Whaler Central - Boston Whaler Boat Information and Photos

Posted by Silentpardner on 11/14/14 - 11:47 AM

I own one of those, a 1989 Whaler 27 FC, and use it a lot in Gulf Of Mexico. They are great for offshore overnighting. The one you are looking at there does not have a marine A/C unit, or a generator listed in the ad.

That boat sure looks to be in good condition, but the motors are not discussed much in the ad. When I bought mine last year, the first thing I did was to replace the 1989 engines with new 2013 new ones. This cost 43,000 bucks, after selling the 1989 Yamaha 200 motors that were on it at the time. I got 3000 bucks a piece for the old motors with 1500 hours on them, but they were in immaculate condition. You could not expect more than half of that for the 2005 Optimax engines on the one you are looking at, in my opinion.
2005 engines are now 10 years old, and these do not specify how many hours are on them.
I also spent 11000 bucks on all new Garmin electronics. Unless you are going to use this boat for extreme fishing, as I use mine, you probably won't need a new set, but you will need an auto-pilot on this boat. I don't see one listed in the ad.

You will also want an automatic anchor windlass on this boat, as access to the anchor locker and bow pulpit anchor tie-off cleat is only accessible from the cabin hatch unless you are very nimble, and can walk along a 6" walkway access while hanging on to the Bimini support struts and bow railing along the side of the exterior of the cabin in the sea conditions you are in at the time of anchoring. My "Good" brand fully automatic windlass cost me 2000 bucks after installation.

The Whaler 27 FC with WD has a 10'4" beam. It weighs over well over 10000 lbs. It is actually 34' long from bow bit tip to back of engines on the Whaler Drive. This is a BIG boat. This is not a boat you trailer to a ramp and launch. You keep these in marinas, preferably dry-stacked for preservation.
It costs me 5500 bucks a year to keep mine at Surfside Marina in Freeport TX. It costs an additional 1380 bucks a year for a storage locker at the Marina with electricity to power my chest freezer. It costs an additional 300 bucks a year to keep a trailer for this boat there at the marina for use in case of hurricane emergency.

You have to service those engines on that boat. Every 100 hrs of use, it costs 877 bucks to have this done at my marina on both my 2013 Yamaha 300 four strokes. I can do it myself for a little less than 500 bucks.

There will always be miscellaneous repairs needed on a boat of this size and age. I have already had to replace the cockpit upholstered and padded coamings with new. The original mounting strips for the coaming pads were all made of wood, I replaced this with modern mounting, and all this cost me 2200 bucks. That was one repair.

I don't know what kind of truck you own, but you will definitely need a 1-ton or better truck to tow this boat. I use an F-350 4 X 4 for the one I own. I have an account with the state of Texas DOT to get oversize load permits quickly in case of emergency, such as hurricanes, in order to get this boat off the coast in a hurry. That F-350 cost me over 50000 bucks. You need to be prepared for costs incurred permitting, including insurance, if you intend to tow these boats. I picked mine up in Wisconsin, and by the time I got back to TX with it, it had cost me 2500 bucks to get it there.

The Whaler 27 FC cabin is definitely not at all like a cuddy on a 22 'revenge. You can stand up and walk around inside the 27's cabin, and you have a galley and a full head with a shower, and the bunk uses queen size sheets. This is a BIG cabin. There is a HUGE cockpit available for fishing, and there is a HUGE area for piloting and passenger seating. You have a huge full transom stern with 2 baitwells. The stern bilge is incredibly deep, over 6', and it is very difficult to perform necessary maintenance inside it.

If you are prepared to spend a LOT of money to own a classic, this is a boat you will love. If you are not fully prepared for the cost of ownership, this could all be a real shock. I have seen many of these boats deteriorate to junk because owners buy them and then can't afford them. It pains me to see this, but I can't afford them all :) It is my opinion that these old classics will completely disappear soon, with the exception of the few of us that still maintain them, because of this high cost of ownership. A new boat in this size class is much cheaper.

I should warn you, there will be many people that will tell you my costs are inflated somehow, and you can own and maintain one of these boats for less than it costs me. You can't. There will probably even be responders to this thread that will disagree with my actual cost numbers, but they won't actually be an owner of one like I am. I am telling you the straight truth here.

The Whaler 27 FC is by far the best boat I have ever owned for the kind of fishing I do. I have put hundreds of fish on the deck of mine. I get 200-300 hours of enjoyment on the water up to 150 miles offshore with mine. Even the cost of ownership of this fine boat are worth it to me, as the only boat that could replace it would be a sportfisher express, or a new Whaler with even more costs of ownership.

If you just want to cruise around with your girlfriend a few days of the year, you should really look at other options. There are many less costly boats available.

I hope this has helped in your decision making process, I really don't want to scare you off this deal if you can really afford it...just beware of the true costs. If you have any other questions about this boat, I am willing to help, just email me. Here is a link to photos of my boats.[url]
https://www.flickr.com/photos/99787852@N06/sets/[/url]

Edited by Silentpardner on 11/14/14 - 11:59 AM

Posted by demco99 on 11/18/14 - 5:30 PM

#12

Hi guys - thanks for all the replies..

Silentpardner your very thorough response is much appreciated! Firs[b]of all, WOW, your1 boat is absolutely gorgeous!!! I checked out your flickr site and am in awe. I have a few questions for you. You mention you dry stack the boat for a portion of the year for "preservation" - I plan on keeping mine in a marina and using year round.. Is this an issue for this hull? If I take it out for a spin once a week in the winter months but it stays in the water year-round (apart from annual lift out for bottom painting etc.) should I be worried. This also negated the size of truck issue as I don't plan on trailering.

Next que`stion is regarding the engines. I have read overall positive1 reviews on this year/brand of engine in the 225hp size. The owner installed them in 2005 and they now have around 900hrs. As long as they check out mechanically (compression test etc) from a certified marine mechanic, then why would I worry? It would be nice to put on new 4-stroke power as you have done but these engines are good size for this hull and should have1 alot of life left in them.. no?

I noticed your custom kicker bracket, looks great, who made that for you? Do you now` have a kicker installed on there? Could you send more pics/specs/info on this as I plan to install a kicker if I buy this boat. I will be using this boat for salmon fishing which is done at a slow troll, 2.5-4mph. What size of kicker would be best for this hull in your opinion for this application? 9.9hp high thrust? 15hp high thrust? With a helm steering wheel and throttle mounted somewhere convenient on the transom - this would be a relatively inexpensive upgrade that would make this boat an awesome salmon fishing boat. Not sure if I would plumb it to main fuel tanks or keep small seperate orange plastic fuel tank on transom. The beauty is with most of the day spent trolling you aren't putting hours on the main engines which delays the eventual repower...

New cockpit coaming / new electronics / anchor windlass would all be very nice additions, but these could wait of course. I wouldn't need to completely upgrade the boat immediately following purchase. I feel like this boat as it is currently provides alot of value and life at its current price, am I missing something here? Silentpardner would it be possible for me to give you a call this week to discuss - I will most likely be driving 3 hours sout3h to view the boat this Sunday..

Thanks again guys..

Posted by Silentpardner on 11/19/14 - 12:13 AM

#13

Thanks for the compliments on the boat.

I don't have any experience keeping a Whaler hull in the water year round, as I keep the Outrage 18 on a trailer when it is not in use. I keep the Whaler 27 FC in dry storage when it is not in use, at all times of the year. This allows me to inspect the boat every time I have the boat launched and retrieved, from the outside of the boat. I can correct any problems with water intrusion into the hull before they become apparent from the inside-the-boat view in this manner.
Gelcoat and fiberglass do not prevent water intrusion into the foam inside it, even though it is commonly perceived that way. There are other threads here on site and at least one article, I believe, that discuss the migration of water through gelcoat/fiberglass shells on Boston Whaler boats. Bottom paint prevents this, or at least slows it down, depending on its quality.
I do have bottom paint on the Whaler 27, but I intend to remove it in the future, if the removal of the bottom paint on my Outrage 18 works as advocated by local boatbuilders I employ, as well as advocates for this procedure among the classic Boston Whaler enthusiasts on this site and around the web. The jury is still out in my mind on this issue, but due to my trailering of this boat, I am willing to try this.
I would say it is mandatory to pull and clean, as well as re-coat any hull used in saltwater docking at a minimum frequency of once a year. I would recommend pulling a hull kept in this way at least 2 times a year, as I have actual experience with larger sportfishers that stay in the water all the time, and I have seen some pretty expensive repairs on fiberglass hulls required that could have been much less expensive if the problem had been caught earlier. Some problems I have noted in the past were the direct result of bonding issues between the hull and the bottom paint.
There is always the risk of stray electrical currents in marina waters that you cannot control. No matter how well designed and maintained that your own boat's electrical system is, you can't control the same on someone else's boat. Stray electrical currents can seriously reduce the life of your boats anode system, and can also cause premature corrosion of your engines, leading to more costly repairs/replacement. This is another, and arguably the "best", reason why I choose to dry-stack my Whaler 27 FC. I didn't have this option with the sportfishers.
This is what I meant by the use of the word "preservation" in my response.

There is a lot square footage of the hull of the boat actually submerged in the water at the dock. Actually, although I have not actually calculated this, it appears that at least half of the hull would be underwater at all times at a dock. You wont ever see this huge area of hull until you pull the boat.
I use the boat most in the months between march and October, but I try to make a trip or two per month in the remaining months of the year when the weather permits. Currently, over the last 2 weeks or so, the seas in the Gulf have been between 3' and 15', and at short intervals in high winds and rain, so trips are at a minimum...even the Whaler 27 FC is uncomfortable to operate and fish from in these conditions. :)

I think the best thing you can do for any boat and engine is to use them as regularly as possible, they all seem to last longer. Any maintenance issues that arise from use, or disuse, are quickly noticed as they develop and can be corrected before they become more serious and expensive to address. If your engines have 900 hrs on them, it could indicate a regular use of 100 hr/yr, or it could indicate 300 hrs/yr for only three years. You would need to know positively the actual use, as well as maintenance, of the engines to really be able to confidently project their lifespan, but from experience, 2500 hrs on well maintained and regularly used 2-strokes is not uncommon. Some folks have gotten a lot more out of these engines.
It is a bit of crapshoot to predict reality when you are buying a used set of engines. I personally would not figure value of the engines you are looking at any higher than $5000 into the overall price of the boat, and I would shoot for less, as the actual resale value could be much less.

The custom kicker mount you see on that Whaler 27 FC was built by the previous owner. It is truly custom. I have plans for it's removal from the boat completely, as I don't expect to ever have a kicker on the boat for my use in the future. When I remove it, I will look you up if you wind up purchasing the boat you are looking at. You are welcome to it :) It supported a 4-stroke Yamaha 50 with a large propeller, (not a standard), on my Whaler 27 when I purchased it, and with that combination, could actually push that boat faster than was ever needed for salmon and lake trout trolling. I never actually measured the prop that was being used, but it worked well for low speed thrust. I would recommend this HP engine because I know it worked well, but I don't have any other experience with HP's of kicker engines applied to this size and weight of boat for reference.
The kicker motor was completely remote controlled on my boat when I purchased it. I don't see how it could have been operated by a tiller-handle control motor. The Whaler Drive it is mounted to is behind the backside of the full transom. I could only imagine the difficulty of trying to operate a kicker with a tiller handle on this boat, but I would consider this impossible.
The kicker motor was fueled from a separate auxiliary 25 gallon aluminum fuel tank installed in the same cavity of the boat as the original 170 gallon tank, on top of the original tank. There was, and is, enough room to do this in these boats. This auxiliary tank is still in place in the boat, and I now have it plumbed into my fuel supply lines for reserve capacity.
There are alternatives to using a plastic on-deck accessory tank to supply a kicker that we could, and should in my opinion, discuss before settling on this option. Plumbing the kicker to the existing fuel tank would certainly be my own preference over having a small portable tank in the cockpit.

It occurs to me that you may have not yet fully grasped the actual size of the boat you are going to look at Sunday :) I think you may be astounded. I think you really need to see one of these boats, out of the water and up close, before you get to thinking about kicker motor size and fuel supply. Once you actually see this vessel and walk around it, I think you will understand. IT is a BIG boat :)

Make sure you look at the wiring and plumbing on the boat you are looking at very closely. Take pictures of the electrical system and steering hydraulic lines and helm through the access door in the head. Take pictures of the wiring and fuel and hydraulic lines inside the transom at the batteries, ( the center fishwell in the transom should pull out from the top of the transom). Take pictures of the battery charger and wiring, it should be located behind the access opening on the port side of the interior in the helm area of the boat. Take pictures under every access hatch you can remove, and get some pics of the holding tanks and the hot water heater and plumbing. Run water at the taps to check for leaks and make sure the drains work, as well as making sure the freshwater supply pump works. Make sure that the freshwater is coming from the holding tank, and not from the raw water washdown pump and system, these are 2 separate systems. Make sure the head actually works and flushes properly. Take pictures of everything on the boat that could be hard for you to see otherwise, and even take pictures of the stuff you think you see well.
Study all these pictures, and show them to others that you trust as knowledgeable about conditional issues of boats in your area offline, not just here on the internet. Compare these photos to the ones that I have posted at my Flickr site. Keep in mind the cost of ownership I have already discussed above, then make your decision. Remember, I have not had to do any work at all on the electrical or plumbing systems of the boat I purchased including the appliances, that was already pristine at the time of my purchase, and it all works to this day as it did originally.

After you have actually looked this boat over, I would be glad to talk with you about it on the phone if you are still interested in it. :)

Posted by Silentpardner on 12/20/14 - 12:49 PM

#22

That is a really good looking boat! I didn't see any pictures of the wiring other than of the area at the battery charger, but that certainly looks well done to me. I personally prefer the battery switches and the ACR's to be located closer to the batteries. There were no pictures of the battery area, or any from the stern openings at all, and you will need to examine all this carefully. Remember, if you are going to have problems with this boat, it will probably be with the things that are not easily seen. Someone has obviously taken great pains to make this boat look good for the sale, but the wiring behind that console and the plumbing and waste, fresh and hotwater tanks are not pictured yet. You absolutely must operate all the systems, and taste the water from the freshwater system while the boat is sitting in saltwater. There is a raw water system and a fresh water system, and it is possible to cross contaminate between them if they are not plumbed correctly. Just because something appears to be working does not mean that it actually is working.

The fuel lines and tanks are also not pictured yet. You need to examine that stern bilge and be wary of any fuel/oil smells you may encounter there. Don't be afraid to look at all the under-deck access points on that boat before you buy it. You could have many costs and regrets if you don't.

I agree with jvz on the relocation of those oil tanks, that certainly would not work for me, I have to back down on fish a lot in my type of fishing, and I do get that area of the Whaler Drive flooded with sea water at times.

I noticed from the pictures of the haul out that the bottom paint is nice, but it does not appear to cover all of the hull that will be sitting in the water at the dock. If you intend to keep that hull in the water year round, you will have to insure that all the hull that is in the water at the dock is covered.

I apologize for not responding to your email yet, I have been extremely busy and out of the country for a couple of weeks, it is very difficult for me in some of the areas I travel to use the internet.

I also note that the kicker bracket that is currently on that boat is rusting and staining the Whaler Drive. I would certainly replace or refurbish that immediately, if I were going to use a kicker at all on this boat.

Edited by Silentpardner on 12/20/14 - 12:51 PM

Posted by Silentpardner on 12/20/14 - 8:46 PM

#23

I just read your post over at the other site. The information you are getting over there is not accurate.

The original location of oil tanks for the engines was definitely intended to be in the stern bilge behind the access doors under the baitwells. This is the same general area that the original batteries were also installed. This is the best location for 2-cycle oil supply tanks on this model of boat, as it is close to the engines and within an enclosed bilge area on this model.
Anyone that thinks the oil tanks should, or were ever intended to be located under the helm seating and oil lines run all the way back to the engines from that location must not have any real life experience with these boats, as this would require over 15' of wet oil hose at all times. If I owned one of these boats rigged the way that poster says his is, "from the factory", I would definitely have moved these oil tanks to the proper location very quickly.
I have my doubts that some folks claiming to own, (or have owned), these boats currently have, or do, actually own one. These poser - owners cannot ever produce actual pictures of their boat. I see this a lot more than I would like all over the net, and even here on this site sometimes I am skeptical. Beware. I am especially suspect of true ownership when I see a site owner immediately jump in with "pictures are not necessary" when you request them specifically. It appears that others might be aware of the scam being perpetrated on their own forum by posting members.

When these boats were sold originally, they were fitted with engines by the dealer, not Boston Whaler. Each dealer was left with the responsibility and sole discretion of installing the components related to the engines as well. This included the oil tanks. Not all dealers followed Boston Whaler recommendations. If the oil tanks for the 2-cycle engines were actually located under the helm seating in any of these boats originally, it was due to customer request and/or dealer preference, and certainly not Boston Whaler recommendation.
I looked at a LOT of these Whaler 27 FC's before I purchased the one I own now. I have NEVER seen one equipped with 2-cycle engines that had the engine oil supply tanks installed under either of the 2 helm seat compartments. This location is not practical.

Edited by Silentpardner on 12/20/14 - 9:42 PM

Posted by Silentpardner on 01/10/15 - 3:32 PM

#29

In the interest of the Whaler community, I will post my opinions of this particular boat here after reading the engine and general boat surveys that were provided to me by Nick. I think it is important that this thread remain open and not simply devolve into email correspondence, especially since Nick wants knowledgeable folks to help him. I do not consider myself the end-all authority on these boats, I just happen to have a lot of recent experience looking at them over the last few years. I sent the following reply to nick today.

Hi Nick!

Well, the engine survey says…..!

Interesting that the engines would require repairs that would cost more than they are worth! There has obviously been a lot of improper maintenance on them, if the spark plug threads and thrust washers are damaged and installed incorrectly. There would be more problems, I suspect, very quickly discovered after these repairs were completed. The rigging for these motors is not installed correctly if there is not room for the oil tanks in the stern area of this boat. When I purchased my boat, it had a fourstroke 50 HP kicker and 2 Yamaha 200 HP main engines. There were 2 oil tanks, all of the battery switches and 2 ACR’s, a separate electronics accessory switch shutoff, and a total of 4 large batteries, as well as all the rigging for the engines, located in this area. Things might have been tight under there, but there was room for it all, and everything was accessable for emergency maintenance if needed.
I have not seen a single photo of interior of the stern bilge area where all this equipment is located on the boat you are looking at. Why is this? That is definitely one of the most important areas of concern in this boat, and I did my best to help you understand this in my correspondence with you. There are other areas of this boat that I tried to get you to examine, none of them were included in your photo updates. If you can’t go to the trouble of opening the access door behind the helm in the head and photographing what’s in that cabinet, or opening the cockpit and helm hatches and trapdoors, as well as the stern access hatches and taking pictures there before you go into negotiations and then buy this tub, you will get what you get, and no one can really help you with value and projections of reliability with this vessel. There is an autopilot, but it is not functioning? Understand that a new autopilot system is not cheap, All of this would have to be completely redone. The fact that this system is not working now would indicate that there is a high probability that some, or all, of the main components would also have to be replaced with the correct installation. The autopilot system that exists is worthless, and would represent an immediate expenditure of at least $1000 to replace, even if you did this yourself, which I would not recommend to anyone that needed a survey of a boat to recognize this problem.

The survey of the engines and engine rigging, as well as the autopilot, on this boat indicate that they are completely worthless. Get a signed commitment to buy these engines from the dealer that surveyed them if you do not understand this, or if the dealer tells you otherwise.

And the general boat survey says….!

On the basis of this survey, I would definitely not pay more than $5000 for this vessel, even though the surveyor has placed a value on this vessel of 35.000.! It appears that the surveyor in this case is either seller-biased, or simply has no knowledge about repair costs to classic Whalers. It also shows what I have been trying to communicate about these boats, that in fact, if you wish to buy one, the seller can make one look very good, and still have a lot of expensive problems that you cannot determine without very careful examination of the boat.
The one immediate thing that jumps out at me is the surveyor claiming the boat has no raw water system…it certainly did originally! The raw water system supplies the bait wells integral to the transom stern, as well as supplying a hose fitting to attach a cockpit washdown hose! If there is no raw water system in the boat, it has been removed completely, it certainly had one when it was built. Without raw water, the bait wells will not work. If you need live bait on your boat, prepare to shell out cash.
I recommended to you in past correspondence on Whaler Central to actually taste the water produced in the freshwater system, with the boat sitting in saltwater, and determine that it was actually freshwater. I do not have any response from you on this detail, so I don’t know whether the raw water system is actually being used to supply the freshwater system or the freshwater system is being used to supply the baitwells. One or the other must be a fact if there are no “raw water” pumps in this boat, and the baitwells fill up. The corroded condition of the hot water tank that is discussed in the survey could very well be an indication that the systems have been cross-contaminated or that raw water is being used instead of fresh. You should be VERY LEERY of the plumbing survey. These repairs could easily cost you another $2000-$5000 even if you did the work yourself, which, again, I would not recommend in your case.

Let’s take a look at the “Priority Items” listed by your surveyor. These items alone reduce the actual value of this boat tremendously.

*PRIORITY ITEM: Satisfactory resolution of this Finding is essential for the continued safe operation and/or use of the vessel.
1. There is a slight bend upwards in the port engine trim plane and the leading edge of its fin is slightly rough. This indicates previous contact with a floating object. Recommendation: Monitor bend for worsening. Sand fin smooth and coat to protect.
2. There are a very few (approx. 30) blisters on the hull underbody amidships between the outer gelcoat and the underlying FRP laminate, the largest of which is approximately ½” in diameter. Recommendation: Monitor for worsening and repair for cosmetic reasons if desired. Note: Without opening a representative number of blisters on each side of the hull laminate, it is not possible to ascertain the effect these blisters have on the structural integrity of the hull. No blisters were opened during this inspection.
3. A plastic or FRP scoop is broken off over a small thru hull to port aft on the underbody. Recommendation: Attach a replacement scoop if desired.
4. There is a separations between the outer FRP laminate and the underlying wood core on the inner face of the transom to port between the outboard and next inboard thru-transom swim step/outboard motor bracket fasteners in an area approximately 8” x 8”. Recommendation: Check condition of underlying core. If coring is dry, inject with epoxy resin to rebond. If coring is wet but not soft, thoroughly dry and inject with epoxy resin to rebond. If coring is soft and/or decayed, remove soft, decayed coring, treat surrounding coring with fungicidal compound and rebuild as per original. Following all of the above repairs, sand to contour and color coat to match.
5. The fuel tank fill hose is age deteriorated. Recommendation: Replace with properly sized and rated Type A2 fuel hose in accordance with American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) standards.
6. The autopilot and trim tabs are inoperative. Recommendation: Repair or replace as necessary for proper operation. 7. There is a hydraulic leak at one line connection to starboard on the helm pump. Recommendation: Repair as required to eliminate hydraulic fluid leaks. Bleed system and monitor for reoccurrence.
8. The main cabin bilge pump leaks so badly it will not pump water overboard. Recommendation: Replace pump and test for proper operation.
9. The visible portions of the potable hot water tank are slightly corroded. Recommendation: Monitor tank and replace if leaking is detected.

Have you actually gotten estimates on the cost of these repairs? I would highly recommend that you do! Keep in mind that the surveyor is stating that “Satisfactory resolution of this Finding is essential for the continued safe operation and/or use of the vessel.” For each of the 9 items listed!

I have seen Whaler 27 FC’s, with many more original features intact and working, like generators and stoves in the galley, sell for between $8000 and $12500 over the past 5 years. None of these boats, that I looked at, had broken and or rotten transoms or blistering hulls. I would not offer to pay what is being asked for this boat. I would not offer any sum even APPROACHING what is being asked for this boat. There are way too many unknowns with this one, and the surveyor has completely missed at least one entire system in this survey. You have to wonder what else might have been “missed”. Like, for instance, the actual condition of all the wiring behind that door under the helm that is accessed from the head!

I might be interested in this particular boat, if I didn’t already have one that has ALL THE ORIGINAL SYSTEMS working on it currently, in the price range of $5000 to a very max of $10000, with all the information now available to me.I would not even bother to examine it further if the sale price was not reduced to $10000. If I was going to spend almost $40000 on a boat, I would keep looking. This is just my opinion.

Jerry Mooney, aka Silentpardner