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Hydraulic Steering
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| Davidm |
Posted on 01/21/14 - 4:57 PM
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looking for information/reference material on installing hydraulic steering on my 1990 Outrage 19 with Honda 130.
Thanks in advance for any input.
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| aeriksen |
Posted on 01/21/14 - 6:00 PM
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I repowered this last year with a 130 Etec and installed the Baystar hydraulic system, the reason baystar was I could cut the hoses to length myself with the Seastar system you order the hoses of the correct length. The baystar is supposed to be good up to 150 hp. The disadvantage to the Baystar is it is not as quick as the Seastar. It takes more turns lock to lock for a full turn than the Seastar. I just added a suicide knob and that solved that problem. Look online for either system, good start in your research.
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| Finnegan |
Posted on 01/21/14 - 10:51 PM
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First of all, you can get all of the information and rigging information you need from the Teleflex hydraulic steering site.
I have retro-fitted 3 Whalers with hydraulic steering, including a Montauk with Baystar and an Outrage 18 with Sea Star I. All of these surface mount helms are quite tall, and put the wheel high above the console surface. Because of that, I HIGHLY recommend the back mount kit, which reduces the helm height.
Baystar is fine, and works well for me on the Montauk, but the plastic TUBING that they furnish in the kit is horrible stuff to work with, and a rigging nightmare. It was so bad for me, that I abandoned it and ordered a pair of the higher quality HOSES used on the Sea Star systems. The savings of Baystar was subsequently reduced by the $120 additional cost.
For the Outrage 18/19, I recommend the Sea Star I system that I used. Hose length is 18' if I remember correctly.
You can see photos of my installations on my personal website. An excellent source for competitively priced hydraulic steering kits is surplusunlimited.com, in Daytona Beach FL.
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| Davidm |
Posted on 01/22/14 - 9:54 AM
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Thanks aerickson and Finnegan. I will check both out. Finnegan thanks for pointing me to the pictures.
I will post and let you know how it goes.
dm
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| jamesgt727 |
Posted on 01/22/14 - 10:03 AM
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I'm a UFLEX buyer, no other reason that it looks cool, and they make them in Silver. I have purchased three Silversteer systems and they fit and worked just fine. NO LEAKS!!
JT
http://uflexusa.ultraflexgroup.com/ar...asp?sart=4
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 01/22/14 - 11:26 AM
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Uflex and Teleflex both make excellent hydraulic steering systems and their products lines and pricing are very, very similar.
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 01/22/14 - 11:37 AM
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I am very familiar with the Teleflex line so allow me to make a few comments:
Both BayStar and SeaStar components can be used with this boat and motor combination. You can even use a SeaStar helm with a BayStar cylinder, though not the other way around.
Any hydraulic steering system for a single outboard is going to include three basic components:
- Helm
- Cylinder
- 2 Hoses
There are several option for each so choose carefully. The rate of steering (how many turns of the steering wheel from lock-to-lock) is determined by the volume of the helm vs. the volume of the cylinder.
The terms "SeaStar I" and "SeaStar II" are obsolete and refer to the old days when Teleflex offered only two helm pumps of 1.7 cubic inch and 2.4 cubic inch volume respectively. The former was intended for single or dual engine, single cylinder applications while the latter was intended for dual engine, dual cylinder applications.
Today you can buy a SeaStar helm in 1.4, 1.7, 2.0 or 2.4 cubic inch capacities. You also have the options of buying surface mount, or back mount helms, as well as tilting helms. In addition to all this there are the SeaStar Pro helms intended for some high performance applications.
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| Finnegan |
Posted on 01/22/14 - 12:51 PM
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I have found that buying the three components, plus the oil, in one of thei package kits is less expensive. Sourcing the 4 required items individually can cost at least $200 more.
The question is, when you buy a package, can you specifiy the helm volume you want?
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 01/22/14 - 1:36 PM
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It depends on the vendor. Many vendors will supply a "kit" that is just components assembled from parts they have on their shelves, and yes, if you ask, they often will simply substitute the components you want.
For a 1990 Outrage 19 with a BF130, I recommend either a surface mount 2.0 SeaStar helm with a front mount SeaStar cylinder with SeaStar hoses *or* a 1.7 SeaStar Helm with a BayStar cylinder and with SeaStar hoses.
The latter combination will speed up the steering response to just a little over 4 turns lock-to-lock which is about the same as the 2.0 SeaStar helm with SeaStar cylinder.
Honestly, after upgrading to the better hoses, I don't see much advantage to using a BayStar cylinder at all.
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| huckelberry145 |
Posted on 01/22/14 - 3:19 PM
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Since there are a couple of threads going about steering and the suggestion of having helms that are three turns lock to lock. Is that because of the steering wheel diameter? Are the helms that require more turns to steer lock to lock for larger diameter steering wheels?
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| gchuba |
Posted on 01/22/14 - 3:26 PM
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Huck,
I believe that 3 turns are 3 turns. The larger the wheel the more control in increments.
gchuba
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| huckelberry145 |
Posted on 01/22/14 - 3:48 PM
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What I'm asking is are the steering helms that require 4.5 turns lock to lock for large diameter 24" wheels?
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| aeriksen |
Posted on 01/22/14 - 4:05 PM
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The way I understand the difference between the number of turns from lock to lock on both systems is basically the pump size, the bigger pump pushes more volume thus less number of turns lock to lock. I has nothing to do with the wheel diameter. Although a bigger wheel will require less effort to turn the motor form lock to lock than the smaller wheel.
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| huckelberry145 |
Posted on 01/22/14 - 4:39 PM
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More turns lock to lock just means slower response time at the engine. I guess there is an application for that somewhere. I just know I don't want to have to turn my wheel 1/2 turn just to make the boat make a 10 degree turn.
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 01/22/14 - 6:00 PM
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Wheel size has nothing *directly* to do with it.
For any given system, there will be a trade of between steering effort (the force required to actually turn the wheel) and the number of turns the wheel needs to make for a given steering input.
Teleflex mechanical systems are offered in 3, 4.2 and 5 turns lock-to-lock.
A SeaStar hydraulic system with a single cylinder will be about 5 turns with the most common 1.7 cu. in. helm, about 4 turns with the 2.0 helm and closer to 3 turns with the 2.4 helm. The 1.4 SeaStar helm (which I actually think Teleflex has now stopped making) would be about 7 turns and would require very little effort to turn the wheel, butter-smooth some say, but it's slow as hell.
The diameter of the wheel just offers more leverage to input the course correction but takes up more space. Usually, larger wheels, larger vessels. There isn't a Whaler made that needs anything more than 16" wheel and the little ones do fine with 13.5" wheels.
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| huckelberry145 |
Posted on 01/22/14 - 7:44 PM
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I guess what I was wanting to know is what would be the application for a 5 turn steering helm but don't answer please, I don't want this conversation to take over the original thread. Sorry Davidm.
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 01/22/14 - 8:36 PM
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Large boats and especially those with twin, high-horsepower outboards tend to benefit from more robust steering systems.
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| Davidm |
Posted on 01/23/14 - 12:04 PM
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Gentlemen this is all great information. This is my first experience with the hydraulic conversion and I now have the what I need. Finnegan I will follow your suggestion on the SS Helm 2.0 and front mount cylinder. I was afraid the front mount would push the wheel out to far. Thanks for all the expertise.
DM
1990 Outrage 19
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 01/23/14 - 12:45 PM
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A SeaStar helm will stick out more than the helm you have now. Use the HA5418 back mount kit to reduce the protrusion by the thiuckness of the dash (about 1" on a Whaler console).
http://www.seastarsolutions.com/wp-co...66521E.pdf
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| lowelife |
Posted on 01/28/14 - 12:30 PM
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I'm getting ready to re-power my 1986 18 Outrage. At the same time I think I am going to install a SeaStar hydraulic system. According to a SeaStar tech based on the length of my original Teleflex twin cable system I will need 16' hoses.
Has anyone installed this on an 18 Outrage and can confirm 16' is the correct length. Any other tips, advice, etc. would be appreciated.
Thanks
1986 Outrage 18', 2014 Suzuki DF140A |
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