the clip.
Model number #SH5094P which I gave you the link and price of $70 above.
http://www.teleflexmarine.com/documen...5_1086.pdf
As you can see in the link above, the "Spent Travel Tube" is part #SA35680P
You definitely want this if it does not come with the new helm.
Edited by Joe Kriz on 03/31/09 - 6:38 PM |
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| brooks89 |
Posted on 03/31/09 - 10:05 PM
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I was all set to buy a new helm and wound up fixing my old one for around $7.
Not sure my helm is a Teleflex (it looks like one but doesn't have any markings that I can see) but I had a worsening slop problem and was able to cure it completely by removing the steering shaft from the helm unit and replacing the worn out flanged clip sleeve bearings that take up the play between the steering shaft and the helm unit. Note that on my helm the shaft runs all the way through the unit and is held in place by a washer and cotter pin on the bottom side.
If you can remove the shaft on the old Teleflex unit you might just need to replace those sleeve bearings. If you are interested in more details on where to get them and what to ask for let me know...
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| mattgeiger |
Posted on 04/01/09 - 3:48 AM
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brooks89 wrote:
I was all set to buy a new helm and wound up fixing my old one for around $7.
If you can remove the shaft on the old Teleflex unit you might just need to replace those sleeve bearings. If you are interested in more details on where to get them and what to ask for let me know...
I'll pull mine apart today to see before I order the new unit. May as well post your fix since it may fix mine, and there's surely others here that may be interested.
Thanks
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| mattgeiger |
Posted on 04/01/09 - 5:59 AM
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Ok - Old helm is off. The slop isn't so much in the bushings. I believe the internals are worn.
Question: How do I pull this adapter off? I've contacted Teleflex, but had to leave a message.
mattgeiger attached the following image:
[48.2Kb]
Edited by mattgeiger on 04/01/09 - 6:00 AM |
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| brooks89 |
Posted on 04/01/09 - 7:07 AM
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Looks like you are showing the adapter still attached to the quick connect steering cable and it appears to clamp onto the cable. Have tried removing the screws that hold the two halves of the adapter together? If you are replacing the helm with a new style quick connect fitting you won't need this adapter any more.
I repaired my helm using flanged clip sleeve bearings from Grainger. They are Grainger's item #2NCG5 and2NCG8 a bag of five of each will set you back about $7. (note Grainger's published specs on the 2NCG8 are incorrect. The length is 1 1/8", not 15/16" and they work perfectly.)
If the slop you are experiencing consists of side to side looseness of the steering shaft, replacing those bearings should cure it. Be aware also that a few inches of free play rotationally is normal in rotary/cable steering systems...
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| mattgeiger |
Posted on 04/01/09 - 7:17 AM
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Got the adapter off. The halves were my first thought but it looks like Teleflex shears off the bolt heads in production. Even new units I saw pics of on the net showed no bolt heads. There was a hole on the side (visible in the pic - you can see the gold zinc plated locking mechanism)where the clip can be used to depress the locking mechanism. I'm feeling my way through this - not feeling like the smartest guy at times.
Some of the play was in the internals. Some play was coming from the wheel/shaft . The threads on the shaft were previously stripped, and it took some pulling upward in the wheel to get the nut to bite and finally back off. I bet this is why the previous mechanic left the helm on. I suspect the wheel was not able to be fully tightened, therefore loose on the shaft - accounting for additional play.
I spoke with Teleflex. I have ordered a No-Feedback Safe-T II helm #SH4910P from the guys Joe mentioned above.
Edited by mattgeiger on 04/01/09 - 7:55 AM |
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| brooks89 |
Posted on 04/01/09 - 8:10 AM
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You'll be good with that. Enjoy!
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 04/01/09 - 11:11 AM
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Matt,
Just out of curiosity.
Did Teleflex recommend buying the SH4910P with 4.2 turns lock to lock?
SH4910P
Or, could you have ordered the Safe-T II Helm SH5150 with 3 turns lock to lock?
SH5150
Both of the above are NFB, No Feed Back systems.
One last question.
Did the new unit come with the "Spent Travel Tube" ?
Thanks
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| mattgeiger |
Posted on 04/01/09 - 11:19 AM
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Joe Kriz wrote:
Matt,
Just out of curiosity.
Did Teleflex recommend buying the SH4910P with 4.2 turns lock to lock?
SH4910P
Or, could you have ordered the Safe-T II Helm SH5150 with 3 turns lock to lock?
SH5150
Both of the above are NFB, No Feed Back systems.
One last question.
Did the new unit come with the "Spent Travel Tube" ?
Thanks
Teleflex recommended the SH4910P, then offered the SH5150P as an alternative. There should be a spent travel tube in the box - I am having that confirmed. I also ordered a bezel per Teleflex - SB27150P.
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| boatingallday |
Posted on 05/10/10 - 6:21 PM
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My mechanic tells me Teleflex no longer makes the SH5075 dual helm cable steering. Does anyone have any experience converting a double to a single SH5023 and what effects that would have on the handling of the boat? I also see that the one poster had a conversion kit to make the old nut tighten cables fit on a new helm system with the pins?
any advice?
Thanks
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