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Sad News & Whaler Missing
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| FASTFJR |
Posted on 12/06/09 - 3:56 PM
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Am I correct in saying the boat did not have a boarding ladder?
2007 Dauntless 180-2007 Mercury Verado 150 |
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| Mark Finkenstaedt |
Posted on 12/06/09 - 8:26 PM
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I wouldn't have my 83 year old Dad out there even on a good day, he's fit as a fiddle but balance is a big problem for most at that age. Maybe with a young and nimble crew. It's not difficult to topple a 83 year old in a swell. It's a crying shame these things happen.
Sympathy to the families.
2001 18' Dauntless - 150HP 2010 E-TEC |
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| Guts |
Posted on 12/06/09 - 9:21 PM
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Not enough information to say... I wonder if they were warring boots? When overboard they are like a anchor, I know of a person who lost there life that way. and to top it off his youngest son was holding him by the hands and could not let go to get a line.eather way he was gone. A very sad thing I haven't thought of this in years until now reading this.
His name was the old man that was what every one called him / Paul Hawkins / RIP
Edited by Guts on 12/06/09 - 9:32 PM |
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| MW |
Posted on 12/07/09 - 12:44 AM
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I wear "Old Sneakers" tied very loosely when operating the boat, thay way if I go in the water accidentally, I can still kick them off and swim. An old Captain taught me that one, It work's !
Matt |
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| arthureld |
Posted on 12/07/09 - 5:20 AM
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You'd need to strip off most of your clothes because they'll pull you down as well.
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| JohnnyCW |
Posted on 12/07/09 - 8:37 AM
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The loss outlined in this thread is indeed tragic.
There are a lot of considerations when discussing this sort of loss and related safety issues. Going overboard can get real serious, real quick.
Water temperature is a huge factor. The water temp had to be around the mid fifties, maybe less in this particular case. With all other factors aside, the water temp alone is enough to quickly temporarily disable all but the healthiest and fittest person, even a good swimmer. Throw in a choppy sea and things go from bad to worse very quickly. All it takes is just one bad breath and a mouthful of water and self recovery can be almost impossible. One or both could have even been injured or ill going into the water.
PFDs would seem to me to have been one of the most basic safety considerations that the boaters did not use. Even so, colder water temperatures can cause unconsciousness relatively quickly. Temps in the fifties may provide some only an hour or two at best. Maybe if each where wearing a PFD, it could have provided the extra few minutes of survivability needed to be discovered by someone that could have assisted in a successful rescue.
Most clothing will actually aid in helping keep a victim afloat. Especially winter clothing which can easily trap a significant amount of air. Of course anyone with $50 worth if pennies in their pockets may have an issue. Clothing can also help stave off hypothermia significantly better than floating around in your boxers. However anyone that doesn't have experience or training in the water while clothed, will feel a sense of panic and usually quickly shed what they can if they can. Most wet clothing floats, something to think about. Most adults float pretty well too, especially the female gender. We just don't automatically float well with our nose and mouth clear of the water. Boots and shoes need to go IF you have no PFD. Keep the boots or shoes if you do have a PFD.
In the first 24 hours, we almost always find adult drowning victims floating, even with full clothing and shoes. Kids sink like a stone and will stay down the first few days. Perhaps a morbid mention but its something I have too much experience with.
Our weather gets a little more dicey this time of year and water temps are dropping. It always catches a few unprepared and some will pay the ultimate price.
I boat all year around here in Florida but I wont take my family out into open water during the colder months. Its not that we're not well prepared, it just that even well prepared, modestly cold water temperatures can be a quick death warrant when unexpected circumstances fall into place providing little time for rescue.
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| Guts |
Posted on 12/07/09 - 11:19 AM
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Now I feel I have to clarify what I said.
Guts wrote:I wonder if they were warring boots?
These are boots that slip over your shoes or shocks in my case. Mine were two sizes to big so they could be kicked off if I had to, after all it not like you are running a race in them. The man I was talking about had boots and helly hansen slickers on.
The slickers cling to the boots and make them hard to kick off when under water.
Edited by Guts on 12/07/09 - 11:22 AM |
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| arthureld |
Posted on 12/07/09 - 12:49 PM
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JohnnyCW wrote:Most clothing will actually aid in helping keep a victim afloat.
That has not been my experience.
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| modenacart |
Posted on 12/07/09 - 1:46 PM
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Clothing can be used to create floating devices. They are great, but it works.
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
--Benjamin Franklin |
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| arthureld |
Posted on 12/07/09 - 2:21 PM
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Throw on a couple extra pairs of jeans and you won't need a PFD. lol Don't try this in water over your head.
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| JohnnyCW |
Posted on 12/07/09 - 3:34 PM
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arthureld wrote:
JohnnyCW wrote:Most clothing will actually aid in helping keep a victim afloat.
That has not been my experience. The lead lined xray technicians apron probably isn't the most appropriate boating wear.
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| CES |
Posted on 12/07/09 - 4:29 PM
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Cold water is especially dangerous because loss of body heat occurs 25 times faster in cold water than in cold air. How quickly you become hypothermic depends on many factors, including your personality and behavior, environmental factors, how you are dressed, your age, and physical condition.
If used properly, clothing could also be used as flotation devices too. Ideally if one is in cold water they should keep all their clothes on as it provides a layer of insulation, however slight.
With water temperatures ranging between 50° – 60°, the expected time before exhaustion or unconsciousness is typically 1 – 2 hours with an expected time of survival of about 1 – 6 hours.
Everyone reacts differently to the cold, even under the same conditions. Generally, children lose body heat more quickly than adults. Thin people lose body heat faster than overweight people.
Edited by CES on 12/07/09 - 4:33 PM
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
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| MW |
Posted on 12/07/09 - 4:53 PM
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yea, their are so many factor's here, and we don't really know the conditions, if you have waves crashing down on you even a PFD won't help, even with 60*F (water temp.) "Hypothermia" is a very real possibility.
Matt |
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| arthureld |
Posted on 12/07/09 - 11:52 PM
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JohnnyCW wrote:
arthureld wrote:
JohnnyCW wrote:Most clothing will actually aid in helping keep a victim afloat.
That has not been my experience. The lead lined xray technicians apron probably isn't the most appropriate boating wear.
Almost forgot, the old guys must have been drunk because with all of your experience, 100% of boating accidents involve drunks.
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| Guts |
Posted on 12/08/09 - 1:13 AM
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Ok Guys Play Nice Or We Might Find A Lock On the Gate At The Sand Box...
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| JohnnyCW |
Posted on 12/08/09 - 6:40 AM
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arthureld wrote:
Almost forgot, the old guys must have been drunk because with all of your experience, 100% of boating accidents involve drunks.
How inappropriate. Now your just simply making things up as I've never posted such information.
Edited by JohnnyCW on 12/08/09 - 6:41 AM |
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| CES |
Posted on 12/08/09 - 7:20 AM
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You guys turned a post about a tragic event into a joking matter. We could have used this post as a teaching tool instead of an arguement between members. Shameful.
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
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| Josey Whaler |
Posted on 12/08/09 - 7:28 AM
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Ah Cliff, half of the thread was spent debunking your inappropriate and ill-informed assertion foul flay was involved. Yes, one thing you taught us was NOT to express opinions without any facts. That is indeed a good lesson learned (I hope).
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| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 12/08/09 - 7:49 AM
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Josey, I don't think your kind of attitude is warranted. "Debunking your inappropriate and ill-informed assertion foul flay was involved" it was merely an opinion, much like the one you are posting. Cliff, like myself, are entitled to our opinions and have been before you joined this site. I think this thread should be closed before somebody really speaks their mind.
Kevin
1988 11' Super Sport, 1987 Johnson 15hp.
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
"Vegetarian - old Indian word for bad fisherman." |
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| Josey Whaler |
Posted on 12/08/09 - 8:45 AM
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Kevin, I'm sorry you seem to be offended by my comments. If you are suggesting jumping to knee-jerk conclusions publicly with little or no supportive information on this or any other matter is appropriate, then I think you are in the minority. You are certainly free to make such assertions, but as I suggested before, they rarely predict an accurate accounting of any event. I expressed NO opinion on this event because I have nothing but very small amount of information regarding this tragic event to base any opinion on. I did express an opinion on knee-jerk, ill-informed conclusions noted above. Are you suggesting such conclusions are a good practice? Ignorance is indeed expensive.
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