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Jack Plates 22ft Outrage
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| rbritdu |
Posted on 10/13/15 - 5:59 AM
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Hello ,
I am looking for a suggestion on what Jack Plate works best on a 1979 V 22 Outrage . I have my 25 inch 2000 225 Yamaha mounted all the way up but the lower part of the engine still rest in the water when tilted all the way up ? I d like the engine free and clear of the water when not in use ..
What works best ?
Thank you,
Bob
1979 V-22 Outrage, 225 HP Yamaha |
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| wading mark |
Posted on 10/13/15 - 6:05 AM
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Bob's JP and nothing else but get the one with the pump separate from the JP. The one with the pump inside the JP doesn't seem to do well in saltwater. I wouldn't own a 22 or 25 Outrage without a JP. They just run so much better with one.
Edited by wading mark on 10/13/15 - 6:05 AM |
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| Phil T |
Posted on 10/13/15 - 9:30 AM
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Hold on a sec.
An engine's mounting height is for performance.
Typically the anti-acv plate is 1-2" above the bottom of the keel. This is expressed as 2 or 3 holes up. Some motors and/or props like to be deeper or shallower.
What is the performance of the boat with the engine 3 holes up? WOT rpm's? What prop do you have on the boat.
If you really want to get the engine out of the water, place weight in the bow. If you stand in the bow, is the engine clear of the water?
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| gchuba |
Posted on 10/14/15 - 4:35 AM
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I believe we both have the same hull. Mine is a 1979 22' Revenge which is the Outrage with a cuddy. I have a jack plate on my boat. The first one was a 6" Springfield Marine and I now have a 10" Bob's Machine hydraulic. I have yet to operate the 10" but was pleased with the 6". The nicest feature was it gave more deck space by the transom. I went with the 10" so I could have a removable splash board while drift fishing. My motors (1st 235hp Johnson now 200hp Eterc) had 25" shafts. Do scrutinize what Phil said. The manual jack plate I had was not something you would adjust while in the water. Get your performance dialed in and then determine the next step. My motor was out of the water when tilted all the way up. I still have the Springfield Marine Jack Plate which has Type III black anodizing and would sell it.
Garris
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| Phil T |
Posted on 10/14/15 - 10:33 AM
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Garris -
Please clarify, you referring to horizontal setback or vertical rise?
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| gchuba |
Posted on 10/14/15 - 5:59 PM
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Phil,
When my boat was "dialed in" with the 6" jack plate and the 1981 Johnson 235 hp outboard, my motor was completely out of the water when in my slip and fully raised. I originally left it submerged but it trashed the old original paint. My anti-acv plate was about 3" above the keel when lowered all the way. The adjustment was done with the jack plate, not holes up. With my trim tabs it was an excellent ride.I will say that Springfield jack plate is one well built piece of hardware. My boat currently has all the through drains out as we had both a hot summer and poor fishing season so I resigned myself to installing all my goodies, auto pilot, hydraulic steering, radar, downvision, etc... including a hard top modified from another Whaler. Looking forward to next year. I have no experience with the 10" jack plate other than I love the full deck and splash board. Will be letting all know how it works.
The extra room, however subtle with the 6" plate, sure made the boat feel larger. I have a 17" tall 1" stainless rail on both gunnels and wraps around the transom (about 35" above the deck). A cooler seat leaning post in the middle of the deck. The motor offset truly helped.
Garris
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| Phil T |
Posted on 10/15/15 - 4:13 PM
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So these are setback brackets.
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| gchuba |
Posted on 10/15/15 - 8:35 PM
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Yes, I always thought when referring to a jack plate the motor is always set back. They have the very narrow ones which make them more of a convenience to raise and lower. I was debating getting an Armstrong bracket (or keep my eyes peeled for a Whaler Drive...one did come up once) but preferred the jack plate for fishing line clearance.
Garris
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| Silentpardner |
Posted on 10/15/15 - 11:15 PM
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A true jackplate is not set back from the transom any more than the distance required for the thickness of the 2 plates that are required to enable up and down positioning of the attached engine. A setback jackplate, such as gchuba appears to be using, is a different animal entirely, as it adds leverage from the transom to the actual motor mount plate, and affects the ENTIRE BOAT.
It appears that gchuba, when citing the sizing of his jackplates, is indicating the setback from the transom as his dimension of choice in his own descriptions of his jackplate apparatus.
. PhilT, is only addressing the true measure of the up and down travel of an actual jackplate in his responses.
It is very important to remember that the distance from a transom that the jackplate actually raises and lowers the engine ,i.e. setback, (the dimension of choice for gchubs in his replies in this thread), will directly affect the performance the engine/prop that is attached any boats transom.
Be very cautious using setback from your transom for engine mounting on a classic Boston Whaler. It is very easy to install too much setback distance from transom on these boats, and the end result will be problematic. The most common problems reported with too much setback is a porpoising effect on the boat, as well as a very dramatic effect on the boat's waterline, especially at the stern. The bow height of the boat, at rest and underway, is affected in a very noticeable way and the stern will be lowered as well in relation to the waterline, when setback from the original motor mounting position on the transom is extended on any classic Boston Whaler.
gchub has not actually tested his setback from the transom that he claims to have installed on his undocumented, (NO PHOTOS IN EXISTENCE PUBLICALY), 22 Revenge. Absolutely ZERO public photos exist that document the way this boat he claims to own sits in the water at rest or underway, either before or after these, or MANY OTHER MODIFICATIONS were supposedly made on the boat he claims to own and modify here in this forum.
There are NO PICTURES of the boat he claims to have made these installations. There are NO PICTURES of this specific jackplate installation available on the ENTIRE INTERNET, on ANY 22' Boston Whaler Revengs model. There are NO VERIFIED AND DOCUMENTED TESTS of the apparatus gchub describes textually here on this site as viable on ANY classic 22' Boston Whaler,
to my knowledge.
Just A WORD TO THE WISE here, I would certainly hope that gchub will step up here and support his statements of expertise on the 22' he claims to own and modify in this forum VERY SOON, or stop posting on this forum as an expert just as quickly.
I am hopeful that my concerns as to the expertise of this particular member, gchub, will be satisfactorily addressed by him ASAP.
Phil T is a very experienced Boston Whaler owner that has posted very many expert opinions across the entire internet, (not just this site), and he has been entrusted by the owners of this website as an administrator of this site. I certainly hope that viewers of this thread will weigh their individual judgements based on Phil T's experienced comments in this thread.
gchub's comments on this site, in my opinion, should be minimized by readers, at least until he is able to post photo and documentation supporting his claims of expertise on 22' Boston Whalers, or ANY OTHER MODELS.
Sorry if this offends anyone, this is just common sense, and needs to be stated clearly on this site and in this thread IMHO.
Edited by Silentpardner on 10/15/15 - 11:26 PM |
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| gchuba |
Posted on 10/16/15 - 5:47 AM
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Silentpardner,
Why this personal attack????? Is it because when contributing to electrical issues whenever we were at odds with advice you were always wrong? Then we do not hear from you for a while.
1. All jack plates set back the motor.....I guess with your measuring you consider a 2" set back or thickness of the material flush. Please do not put wood trim on my house when I request flush cut.
2. I did not suddenly wake up and decide I was a jack plate specialist. I study and read before I do things (maybe you should try). The first article was in Continuous Wave: Boston Whaler: Reference: Engine Brackets. Whaler themselves offered a factory option for engine set backs with the Gil Bracket and Sea Drive. They also offered a Sea Drive Blank which allowed you to put on a set back of your choice.
3. A companion article called "Standard Transoms and Brackets" also goes into more detail about after market brackets with specific reference to the Springfield Jack Plate. That is the very reason I tracked down my original jack plate even though they were out of production do to a fire at the company years ago. I agree with the article about how well built the Springfield jack plate is. Especially standing side by side next to a current manufacturer's (which I sent back because I did not like the thickness of materials used in construction).
4. Both articles give special thanks to Larry Goltz (Finnegan) who is a contributor on this site.
5. I am done with defending myself from your abusive text. When I see a contribution from you in the future, I will not read it because it reminds me of a passage from Shakespeare "....a tale told by an idiot....full of sound and fury....signifying nothing.....".
My apologies to all on this site for this degeneration of communication. I/we all contribute for the sharing of information and not other agendas.
Very Sincerely,
Garris
Edited by gchuba on 10/16/15 - 5:56 AM |
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| EJO |
Posted on 10/16/15 - 11:50 AM
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Gee you two must not get along. Sorry to hear as from my experience you both add to the information given on this site and elswhere on the internet. I do know from experience that Garris does research his Whaler topics to the extreme, going all over the world and out of his way researching and trying to get parts for his 22'. Why would he do that if he doesn't own a 22' he's restoring?
Not so in the near past, you had to read books, & articles in a library and/or listen face to face to receive info and advice. Now it is at your finger tips with the push of a button, but you still have to make your own conclusions and take it as it is dished out all over the net.
Just my 2 cents worth, but hey I'm pretty new to this side and brand and only have 50 years experience in boating and maintaining them myself and can on 1 hand count the times I required "professional" help.
Sorry guys.
Regards,
E-J
Skipper E-J
m/v "Clumsy Cleat" a 2008 Montauk 150 |
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| MG56 |
Posted on 10/19/15 - 1:53 PM
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Wow, and people say I have no social skills.
SilentPardner, (and I seriously doubt you are anything close to silent), I love your 27 and I can appreciate what you "know", b#################################### I also get the distinct impression that you look down your nose at us poor Whaler owners that don't/can't toss a checkbook at a boat.
Everyone on this site says something wrong, it is just a matter of time, even your heroes. The advice is a collective and I do judge Garris, and while I don't judge him as an expert I trust what he says as a person working thru problems, as we all find ourselves doing.
Garris, it would be nice to see some pictures of your boat, especially when you are working thru your more involved projects. Plus I love to see Whaler pictures.
This request is coming from someone that has like one photo of a dirty boat on purchase day, I forget how long ago. I've sold that boat twice and bought it 3 times. I think I am going to keep it this time and name it Boomerang.
I'd really love for SP to take a video of him ramping up his twin Yammi 300's, but he probably hates me now. But come on, there is nothing better than the song of a pair of powerful outboards. I have a love affair with old Merc towers and the saying goes, " What is better than a Merc tower? Two of them"
(Moderator Edit- Remember the rules, no personal attacks.]
Edited by Phil T on 10/20/15 - 8:38 AM |
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| MG56 |
Posted on 10/19/15 - 1:56 PM
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PS, only a moron didn't know Garris was talking about setback. Maybe one of the genius' should have had the op confirm his shaft length.
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| gchuba |
Posted on 10/19/15 - 9:17 PM
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MG56,
I appreciate your civilized request for pictures. By choice I leave picture taking and posting such, as a skill I prefer not possess. I do not text. My cell phone is just a flip up that receives and makes calls. My intention was to have my wife photo the finished product and then struggle through posting. However, your wanting to see the struggles would be something I will kick around. My greatest struggle was with the jack plate. The easiest solution would have been to enclose the transom with proper reinforcement as Whaler did but I did not want to lose the self bailing feature which drew me to the boat. I retrofit the transom reinforcement As Is. I will make a concerned effort to take pictures. Hopefully you will not get wise to the fact I will be creating images in photo shop (down to the gravel on my driveway) as a ruse so I can continue to offer assistance of construction I never did. Possibly go down to the boat yard where a boat is being worked on that I want to take credit for.
Garris
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| EJO |
Posted on 10/20/15 - 6:43 AM
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MG56 I assume you are a masochist like myself, classic boats and English sports cars? Been there done that and picked up some knowledge on the way as I too can't throw a checkbook at it. Well said and in agreement with both your postings above.
Garris just have your wife send me the pictures and we'll get them published. You have my email from all the knowledge correspondence we had in the past. Forget the photo-shopping it is too much work. It's just easier to take a picture of the boat.
Skipper E-J
m/v "Clumsy Cleat" a 2008 Montauk 150 |
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| cdnwhaler |
Posted on 10/20/15 - 7:00 AM
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For what it's worth...
I have a 1984 Outrage 22 with a Springfield set back bracket.
Motor is a 2002 225 hp Evinrude with a MiragePlus propeller.
With some fine tuning of the height using a wrench (not hydraulic) I'm very happy with my performance and fuel use. Also, I have a Rule pump in my stern well which I had before I added the bracket.
If one types "Boston Whaler setback bracket" in Google other Whalers will show up.
1984 Outrage 22 |
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| Phil T |
Posted on 10/20/15 - 8:42 AM
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Moderator comment.
The original poster has not replied to the 15 replies but members have been dissing each other.
Remember the rules, be polite and constructive.
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| rbritdu |
Posted on 10/21/15 - 6:34 AM
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Hello Guys ,
It looks like a started something here ? Thank you all for your comments . I am not sure if I need a set back or just a lift to get the Engine out of the water when not in use ? I thought a Jack Plate would be a some what easy fix . They can be pricey ? If I can get away with a simple screw type and not mess with the way the boat proformance . I will do so . Do you think I can just get a 6 inch set back screw lift not hydraulic and have my engine tilt out of the water .. I am happy with overall boat handling currently .
Thanks again .
Bob
1979 V-22 Outrage, 225 HP Yamaha |
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| JRP |
Posted on 10/21/15 - 9:12 AM
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The problem I see for you with adding a set-back plate is that you could lose as much height as you gain, due to the fore-and-aft center of bouyancy shifting aft and the transom sinking deeper in the water. When an engine is set-back from the transom without any hull beneath it to provide buoyancy, the leverage of the engine overhanging the water without bouyancy beneath it causes the bow to rise and the stern to sink. The set back plate may allow you to raise the height of the engine to a setting beyond what you could achieve when simply bolted to the transom, but the effect may be negated by stern squat. This suggests that if you do go with a set back plate, you should choose one with the least amount of setback to minimize the squatting as much as possible.
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| MG56 |
Posted on 10/21/15 - 12:05 PM
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rbritdu wrote:
Hello Guys ,
It looks like a started something here ? Thank you all for your comments . I am not sure if I need a set back or just a lift to get the Engine out of the water when not in use ? I thought a Jack Plate would be a some what easy fix . They can be pricey ? If I can get away with a simple screw type and not mess with the way the boat proformance . I will do so . Do you think I can just get a 6 inch set back screw lift not hydraulic and have my engine tilt out of the water .. I am happy with overall boat handling currently .
Thanks again .
In post #4 Garris offered to sell you exactly what you are looking for. In post #3 Phil said put more weight in the bow, that is another way to go and probably the one I would try first.
Edited by MG56 on 10/21/15 - 12:13 PM |
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