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I obtained a 19' Guardian bare hull to rig myself, from scratch. Looking for wish-list advice how YOU would do this project. I will appreciate any comments about all facets. My thoughts at the moment: 115 Hp e-tec for the weight savings. Hydraulic steering. Mt-3 control. A custom consule of a far simpler geometrical design than the factory version, which will feature NO drink holders. NO rails of any sort so I can get out of the boat easily (and back into it easily after I fall overboard).

Seating: not sure yet; maybe a 120 qt. size Igloo type cooler on brackets so I can kick it out of the way for tons of free floor space aft of the consule for a casting space...or as sleeping bag space on bass fishing overnighters.

My thinking is the consule placement, size, and design are key: Is there a way to rig an easy on/easy off windshield hardware? I need the inside precious dry space, but I want HUGE walkaround room on both sides. I've measured the width and height of the Whaler "stock" consules on both their 17 and 19 Montauk models, and I think the size of the stock consule they put on their 19 is "too big" for what I want to accomplish.

I rigged a 17 Alert bare hull eight years ago, and learned a lot doing so; and I ended up with a really clean rig. How could I resist upsizing to the 19' when they came out with it?

Bonds, Sauerkraut

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What year is this 19' Guardian bare hull?

And you want to turn it into a Montauk 190?
http://www.whalercentral.com/userphot...lbum_id=35

Here are some photos of standard Boston Whaler center consoles for years up to about 1995.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=58

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There's a Guardian console for sale on eBay right now: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Boston...iesQ5fGear

And another:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1980-1...iesQ5fGear

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Thank You for all this information! This is a great site.

The Guardian hull is brand new: 2008. And yes, to the question that I will basically be turnng the hull into a 19' "Montauk", minus the drink holders, rails, and a Mercury product.

Bonds, Sauerkraut

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sauerkraut,

Good. Now we know a little more information about what you intend to do.

You have a brand new Guardian 19' which has the same hull as the 190 Montauk with the squared off bow.
Guardian 19'

Also available for this model is the Alert side console.
Have you viewed the option on the Whaler commercial site?
I have attached the floor diagram from Whalers site for the Alert model with the side console.

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Thanks for your reply about a side consule setup for this project, but I'm going to center-consule this 19. I am sure the local BW dealer is getting tired of me eyeballing his Montauk 19's and not buying anything. I assume it is okay to screw down a consule on that big piece of "screwed down" glass floor panel which essentially covers the 60 gal. tank?

Another look around question I have-- is how do I get a 12 volt wire up front for a bow light? Does the wiring run in the rubrailing? OUCH if it does; this means I'll have to remove it to get a wire into it.

I'm picking up the engine this coming week. I found a good-will dealer who will fork lift the crate into my truck, and send me home with the proper lifting eye, drill bit, and template. I bring the finished product back to him for the initial engine start. We're a long way away from that stage, but it also looks like a long winter...

Bonds, Sauerkraut

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You should bring your boat to Edgewater Florida during Xmas, put an ad in the local help wanted, and get some laid off or on vacation Boston Whaler employees to finish your boat for 25 cents on the dollar. I'm only half-joking.

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sauerkraut,

I was going by another thread where you recommended NOT to convert to a center console so I thought you were not wanting a center console.
http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...post_34167

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Whaler Dan: Great idea to help out some probably beleaguered, in the trenches Whaler factory lads. I would hope instead that the Company would just be a little more flexible and innovative to move an extra hull or ten.

Mr. Kriz: I did give a moment of thought to a long side consule on this 19' the way i did with my 17' but decided in favor of a 17 Montauk sized center consule, only aboout 30" wide. This 19' hull is 81" wide on the inside and should leave a relative hallway on each side.



Now, about getting a 12 V. wire to a bowlight-- do I remove a brand new rubrail?

Bonds, Sauerkraut

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No problem Mr. Sauerkraut or is it Mr. Bonds ??

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All of my 12v wires are behind the rub rail. Also how are you saving weight with an E-tec? BG

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BG: I'm pretty sure I am saving some weight from the stock, Mercury 115 hp. 4-stroke which is usually delivered with these boats; and I am certain that the Honda 4-stroke 115 hp. is close to 498 lbs.

I just love the Hondas. I have two of them-- just 50hp's, both pushing 17 Montauk hulls. Definitely and deliberately underpowered to be sure, which is just great for one solo person, and also great for countless hours of yearly slow trolling (in the Lake Ontario fishery). However, when I repowered these 17's years ago, from a 70 hp. 2-stroke Evinrude, I was "forced" to step down in 4-stroke power in order to maintain roughly similar transom weight.

Every pound makes a difference in anybody's small boat.

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I am under the impression that alot of people think the etec is the weight of a 2 stroke and there not. Merc 115 4 stroke 399# and E-tec 115 in at 375#. I also slow troll and am sold on the 4 stroke for that. I had the 70 evenrude 4 stroke(Suzuki) on my Montauk and was very happy with it. Are you going to be slow trolling with the Gaurdian ?

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We need to look at several other things about engines here also.

Barry,
1. The weight you give for the Mer 115 4 stroke is for the 20 inch shaft.
You would need to add 5 more pounds or so to that for a 25 inch shaft which is what the Outrage use for single motor applications.

2. The Merc 115 4 stroke is NOT as clean as the E-Tec 115.
The E-Tec is CARB3 rated but the Merc 115 4 stroke is NOT...
This makes a lot of difference to a lot of people, especially for the Californians.

Check out the article I wrote for Current Engine Choices.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...ticle_id=6

I agree, some of the 4 strokes have been losing weight but they are still heavier that the E-Tec 2 strokes.

Trolling is absolutely no problem with the E-Tec. They are not like the earlier 2 strokes as they don't load up. They are clean burning.

Personally, I am not sold on the 4 strokes.
1. Too many moving parts.
2. Too many scheduled service appointments.
3. Heavier than the E-Tec...
4. Some of the 4 strokes are not as clean (CARB3) rated as the E-Tecs.

I have no intention of getting in any wars here over 2 stroke versus 4 strokes.
They are all good engines these days.

However,
Those 4 points I listed above in bold cannot be argued... They are facts...

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Thanks, BG and JK for your discussions. I do not plan on virtually any slow trolling with the Guardian/115 hp. setup. It sure seems like there is a lot of hocus-pocus mis or dys--information out there about engine weights, and engine horsepowers. But JK's post seems reassuring that I'm not a total idiot as I'm two days away from bolting on the new engine.

Okay, now for the 12 V. wire for a bow light: I have to rip off the rubber part of the rubrail, right? Are there any tricks to this, or anything I need to beware? We're in an unheated garage. Do I need heat to do this rubrail?

Thank you (and Bonds to all Whaler owners)

Sauerkraut

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Well, I wouldn't rip it off. You might want to reuse it..... :)

Definitely it needs to be warm... Definitely...
Make sure it is soft and moveable.

But first of all, make sure you don't already have wires running in there.
You can pry off the bottom edge of the black rub rail using a wooden tool. I have a strong wood putty knife I use. Pry off the bottom in one section and you should be able to start pulling it out. See if there are any wires under there.
I am not familiar with the Montauk 190 hull so I don't know where these wires would even start from. On the Classic Outrage series, these wires start at the midsection of the hull and then run forward thru the rub rail.

Where are your wires supposed to start from? besides the console of course?

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So, my project progress, as I mentioned in my comments to the "190 Montauk Owners" Thread on the General Discussions page...115 hp. E-tec. is bolted on; the center consule of most modest size (and resultant huge walk-around room) is chosen and being fabricated.

Getting a 12 V. wire to a bowlight is a real hassle in my mind at the moment. Brunswick Commercial Products Inc. "thinks" that the wire runs in the stbd. rubrail to the aft quarter of the boat where they fuse the stern mold to the rest of the boat mold. Then this wire winds up below decks and thence to the center consule, etc. So, they lay this wire up during molding-production they "think"! God help us that any number of Whaler dealers and salesmen around here would know what's going on! So, I guess the stbd rubrail comes off; I run a wire, hopefully in the rubrail right around the stbd stern quarter and all the way back to the engine, and then have the wire follow the motor wiring through the tunnels all the way back to the consule.

The hassle in my mind is that I want to think this all out thrice before I drill once.

I have some questions: for the standard Whaler 190 Montauk bow fixture, is this Whaler part #1748820? And is the price of approx. $162 about right? This seems awful cheap, and therefore I'm wondering, without seeing a picture or the fixture if I'm thinking the right thing. I recall paying over $275, three years ago for the bow light fixture for one of my 17 Montauks.

Hydraulic steering: Does anybody have any thoughts about the Baystar kit vs. the much more expensive Seastar systems?

Thank you, Sauerkraut

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The Baystar is a fine system for motors up to 150 hp...

150 hp and over should utilize the SeaStar.


So for your 115 hp, the Baystar will be fine.

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Okay...thank you, guys, for helping me in the Personal section how to post a picture.

The bow fixture is off my 1983 17' Whaler that, years ago, I could not bring myself to throw away when I replaced it with a newer, shinier, more watertight fixture that did not have a broken red/green lens. Now I am undecided whether I should do this new hull project with a new 190 Whaler bow fixture (roughly $175), or rechrome, relens, and retap this fixture for roughly twice as much! What would you do?

The center strip of the rubrail peels out neatly and easily. Assuming there is room in that space for two 16 Ga. wires, for a wire run all the way back to the stern, then all my fretting about bow wiring this bare hull was unnecessary.

One thing I will NOT do is take the fiberglass floor up that overlies the fuel tank. I will do everything to avoid this. It is really screwed and sealed down. here is a fiberglass "rain gutter" that runs along the stbd edge of the fuel tank for hose, cable, and wire runs from stern to center consule which does not look accessible short of lifting said floor.

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I would purchase a new 190 Montauk bow fixture...

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I found this last week. While I have never ordered from this site my father has and has been happy with the products and service.
Bow Light.

I was thinking of ordering one for my new 13 project. I am not sure if it is from the OEM manufacture or not but, it looks great, and for the price it is tough to beat.

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This is the E-tec 115 I just bolted on. While I am awaiting the consule, I'll put on the Baystar hydraulic; then start running the engine harness, oil tube, battery cables, a sonar transducer wire, nav lights electrical wire, and hydraulic lines under the floor...

OK, Ill use a new bow fixture, Mr. JK. That price for the fixture just posted to me makes me cry. I already ordered the same part more expensively. Maybe I won't make the same mistake ordering a Baystar hydraulic kit.

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Nice engine Mr. SK....... (SauerKraut)

Nice looking installation but your rub rail is already falling off.... :o

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Talk to Seabob before buying a Teleflex Baystar hydraulic kit of any kind.

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BTW sauerkraut,

Where and how did you get new, bare hull Guardian? Were you able to order it without a motor?

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Also curious how you were able to swing rigging the Etec yourself, was a local dealer agreeable?

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Yes, I was able to find a local dealer who was willing to forklift the still crated motor into the back of my truck. Furthermore and unasked, he even sent me home with the drilling template, the drillbit, and the bolt on lifting eye out of his shop to handle the engine.

When the project is completed, however, I will bring the rig to him because he wants to be the first person to start and program the engine. Now this is what I call a dealer!

Any number of others didn't trust me beyond my diapers. So, instead of the engine costing me "x" amount of $$, it was x + $ up to $1200 for them to do it.

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The project is moving along, albeit slowly as it is COLD an an unheated garage and tough to get psyched up to get down to work. Also awaiting the center consule to get fabricated.

I think it is advantageous that I managed to stuff the battery, E-tec oil reservoir, fuel/water seperator filter, bilge pump, and battery cutoff switch below deck via the hatch access in the splashwell. This leaves the boat neat and clean topside, and it frees up in entirety the valuable and limited weather and waterproof area inside the center consule. This will be a maintenance hassle; but the other 29 out of 30 times I use the boat, all this "stuff" is mercifully out of the way.

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Any photo updates you can add?

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This is about Whaler Inc. rigging of their running lights on some of their models. Why in the world would they place a stern light post right in the middle of a center consule? Why, right in front of the pilot trying for his best night vision? And why would anyone design to take up such valuable and limited consule flat space with a fixture, when this space is needed for compasses, electronics, or some hooks and gear?

Here's my solution which I have used on streamlining and rerigging of two other small boats. It works so well, I'm surprised the outboard manufacturers don't do this from the factory.

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The pic is taken over the bars of the steering arm, and down the splashwell hatch (9.5" x 12.5" i.d.} showing the battery forward and the oil reservoir to port.

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Great progress sauerkraut. Is the battery below the waterline? Also, is there any concern about the battery being in the same compartment as the fuel tank?

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I have same concerns regarding battery -- mostly the venting issue.

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I agree having the running light in the console is a VERY bad place for it but I suspect the reason it is there is to keep it out of the way in the stern for fishing or other activities. There is not good solid place to mount the stern light there.

While your solution is convenient, and is often done by others in your situation, the light is not legal.

The all-around white light must be one meter higher than the bow lights. That's not going to work with a cowling mounted light fixture

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Thank you all for your comments.

Regarding the stern light being illegal because it fails to conform to a certain height...you are technically correct. Unfortunately for my boating past, the Coast Guard has tacitly informed me that the stern light passes their critical review and muster on multiple boardings over the years (or maybe the CG was more interested in hunting down contraband amongst my 30 onboard bass plugs and two dozen live eels, upon finding me prowling around in some unlikely spot in the middle of the night, or middle of some horrendous "bass weather").

Good thought about battery below the waterline. When I get the boat in the water, I will be interested to turn off the bilgepump and pull the plug at dockside, just to see where where the static waterline settles out. I'll make the optimistic assumption that the waterline shouldn't go up more than say half the mount height of the battery wall. Anyhow, if it happens that said battery position is "below the waterline", then I just have a boat with bilge that is bilgepump dependent. I have a Fortier diesel inboard which has the potential at any time, to fail the output of the bilgepumps, fill with water, submerge the batteries, and keep on filling with water and then finally sink! At least the Whaler wouldn't sink.

I never thought about battery venting until your comment. It seems like there is a huge amount of airspace down there under and around the fueltank. Furthermore, I am using a 6" access port for a fuel guage already cut into the deck for the tunnel opening into the center consule. That should be a generous vent port for this below deck compartment.

I do not see any downside to a battery in this same bilge airspace compartment as the fueltank. The fuel should be a closed system from the bilge compartment as the tank is vented externally, as is the fill, and the engine. I do have three electrical switches down there: main battery cutoff switch, a little mounted compartment work light with toggle, and of course, the bilgepump switch which will fire depending on water level.

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I had an interesting time battling with this Baystar plastic rigid memory hydraulic tubing this past weekend and tunneling it. I tried to prepare by taping the tube straight out for many days. It didn't help at all. Wondering if I should back shove a protective sleeve of something over the consule front end of the tubing before I attach the tubing to the helm. Otherwise, I'm going to let it lie as is in the underdeck space.

Any suggestions appreciated.

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Very nice project.... Its has been helping me through these cold winter days following your progress.

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It's been a cold project on this boat in an unheated garage, but i have slowly moved along...I picked a ready made rather TINY consule as I said I would, so I could maximize free flat space, especially on the walk arounds. I was forewarned, as the accompanying picture shows, that just screwing the consule down would be cosmetically a little ugly, and it is. That's the least of my problems getting this ready for an engine start and launch, but I will come back to this issue. Sure would be nice to hide the external screws and flange with some sort of teak trim, etc., but I do not want to create something that I'll be tripping upon.

I did get that nasty, inflexible Baystar hydraulic tubing set in for the steering, but my first try with the helm end cut-to-fit tubing attachment to the helm leaked and I had to redo it at a considerable mess and hassle with the system redraining and refilling. Sure did have me thinking how simple and tidy a NFB cable steering would be.

Even though I started this project off with a "bare hull", I felt the need to tamper with or completely change the Whaler under deck fuel lines and deck drain hoses to the stern because they were just too sloppily too long,and coiled and curved all over the place in the tank/bilge compartment, so I could utilize the underdeck bilge area maximally for battery, oil reservoir, fuel fileter, and cable runs.

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sauerkraut,

These photos would be much better off in a project album, personal page, or an article.
If you would like to start a project album please let us know.
Or, submit an article using the link on the left sidebar.

You can view all the project albums by different members here:
http://www.whalercentral.com/photogal...allery.php

The easiest way for you is to start a personal page.
Click on the "Edit Personal Page" under your name on the right sidebar.
Read the Rules at the top and the tutorial on how to do this.
http://www.whalercentral.com/faq.php?...p?cat_id=1

Threads like this will just get lost and probably never found again amongst the 30,000 or so other posts.
That's why creating a personal page, project album, or an article is much better for everyone in the future as these will be much easier to find.