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Motor guidance for a new whaler owner
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| Thundergod |
Posted on 11/20/15 - 12:40 PM
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I just purchased a 1987 guardian 18 with out an engine. I would appreciate some guidance the boat will be used in my marine towing business. I primarily tow small pleasure boats under 30 foot at slow speeds so fuel consumption and thrust are my two main issues with a small amount of recreation use fishing and water skiing.
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| Reel Easy |
Posted on 11/20/15 - 1:20 PM
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I can't offer much advice about specific engines, however I would suggest using twins to insure you are the "tower" and not the "towee".
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| mtown |
Posted on 11/20/15 - 3:14 PM
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boat from Wisconsin?
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 11/20/15 - 3:21 PM
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Lots of good choices.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...ticle_id=6
What dealer near you has a good, better, best reputation?
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| Phil T |
Posted on 11/20/15 - 4:42 PM
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These days it the one factor that differentiates one brand against another is dealer network.
If you don't have a local service provider X nearby, consider the other brands.
While the Guardian/Outrage 18 came with a 150 hp motor, for your usage, I would be more concerned with displacement.
Mercury, BPR, Suzuki, Honda, Yamaha all make very good and reliable 150 hp motors. Fuel economy with 4 stroke or DFI is very good. As for thrust, it will come down to prop selection.
For props, I would not go with a engine dealer's advice but rather a prop specialist (I.e. Ken at Prop Gods) who know all the brands, 3 vs 4 bladed etc.
I think pricing/dealer network is going to help you decide. Get detailed quotes listing every item and price. Don't let the give you just one final #.
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| Thundergod |
Posted on 11/20/15 - 7:28 PM
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Evinrude is the best boat the dealer but is closing. There is a merc shop that doesn't have good mechanics
other than that I'm out of luck for dealers the evinrude dealer said they will work on all but the g2 series
once they close the dealership.
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| Thundergod |
Posted on 11/20/15 - 7:29 PM
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Thanks for the tips
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| bradsc |
Posted on 11/21/15 - 5:15 AM
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Arizona......finding a good local dealer sounds like it is tough. Sounds like you may have to take a road trip! I would go to the top end of the HP rating since you want to tow boats and a skier. Looks like 150HP. The right prop will make a big difference. Call Phil T's prop suggestion for advice on a good pulling prop. I guess you can look at it two ways, since it is a business boat, do you need to keep cost down or pay a little more for hopefully better reliability. Yamaha and Honda are what I would consider higher end motors and you are going to pay more for them. I noticed Seatow in Charleston has switched to Suzuki. Good luck. Set up a personal page and show us some pictures of your Guardian.
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| Sjoconnor |
Posted on 11/21/15 - 6:31 AM
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I have a Mercury 150 four stroke on my 20' Outrage. The engine has a big displacement for a 150 and I've towed a few boats up to 30 feet and never a problem. Towing day after day might yield different results but I'm extremely impressed by this motor.
Stephen.
1989 20' Outrage, 2013 Mercury 150hp Four Stroke |
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| butchdavis |
Posted on 11/21/15 - 8:10 AM
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Because it looks like you'll likely have to go out of town for service it looks like you're going to have to do a lot of research to find a great service source. All other things being equal I would seriously consider a 200 HP Verado for your boat. The engine has a good power to weight ratio with incredible torque. Otherwise I'd choose an engine with good power to weight at 150 to 200 HP. The newish Mercury 150 has been growing an excellent reliability record and is designed with several features to simplify owner maintenance. Check out www.veradoclub.com for a lot of good Verado information.
Butch |
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| tedious |
Posted on 11/21/15 - 1:25 PM
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Thunder, for your usage model I would definitely suggest powering to the maximum horsepower; that's 150 for the Outrage version but I don't know what it is for your Guardian. Twins may give you greater maneuverability, but are a lot more expensive, and overkill for an 18 especially as I don't think you'll be going offshore in Arizona.
There are many good choices for 150s - be sure to get a modern, fuel-injected motor, and you'll be happy with good mileage and a quiet ride. Avoid the older Mercury Optimax - you might save a couple of bucks, but they are noisy and high maintenance compared to newer motors. Likewise, I would avoid the Mercury Verado, especially as finding good service may be a challenge - you don't want the additional complexity of a supercharger.
I would seriously consider an eTec 150 HO as a first choice, especially if your local person will be able to maintain it. The normally aspirated Merc 150 would also be good, as would the Yamaha F150.
Tim
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| butchdavis |
Posted on 11/21/15 - 5:01 PM
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I don't believe there is any such limitation as "maximum horsepower" for classic Whalers. Maximum engine weight is, perhaps, a better limiting factor for repowering considerations.
Butch |
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| Thundergod |
Posted on 11/24/15 - 7:29 AM
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I was curious about that as well 1 was think either a 150 verado
Or the Suzuki 140 do to its lighter weight. One of my friends suggested that
The merc was th best choice but it seems like a very complicated engine.
I was told the Hondas where built proof but when I research them it seems like there very heavy and prone to water in the cylinders
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| Phil T |
Posted on 11/24/15 - 8:10 AM
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Some engines have minimum requirements for gauges and steering that others don't.
Mercury Verado is a highly sophisticated motor. Mercury introduced a few years ago a non-Verado 150hp 4 stroke that several Whaler owners have installed as repowers and have give it good reviews.
https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/e...ke/150-hp/
You can see this document for weights:
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...ticle_id=6
As you narrow down candidates, detailed pricing will help you considerably. There could be as much as a 3K difference between quotes.
Motor
Hydraulic Steering or Cable
Throttle
Main Harness(s)
Multifunction Gauge #1
Multifunction Gauge #2
Prop
Install Labor
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| Marko888 |
Posted on 11/26/15 - 10:06 AM
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The Suzuki DF140 is a great engine (I have one on my 18) but it is not the best choice for towing, as it has less low end torque than all the 150's due to smaller displacement. It's strengths are quiet running, exceptional fuel economy and reliability.
For an 18 mostly used for towing boats and skiiers, i'd choose an E-TEC small block V6. (135HO - 200)
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| ShadBurke |
Posted on 11/28/15 - 9:21 AM
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On the 18 guardian, best to stay with a single motor since stern weight is critical for proper handling. The 18 gaurdian max is 150 hp and about 475 lbs +/-. Four stroke twins will put you over that weight even with twin f70 yamahas.
Move all batteries to the console, replace the fuel tank and all wiring and plumbing. If the transom was cut down to a 20" motor shaft length, high likelihood that the under deck fuel tank cavity is all foamed in and there is an above deck fuel cell. Some agencies wanted to run smaller hp motors that are not available in a 25" shaft length, hence the 5" notch.
I am sure I have an extra tow post and line spool if you need it from one of the last sixteen guardian rebuilds I did. Ideally, you are going to fab one up with an integrated engine guard. I usually raise the splash well divider to the top of the gunnels to avoid significant water entry from rear.
As for motors, hard to beat the honda 150 or the new yamaha f150 with 8 dog tooth lower unit (previous versions had 6 dog teeth and not as strong). If significant towing, best to have a spare lower unit since thats what goes first. Local harbor patrol here run honda 150s and see 10,000-14,000 hours on powerheads. Not the case on lower units.....
Local commercial operators see 5,000+ hours on yamaha f150s before repowering for economic reasons, not motor issues.
Hope that helps.
Edited by ShadBurke on 11/28/15 - 9:30 AM |
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| Thundergod |
Posted on 11/28/15 - 5:11 PM
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i would be interested in the take off tow post you might have available
i am compelling a list of parts to find. for the rebuild so far its a the front storage / anchor space,
also looking for the small plate to side of the console i will be starting the deconstruction tomorrow.
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| ShadBurke |
Posted on 11/29/15 - 8:49 PM
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Send me a message with picture on the plate, i have more stuff in the shop than needed.
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| Thundergod |
Posted on 12/01/15 - 5:52 PM
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Sweet
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| Thundergod |
Posted on 12/02/15 - 7:54 PM
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Ok so the boat goes to the glass shop tomorrow for transom repair and sand blasting to remove the old paint on top of the gelcoat
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