Thread subject: Whaler Central - Boston Whaler Boat Information and Photos :: Baystar Hydraulic Steering on 15' GLS

Posted by blacksmithdog on 01/21/13 - 12:50 PM
#1

The head on my steering has quite a bit of wobble in it, but then again, it's 20 years old. A Whaler owner on another forum is getting ready to replace his Teleflex steering with the smallest Baystar unit.

Do any of you on this forum have Baystar hydraulic steering on your 15 footers? If so, do you think it clutters up the splashwell? Could you post some pictures of how it looks?

Thanks

Posted by Tom W Clark on 01/21/13 - 1:49 PM
#2

I do not own a 15 footer with BayStar steering but I will offer you an opinion anyway.

The BayStar is a very s l o w system requiring 5 turns lock-to-lock. The plastic tubing and compression fittings supplied with it is lousy in my opinion, buy Larry did note that the regular SeaStar hoses can be used in lieu of the plastic tubing, which solves that problem.

However, the $200-$300 saving over the full SeaStar system mostly goes away if you have to buy hoses so why not just buy the SeaStar system? Another benefit of using the SeaStar is that you can choose the 2.0 or 2.4 cu. in. helm which will reduce the turns lock-to-lock down to 4 & 3 respectively (comparable to the Safe-T mechanical 3.0 and 4.2 systems, but smoother.)

Posted by tedious on 01/21/13 - 2:13 PM
#3

I have Seastar steering on another, larger boat, and I would not recommend hydraulic steering at all on a 15. Maybe I am biased, but having had to replace the steering pump and have the cylinder rebuilt after 7 years makes the Teleflex cable units look pretty good. I will say that the new pump appears to be sealed more effectively, and maybe it will be better. But in discussion with the mechanic who rebuilt the cylinder, he recommended changing out the hydraulic fluid every two or three years to avoid the problems I had.

Do you really need the hassle and expense? 15s steer extremely well with a Teleflex cable system - why not just get an up to date version.

Tim

Edited by tedious on 01/21/13 - 2:14 PM

Posted by VRC on 01/21/13 - 7:35 PM
#4

I installed a Baystar unit on my previously owned GLS 15. It performed well. See the links below for pictures.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b15...nsole3.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b15...G_2904.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b15...G_2903.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b15...maha70.jpg

Posted by butchdavis on 01/22/13 - 6:50 AM
#5

IMO, it would be overkill on a 15.

Posted by SeaStar Steering on 01/22/13 - 7:50 AM
#6

Hey Users: Marc Adams here, I am the Technical Support Rep for Teleflex Marine Hydraulic Steering systems (includes BayStar, SeaStar, Hynautic and Capilano).

figured that I would jump in here.

I have seen a few Whalers with the BayStar / SeaStar installed, honestly have not seen a 15'. This doesn't mean that it will not work on board, I just have not seen it myself. We do offer an adapter kit for the helm that brings it closer into the dash, so, for those that feel maybe it protrudes too much, we can always bring it back in.

As per other users on this thread. They are correct in stating that the SeaStar hoses can be used with a BayStar system, this results in about a 20% decrease in steering effort when installed (that's quite a bit actually).

my personal opinion on the 15' is to go with the new Teleflex Extreme Cable Steering set up. This system has taken the technology of the extreme control cables and brought it into the steering world. Less friction on the cables, some enhancements to the helm and it feels really nice, some say better than BayStar for a cheaper cost. I do invite you to view it at your local dealer or online.

in regards to questions with cylinders/helms leaking. I hear these questions a lot (its my job speaking with customers like yourselves). What I have found over my years here is that maintenance (or lack there of) has played a big role in parts leaking. No one really thinks that anything needs to be done with the steering (cable or hydraulic), however as with any component on board a boat there are a few things that should be done on a yearly basis (more often if in salt or boat has heavy use). I will detail these below. They may not seem like they will change anything but trust me, we have done a lot of research into this and even made some clear maintenance procedures to try to assist. Before I get to the maintenance and such, i always ask that if you have a question or concern, either email me, or send me a PM, or, start a thread. One thing that I have always liked about working for Teleflex is the fact that they allow us techs to handle each and every inquiry the way that we would want it handled if we were on the other side of the question.

Maintenance: (should be done at least once a year, twice a year for salt water and heavy use boats)
* disconnect steering cylinder from engine
* clean engine steering tube fully
* grease the engine steering tube using a good quality marine grease
* re-install the steering cylinder, greasing all contact points (see your owner's manual for grease areas)

The more easy components are able to move during trim/tilt and steering, the longer the seals will last.

Also - I did see a question about changing fluid every few years. We actually do not recommend draining the fluid unless there is a known problem with the fluid condition (dirty, milky, contaminated)... The system is considered sealed, so, if the system is operating properly, the fluid is clean, then there really is no need to touch the fluid in the system.

thanks and hope that this helps

Marc

Posted by tedious on 01/22/13 - 3:13 PM
#7

Thanks Marc! It's great to have you participate in the forum - I wish more manufacturers did so.

While I was disappointed in having to repair my system after only 7 years, I will admit that it was in salt water, and that I never did anything besides greasing the grease points on the steering tube - certainly did not remove it, clean, and regrease. Perhaps that would have made a difference, as you say. In fairness to Teleflex, I'll also say that the newer helm pump design is sealed significantly better around the fluid fill port, which is where I suspect my problem initiated. And also that the steering works extremely well in general.

Do those maintenance steps get called out in the newer owner's manual? I don't recall seeing them in mine, vintage 2005.

To the original question, I still maintain that hydraulic steering is overkill for a 15 - why whould you go to the expense and trouble, when the Teleflex cable products work so well?

Thanks again!

Tim

Posted by SeaStar Steering on 01/23/13 - 7:54 AM
#8

Hey there - Thanks for the kind note.

Even myself I will admit that the early model BayStar helms did not have the best front cover, they were produced with cost in mind and the composite front cover did not hold up that well, sometimes a seal kit would work and sometimes not (I sent out a lot of these seal kits just to have customers try before they purchased a new one). When the tooling came time for replacement we made a decision to move it into the same style as the SeaStar front Cover (cosmetically a little different, but same in all areas)

as for maintenance. This wasn't spelled out as clear as it could have been in the early manuals, however we have (well, me, because I write the manuals) have tried very hard with current books to really out line not only what to do, but how often to do it. all current manuals have this expanded maintenance details. I will check our web page and make sure that they are up to date, and if not, they will be in just a few days..

I stand behind you. Hydraulic is nice, no doubt about that, but on a 15' it is no doubt overkill considering the cables should work just fine..

as always, if you have any questions please feel free to ask...

cheers,

Marc

Posted by Tom W Clark on 01/23/13 - 8:07 AM
#9

Marc -- Thank you for joining the discussion here at Whaler Central. A lot of what I know about Teleflex hydraulic steering, I have learned from you.

I have not heard of the Teleflex Xtreme steering cables before now. When did they come out?

How much more do they cost?

Do they tolerate a tighter bending radius like the Teleflex Xtreme control cables do?


Posted by tedious on 01/23/13 - 8:33 AM
#10

Thanks Marc - I'll check the web page for the updated manual.

Just to clarify, the system I needed to rebuild was the Seastar, not Baystar. The new, updated Seastar helm pump has a rubber snap-in cover that keeps the fill plug from being exposed to the elements at all - on the old one, there is nothing but the o-ring on the filler plug keeping water and contaminants out. That may have been where my problem originated - I certainly didn't ever have to add fluid, and I think that would have been the case if the cylinder seals were compromised. In any event, it's fixed now.

Again, thanks for participating!

Tim

Posted by SeaStar Steering on 01/23/13 - 9:58 AM
#11

tedious wrote:
Thanks Marc - I'll check the web page for the updated manual.

Just to clarify, the system I needed to rebuild was the Seastar, not Baystar. The new, updated Seastar helm pump has a rubber snap-in cover that keeps the fill plug from being exposed to the elements at all - on the old one, there is nothing but the o-ring on the filler plug keeping water and contaminants out. That may have been where my problem originated - I certainly didn't ever have to add fluid, and I think that would have been the case if the cylinder seals were compromised. In any event, it's fixed now.

Again, thanks for participating!

Tim


Hey - sorry about that (getting them mixed up). Yes the new tilt helms are fitted with the rubber flap and are a massive improvement to keep water out...

thanks and if you have any questions please let me know
Marc

Posted by SeaStar Steering on 01/23/13 - 10:03 AM
#12

Tom W Clark wrote:
Marc -- Thank you for joining the discussion here at Whaler Central. A lot of what I know about Teleflex hydraulic steering, I have learned from you.

I have not heard of the Teleflex Xtreme steering cables before now. When did they come out?

How much more do they cost?

Do they tolerate a tighter bending radius like the Teleflex Xtreme control cables do?



Hey Tom - We released them late last year (even won an innovation award at IBEX). I am not sure of costs myself, they keep that information away from me because I always gave out the wrong costs... LOL

i am checking on the bend radius and will let you know, but I do believe that it will still remain the same..

take a look at this link http://www.teleflexmarine.com/product...stallation

I have felt these myself and to be honest, I worry that this will chomp into my BayStar sales... (doesn't really matter though as we are all one big family any ways)...

cheers and will get back with you in regards to bend radius

M

Edited by Tom W Clark on 01/23/13 - 10:36 AM

Posted by Tom W Clark on 01/23/13 - 10:47 AM
#13

I found this .PDF brochure for the new Xtreme steering:

http://www.teleflexmarine.com/wp-cont...ochure.pdf

This is VERY interesting. It is not only a new steering cable but a new helm design as well with an improved clutch with less back-lash. If the steering cable offers as much improvement over the standard mechanical cable as the Xtreme control cables did, it will be profoundly smoother.

It appears to be fully backward compatible with the older Teleflex Sate-T-II and 4.2 NFB systems so it would be a direct and simple swap out for any old Whaler, is that correct?

May we assume this is a 4.2 turns lock-to-lock system as well? What is the maximum HP this system is rated to handle?

Some quick online shopping seems to suggest that the whole kit, which lists for about $500 could be had for $350 or less.

Yeah, for a little 15' GLS, this is going to be the way to go.

Posted by SeaStar Steering on 01/23/13 - 11:03 AM
#14

Tom - Just got confirmation on some things, as follows;

Bend radius we are keeping the same as the non Extreme, MIN of 8".

it is only compatible in the sense that the foot prints and such are the same. The Extreme cable only works with the Extreme helm (you won't get an non-Extreme cable to fit in the Extreme helm, and vise versa). in other words, if replacing and older system you will want to purchase the entire kit.

this is 5-turns lock to lock

the price sounds about right to me, and I agree, for the 15' it is an absolute perfect fit... I see a lot of these Extreme systems being sold in the near future to be hones...

Edited by Tom W Clark on 01/23/13 - 6:02 PM

Posted by Tom W Clark on 01/23/13 - 6:07 PM
#15

5 turns lock-to-lock?! Really? That might be a deal breaker for me.

I hate that slow steering. Dick Fisher, in the early Boston Whaler Owner's Manuals used to warn against "gearing down the steering" because it reduces your ability to react if need be and increases the time required to change course to avoid hitting something.

For little 13, 15 and 17 foot Whalers, 5 turns is w a y too much. The 4.2 is OK and I like the old Safe-T and its 3.0 turns lock-to-lock for the small boats. I want steering like a sports car, not a bus.

Posted by SeaStar Steering on 01/24/13 - 1:38 PM
#16

Tom W Clark wrote:
5 turns lock-to-lock?! Really? That might be a deal breaker for me.

I hate that slow steering. Dick Fisher, in the early Boston Whaler Owner's Manuals used to warn against "gearing down the steering" because it reduces your ability to react if need be and increases the time required to change course to avoid hitting something.

For little 13, 15 and 17 foot Whalers, 5 turns is w a y too much. The 4.2 is OK and I like the old Safe-T and its 3.0 turns lock-to-lock for the small boats. I want steering like a sports car, not a bus.


I have to agree on the 5-turn. I think that this is more geared at the higher, larger boats that currently are using BayStar (which is also a 5-turn)....

Cheers and will pass along your thoughts...

Posted by Joe Kriz on 01/24/13 - 2:55 PM
#17

Concerning Boston Whaler boats here only, and according to your website, BayStar should not be used on 150hp high performance motors.

BayStar is NOT recommended for use with high performance, 150HP engines (such as Mercury Optimax 150HP engines).

BayStar is NOT recommended for use on any single engine, high speed boat (such as Bass Boats). Applications such as these should use SeaStar PRO systems only.

So, Outrage 18's and above that have 150hp should use the SeaStar.

That basically leaves the 13', 15', and 16/17' hulls that can use the BayStar.
These are smaller boats, and as Tom mentions, a Sports car feel and quicker reaction times might be what these owners would prefer.

I know many 16/17' hulls, like my prior Montauk 17', had the Big-T Rotary with 3 turns lock-to-lock.
http://www.teleflexmarine.com/product...-steering/

Personally, I preferred the Big-T as opposed to the newer NFB with 4.2 turns lock-to-lock.

Thanks for posting here and keeping us informed.

Posted by jamesgt727 on 01/25/13 - 7:29 AM
#18

I have a 1987 15 Sport, and I chose the UFLEX (ULTRAFLEX) SILVER STEER hydraulic system. This system is good for any HP motor, twin, triple etc. I only have the part that attaches to the motor on right now, but its mounted on a jack plate. See my personal page to view. I have this exact system on a 17 foot boat too. I did not listen to the popular opinion, I went with the Hydraulic systems, in every case, driving, towing, storage, and service, its better than the other method, or at least I found. Its worth the extra money if you don't have a budget and it looks cooler too, which is the most important thing!

Posted by Tom W Clark on 01/25/13 - 8:12 AM
#19

By all means, if price is no object, buy the SeaStar hydraulic system for your 15 footer. You can choose how many turn lock-to-lock you want by selecting the appropriate helm size.

Most guys do not want to invest $1,000 into the steering for a 15 footer though.

Posted by fattoesrussell on 08/12/17 - 8:44 AM
#20

Blew a hole in the 5/16 nylon hydraulic hose on a 19 Outrage with an older Hynautic system. Having a hard time locating the tubing and fittings. Live in eastern Mass.

Posted by Phil T on 08/12/17 - 11:25 AM
#21

Try visiting a supply house that carries hydraulic supplies

i.e. F.W. Webb in Bedford