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Re-powering - What to do - Engine trouble
Mark Finkenstaedt	#1  Posted on 05/20/09 - 12:24 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 195 Comments: 4 Joined: 08/20/08	I just heard that my boat which was having a problem idling is on 5 cylinders and it's not looking good. Options from the dealer - 1. rebuild $4200 - 2. new powerhead from Mercury $6200 3. New unit $11,00 I already spent $2k eariier on new valves and other unnecessary work (now unnecessary) How much does a new motor cost 135 or a 150 cost if not quoted by the dealer. Mercury vs Evinrude etc? (Evinrude promotions on TV etc) I bought the boat in Sept 2008 - sucks to be me! This engine seems at this point to be a bottomless pit/jinxed. Can I run this as-is or am I asking for engine failure - err of course that's a dumb question. Need advice from the experienced as usual. 2001 18' Dauntless - 150HP 2010 E-TEC
moose	#2  Posted on 05/20/09 - 1:05 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 543 Comments: 1 Joined: 03/07/07	Mark, I recommend a second opinion from a different dealer. That Opti is a good engine. I can't believe a rebuild is required at this point. I would think more on the lines of a bad injector, but I'm no mechanic by far, especially on the high tech engines. Mike
wjsherid	#3  Posted on 05/20/09 - 1:22 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 53 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/27/08	Where are you located? http://www.edsmarinesuperstore.com/mercury.htm I had the similar pain of you, I bought my boat Memorial Day weekend, second trip out blew a cylinder with some bad fuel/weak cylinder liner wall. Had to repower and did significant research on pricing of motors. I found that Ed had great deals, but couldn't sell a loose engine. I did however find a dealer that would and for a similar price got one freighted up to Michigan. PM if you want more details, but I would definately check out Eds Marine as they quote $9600 for a 135/150 (they are the same price so definately go 150) Bill
joninnj	#4  Posted on 05/20/09 - 3:21 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 408 Comments: 3 Joined: 06/07/07	Mark, It will really depend on whats wrong with the engine. But if it doesn't idle... how will you run it . By increasing the idle speed you can damage the lower unit (Big expense as well) . Has a basic compression test been done? Did you buy this from the dealer who is servicing it now? If so you could not have gotten much use out of it if you purchased it in September 08. I assume it was used. Also the OptiMAx is a 2 stroke DFI. What valves is the dealer referring to.... I would get a second opinion before doing anything to be honest. I know the season is upon us and kids want go out... I had V6 merc (purchased new) for 20 years only had issues with the power trim... Good luck Edited by joninnj on 05/20/09 - 3:37 PM
ossnap	#5  Posted on 05/20/09 - 3:46 PM
Member Posts: 27 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/09/09	That is some serious work to not get a second opinion. See what someone else tells you before you think on it much more.
ioptfm	#6  Posted on 05/20/09 - 5:27 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 1533 Comments: 3 Joined: 10/28/06	I'm not a big Mercury lover, but they make a good motor and I cannot believe that a motor that new needs as much overhauling and replacement as your dealer is suggesting, unless the motor was neglected in some way. I would get a second opinion without hesitation. If this is the same dealer that you bought it from he should be offering you some sort of break on repair or replacement. Did you buy this boat new? I noticed you stated that you've already spent $2000 on valves. Wasn't there some sort of warranty on it? Edited by ioptfm on 05/20/09 - 5:35 PM Tom 1979 Sport 15'
Mark Finkenstaedt	#7  Posted on 05/20/09 - 6:19 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 195 Comments: 4 Joined: 08/20/08	Hey guys, Thanks for all the very useful opinions on this. I have run this as often since September often the lone guy on a freezing river on the Bay as often I could. The boat was from private sale (original owner) and I opted to use the dealer because my bother-in-law was a whaler nut and swore by them. The initial idle issue has been diagnosed as sand and debris, which for some reason had found a home within the lower engine compartment. I didn't think too much about it thinking it would eventually wash out. The intakes took it into the air intake and hence the fees. I can look up the details and fill that grey area in for anyone interested. Apparently doing a compression test during this service wasn't standard neither was recording the hours or anything else useful. Do I feel a little taken? Absolutely! I will certainly get a second opinion. Does anyone have a good Mercury/Marine mechanic referral for the Northern VA, DC, MD area? I have had a look at Ed's prices but I'm feeling gutted at the moment and the recession isn't helping business. The motor runs fine as far as I could tell but the idle was inconsistent and might cut out after a minute sometimes three - a ghost in the machine. It wasn't a major issue just an annoyance. Approaching the dock; especially a busy one was sometimes nerve racking as I would most likely lose power. "Wjsherid": you had to buy a whole new outboard? - Geeze - I sure would like if possible to go for a 4 stroke but is the a significant rebuild and weight problem? What, if anything do I need to consider about a new motor. Now I'm scared that if I have to do option #3 (new engine) that someone sells me something too heavy or charges too much for the install. I don't suppose I can sell this unit for parts? I'll look for a second opinion starting tomorrow. Thanks everyone. 2001 18' Dauntless - 150HP 2010 E-TEC
joninnj	#8  Posted on 05/20/09 - 7:41 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 408 Comments: 3 Joined: 06/07/07	Mark, If the issue is inconsistent, then it is not the power head. Meaning is if it idles and stalls here and there it is something else. If the power head had issues that does not fade in and out... Might be more simple fuel delivery or injectors ect... I would be happy to talk to you. PM me an I will send you my mobile number. Be happy to try to help you sort through this. jon Edited by joninnj on 05/20/09 - 7:42 PM
Derwd24	#9  Posted on 05/20/09 - 8:02 PM
Member Posts: 1607 Comments: 9 Joined: 05/09/07	Jon has a good point. And keep in mind that if it is something like an injector problem that's causing a lean condition on one of the cylinders, continuing to run it without correcting the cause will lead to engine damage, so it's best to try and get it squared away before using it again. A compression test is the place to start, as that tells you the overall condition of all the cylinders, and if those numbers are OK, you can then look into the cause of the idle issue. But if the test indicates damage to one cylinder already, it's a different ball game. Dave - 1983 Outrage 22
Joe Kriz	#10  Posted on 05/20/09 - 10:27 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	I have a couple of dumb questions. 1. Isn't a Optimax a 2 stroke? 2. If it is a 2 stroke, what is it doing with Valves? Or does an Optimax 2 stroke have Valves?
wjsherid	#11  Posted on 05/21/09 - 7:51 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 53 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/27/08	To answer your question on the re-power, yes and I wasn't happy about it but it is a "BOAT - Break Out Another Thousand" afterall. All that said, I agree with everyone else about a second opinion and certainly get a compression check. If, and I emphasize the "if" that shows problems then you are to the options your current mechanic laid out. There is definately some salvage value to that motor, I can't say its a lot, but I think I got $500 for my Yamaha 90 2 - Stroke. As for your concerns about engine weight, model selection etc.....You ask the question here, you will get LOTS of answers/opinions. Now this may be a stretch, but did you get bad fuel that may have caused this? There is a chance if your insurance company is respectable that if something caused this to go bad, that you may be covered. I had the fortunate chance that mine was.....so it can't hurt to ask, the only thing they can say is no. Bill
Tom W Clark	#12  Posted on 05/21/09 - 7:55 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	I do not understand. What motor is it that has failed? If the boat was bought just last year, why isn't the motor repair covered under the manufacturer's warranty?
HarleyFXDL	#13  Posted on 05/21/09 - 1:11 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 917 Comments: 30 Joined: 07/24/07	Optimax are two stroke engines, therefore there are no valves. The verados are the four stroke engines. If your mechanic is stating you need a valve job, you need to get that motor out of his hands. I would not trust him with a garden hose.
Joe Kriz	#14  Posted on 05/21/09 - 1:42 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	I guess we need to really know what motor he is referring too. I also assumed it was the engine on the boat in his personal page that he was talking about.
Mark Finkenstaedt	#15  Posted on 05/22/09 - 6:31 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 195 Comments: 4 Joined: 08/20/08	Hey - Okay maybe didn't mention that this was a 2001 135 Optimax. I'm off today to pick it up and send it in for a second opinion - thank you for making this point. I looked up the invoice from the previous and will post it on the personal page or here if possible (see link). As you can see I had the water pump replaced as I was having an overheat alarm the rest seems to be sundry cahrges and lots of add-ons for a winterize I didn't ask and requested not to do. I tally that part of the "winterizing with supplies to be $340 approx! I asked for idle problems and a recurring continuous tone warning . How bad was I gutted? Should the compression been checked at any point during this work as standard? Invoice image in Jpeg format. http://www.mfpix.com/serviceQuestions...stions.jpg Edited by Mark Finkenstaedt on 05/22/09 - 6:33 AM 2001 18' Dauntless - 150HP 2010 E-TEC
wjsherid	#16  Posted on 05/22/09 - 7:18 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 53 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/27/08	I am no engine mechanic, but any shop that charges $29.95 for a Spark Plug seems to me like they are definately in it to make money..That part at a local Auto Parts store is $2.99
Tom W Clark	#17  Posted on 05/22/09 - 7:32 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	Mark, I am having a hard time understanding that invoice. What is the labor rate?
ioptfm	#18  Posted on 05/22/09 - 7:36 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 1533 Comments: 3 Joined: 10/28/06	Is that a six cylinder motor? Tom 1979 Sport 15'
donp	#19  Posted on 05/22/09 - 7:41 AM
Member Posts: 222 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/12/08	Mark, I am a MD resident my self and have use a mechanic by the name of AL. He lives in the Essex area and his #is 410-335-2583. Best of luck.
Tom W Clark	#20  Posted on 05/22/09 - 7:47 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	Yes, the OptiMax 135 is the smallest of the V-6 outboards. A 2001 OptiMax 135 is one of the most notorious "problem" OptiMaxs made and one which some would not touch with a ten foot pole. I would confirm (with another mechanic) that it needs a rebuild instead of some much lesser repair and then simply replace it with a new motor if that is the case.