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Re-powering - What to do - Engine trouble
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| Phil T |
Posted on 05/22/09 - 8:51 AM
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That invoice is just scary. Don't go back there!
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT |
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| theo |
Posted on 05/22/09 - 8:52 AM
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Mark Finkenstaedt wrote: How bad was I gutted?
They split you open and danced on yer innards!
Mark Finkenstaedt wrote: Should the compression been checked at any point during this work as standard?
It's one of the simplest, most basic and common and revealing tests available. Inconceivable to me that it wasn't done, although they might have done it and not reported it.
Edited by theo on 05/22/09 - 8:53 AM |
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| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 05/22/09 - 7:43 PM
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A correct way to check compression is with a leak down tester. I have a snap-on tester, you thread a hose into spark plug hole. Pressurize the cylinder with the piston at TDC. compare the readings on the two gauges and compute the loss between the two gauges. Anything more than 10% means there is a problem. I have found this system to be better than a compression check. This works great with 4-strokes as you can determine if it is rings or which valve is bad.
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| Binkie |
Posted on 05/22/09 - 8:04 PM
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I know nothing about fuel injected 2 strokes such as your Optimax, Do fuel injected 2 strokes have reed valves like carburated 2 strokes. If so that may be your trouble. Sand or debris's in the reed valves will cause the idle problems you are experiencing. If so it should be a relitivly inexpensive repair, but not buy the dealer you have taken it to. Install some Boyson reeds and your problems could be over, that is if you have reed valves.
Rich |
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| Seafarer |
Posted on 05/22/09 - 8:17 PM
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Tom W Clark wrote:
Mark,
I am having a hard time understanding that invoice. What is the labor rate?
Looks like $97.50/hr but the R&R reed block (with intake manifold removal/reinstall) as well as water pump are more likely book time rather than actual time.
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| Seafarer |
Posted on 05/22/09 - 8:19 PM
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Binkie wrote:
I know nothing about fuel injected 2 strokes such as your Optimax, Do fuel injected 2 strokes have reed valves like carburated 2 strokes. If so that may be your trouble. Sand or debris's in the reed valves will cause the idle problems you are experiencing. If so it should be a relitivly inexpensive repair, but not buy the dealer you have taken it to. Install some Boyson reeds and your problems could be over, that is if you have reed valves.
The invoice shows 6 replacement reed blocks installed.
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| Mark Finkenstaedt |
Posted on 05/22/09 - 10:29 PM
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Thanks all.
I'm pretty disgusted all-in-all.
I'll be by there tomorrow as I drive past to the beach to chat about this invoice and at the very least the excessive winterizing and all-over-the-shop labor chargers.
Okay- here's a new one:-
What can I expect from this engine? Can I run it into the ground for the rest of the season whilst saving $$ for a replacement or is it plain unsafe.
Had I not spent this money and had the expectation of the idle being on the money I would have just lived with it none-the-wiser and been boating this weekend.
Yes, I'm pulling out of this shop fast as possible to find a business that communicates rather than letting the invoice speak volumes. (dunno if that makes much sense)
Ed's can supply a 150 OpiMax as a straight swap out for $9600 + 650 install- i'd take the project on myself but for the shear weight of it.
Thanks everyone - have a splendid time out on the water this weekend - you- you bast***s! I'm so envious.  I'll PM (just figured that out) with any further q's.
Happy boating - signed - a ...... land lubber. 
Edited by Mark Finkenstaedt on 05/22/09 - 10:31 PM
2001 18' Dauntless - 150HP 2010 E-TEC |
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| Binkie |
Posted on 05/23/09 - 4:07 AM
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You mentioned that sand and debris got in the intake. Well they changed out the reed blocks but never got all the debris out. Make them do it again and this time do it right, or take it to another dealer and have it done right, and then take them to small claims court. Bad reed valeves will cause the problems you are experiencing. There is probably nothing else wrong with your engine.
Rich |
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| MW |
Posted on 05/23/09 - 4:20 AM
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It can be VERY frustrating at a dealer, you always feel like you are put on the back burner for the summer, it takes forever, and then you get "Whacked" by the bill, and then you have the same problems. If it makes you feel any better "WE'VE ALL BEEN THERE". When I first got my boat, I was at a small marina. The boat ran really bad one day (kept stalling out) and I asked them to look at it. I got a bill that looked like something "Congress would pass". I had re-built carb's, new plugs', water pump, "Invoice looked just like yours", same problem. A co-worker with a boat who was a mechanic didn't understand why the shop re-built my Carb's on a 3 year old engine, he came down to look at my boat, he started it up, he shut it off and asked, did you move the fuel lines ? I said "Yes to clean the boat", he said "You put the fuel line on backward's, the check valves are hanging up", I told him that's impossible, the engine won't run with the check valves reversed, he said "But it did run didn't it", he then looked at a red knob on the engine and asked "Did you touch this", I said "Yea, maybe when I was cleaning the engine", he turned the knob and the engine smoothed right out, we took it out and tested, she ran like a top. I would get a second opinion, and move from there. There are many thing's that you can do yourself, such as "Winterize" and "Tune up's", lower unit oil change, etc.. I'm NOT a mechanic but, there are many thing's that I can NOW do, there's a TON of "HELP" here, you'll get this solved. I didn't get out on the water until "July" last year with steering, tilt tube, and overheating problem's on a 4 yr old motor. I was able to fix it all myself with support from W/C. Boating is expensive, we often ask ourselves "Why do we do this" ? Some years we boat trouble free but, we all know that it can get expensive in hurry, and we can be taken out for the season with a "Toasted" engine in a Heartbeat from something that we can't control. Let's get another opinion on your motor first, I have the feeling that somebody over looked/missed something.
Matt |
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| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 05/23/09 - 4:54 AM
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Find a good lawyer. Looking at that bill, I think you got fleeced.
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| ioptfm |
Posted on 05/23/09 - 5:39 AM
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Mark
Please make sure you keep us updated as to what is happening on getting you back in the water.
Tom
1979 Sport 15' |
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| Mark Finkenstaedt |
Posted on 05/24/09 - 6:40 PM
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Thanks all. I'm not giving in and scoped out water entry points in the Rehoboth area for the future. Lewes has it's unfair share of BW's so I'm green with envy.
Lets say it has a bad cylinder. Can I run this into the ground / use the motor as-is or what trouble am I asking for?
Thanks all for the help so far.
2001 18' Dauntless - 150HP 2010 E-TEC |
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| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 05/24/09 - 6:54 PM
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The trouble that can occur is getting stuck out in the water. If the motor is bad, I would not take the family out and chance popping the motor. I would go back to the marina that robbed you w/o a gun and DEMAND they fix the motor or return your money. Be the squeeky wheel.
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| Mark Finkenstaedt |
Posted on 05/27/09 - 1:52 PM
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Okay so the engine is in for the second opin. but I'm the dealers master mechanic can't be "that" wrong.
So, running it isn't a good idea but what about a salvage option? Anyone any idea if I can sell this motor for salvage? Surely these don't just end up in landfills.
I'm really disappointed I won't make the Potomac Swim gathering this year but that's ... in my case.... b-o-a-t-t-s break out another ten thousand.
Thanks all - let you know what happens -
I like the sound of a re-machine for $700 but not the foggiest who could do this for me. Working on it though.
Edited by Mark Finkenstaedt on 05/27/09 - 1:54 PM
2001 18' Dauntless - 150HP 2010 E-TEC |
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| ioptfm |
Posted on 05/27/09 - 2:14 PM
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mark
If you decide to go with a rebuild, be sure to let us know who you are getting it from........There are a lot of crooks out there that try to put a fresh coat of paint on a motor and pass it off as rebuilt.....some even offer a so called warranty, so just run it by the group first
Tom
1979 Sport 15' |
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| Mark Finkenstaedt |
Posted on 06/05/09 - 2:27 PM
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I got the second opinion and the #6 has zero compression. I've decided to re-power from scratch with a 150 Opti. The new ones look sweet and in the life of the boat it's worth it.
I'd like to put one of these new Binnacles on the DTS - I think that runs $500. That way I won't cringe when someone else is at the controls nashing the gears. ( Thoughts on this expense?)
Of course the overall cost of rigging new piece might prevent me in the end. Anyone got one?
I don't have the boat here at the moment but does anyone know what size transom this has 20 or 25"?
I'm bummed that I missed the Potomac swim and probably at this rate July 4th. I hate these land legs.
I'm buying from Ed's Marine in Ashburn - down the road a ways towards Richmond. Lucky me and thanks for the lead to them.
Okay, ideas on the depth of the transom and the Binnacle switch? Should i do this myself or just roll-it-in and get back on the water? Money is an issue of course but so is my summer in ruins.
Also can I use my 135 Opti prop on the new motor?
Edited by Mark Finkenstaedt on 06/05/09 - 2:29 PM
2001 18' Dauntless - 150HP 2010 E-TEC |
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| kitty |
Posted on 06/05/09 - 3:03 PM
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I got a serious talk from my mechanic. DONT BUY A MERCURY! I decided not to. I dont care that it has a 5 year warranty, I sure didnt buy it to fix it over and over. Buy an E-Tec, or a yamaha. A rebuild will be another waste of money. JMO,
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| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 06/06/09 - 6:19 AM
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Mark, JMHO, but I feel you needed to address the rather large amount of money you left at the other dealers shop. I personally would be livid at the thought of dropping that kind of money and now having to buy a new engine. If you have decided on a new engine, that is between you and your wallet. But I would consult a lawyer regarding the old engine.
Kevin
1988 11' Super Sport, 1987 Johnson 15hp.
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
"Vegetarian - old Indian word for bad fisherman." |
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 06/06/09 - 7:00 AM
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The bothersome thing is that it seems he didn't do a compression test and may have done all that work on an engine with a blown cylinder?
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| Mark Finkenstaedt |
Posted on 06/06/09 - 5:44 PM
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I completely agree I'll take it up with them tomorrow. It's easy to get a blank stare and a shrug.
Interestingly the mystery deepens. The computer which wasn't checked by the dealer or at least recorded if it were showed just 16 hurs on the motor. Was the computer replaced?
I agree that the basic test should have been done as standard to find the idle problem.
I'm trying to contact the previous owner to see if he can solve why the computer only has 16 hrs on it.
Geeze - I want to be out on the water - this is ridiculous.
2001 18' Dauntless - 150HP 2010 E-TEC |
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