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I am thinking of keeping my 17 Montauk in the water this year and would like to convert my manual bilge to an auto. However, I do not have enough room in the bilge area to allow for a float device. Do they make an auto bilge with a built-in float to accomodate this small area? If so, what make/model is the best choice.

Thanks,
Joe

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Rule makes a combo pump with a built in float. Check with Boaters world or West Marine. you will also need to replace the switch on your console to make sure it has a manual and auto position

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The RuleMate 500 or 750 fits very nicely inside the sump on a Montauk or other 16/17' hull.

It has a built-in float switch. I have used these on all of my Whalers from the Montauk to the Outrage 22'......

http://www.rule-industries.com/produc.../index.htm

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I wired my Bilge pump in direct (protected circuit of course), why bother with a switch at the console ? If any water gets in the sump, bilge goes "ON", I never understood the need for a "Man/auto/off" switch on an "automatic" bilge pump, Any idea's ?
mw

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The most important task is to wire the bilge pump correctly. I've seen new boats from the manufacturer that are not hot wired to the battery. If this is incorrect then a auto bilge pump feature is useless. I tend to like the addtion of a switch so that the pump can be shut off. There are times when aboard a little water enters the bilge and the auto pump keeps cycling. I prefer the lighted three way bilge pump switch. The following wiring instructions I gleaned from Dan Casey hopefully it is helpful.

Bilge pump installation is straightforward, but it is essential not to overlook key details.

Mount the pump
You must not place the pump in the bilge unrestrained. If it falls over it will suck air and burn out. Pumps must be fastened down. Brackets are available that attach to a stringer or other vertical feature, or you can epoxy a couple of bolts to the bottom of the bilge to serve as mounting studs.

Float switches must also be fastened.

Use smooth-bore hose
Corrugated hose reduces pump output by as much as 30%, so always connect the pump to the discharge fitting with hose that has a smooth interior surface.

Bends and long runs also reduce pump output, so make the hose run as straight and as short as possible. That may mean discharging the pump through the side of the hull rather than through the transom. However. . .

Place the discharge above the waterline
If the discharge is submerged when the pump runs, the ocean siphons back through the pump into the bilge when the pump shuts off. When enough water has entered to float the switch, the pump will eject it, only to have it siphon back again. This continues until the battery is depleted, then the water floods the boat until it reaches a level that gets the crew's attention.

The discharge fitting must never go below the waterline. If the fitting is through the transom, be sure it is high enough not to submerge when the stern squats. And if it is through the side of the hull, it must be high enough to remain above the water at the deepest angle of heel.

Use a thin-wall fitting
The through-hull fitting can further reduce pump capacity. To minimize this restriction, use a fitting with the largest possible opening.

Lead wiring up
It is essential to get the pump wiring out of the bilge as quickly as possible. Run the wires up and secure them so that they do not sag into the bilge water.

Don't skimp on wire size
A 3,500 gph pump will draw 15 amps, typically necessitating 10-gauge, or maybe even 8-gauge wire. Consult the ABYC Wire Size Table to determine the appropriate wire for your pump and length of wire run.

Use butt connectors and heat shrink
Crimp-on step-down butt connectors will assure a good mechanical and electrical connection between the supply wires and the pump leads. Enclose these connections in adhesive heat shrink tubing to make them water tight. You must slide the heat shrink over the wire and out of the way before you make the connections. Then center the tubing over the crimped connector and shrink it with a heat gun or by playing a flame beneath it. Be sure there are no explosive fumes in the bilge!

Connect to the battery
When you turn the power off to leave the boat unattended, you don't want to turn off the bilge pump. Connect an automatic bilge pump directly to the battery, not through the distribution panel.

Fuse the positive side
It is essential to have a fuse in the positive wire as close to the battery as possible. Some switch panels (see below) include a fuse. Otherwise join an in-line fuse holder to the battery end of the positive wire using a crimp butt connector.

Install terminal fittings
Do not strip the ends of the supply wires and loop them beneath the battery terminal wing nuts. Install crimp-on ring terminals the proper size to fit the threaded posts on your battery. Use a copper washer-not steel-between the wing nut and the ring terminal.

Three-way switch
If your bilge pump has a separate float switch, you may want to wire it to a three way switch that allows you to select automatic, on, or off. Be sure to support all wire runs at least every 18 inches using cable clamps or ties.

Two pumps
A bilge pump big enough to deal with a real emergency will do a poor job of keeping the bilge dry because the water in the discharge hose drains back into the bilge when the pump shuts off. And a big pump requires a big hose.

The ideal bilge pump arrangement is a small (400 gph) automatic bilge pump mounted in the sump to dispense with rain and shaft-gland leakage, combined with a high capacity pump (3,500 gph) mounted higher to deal with more serious ingress.

Stepping the discharge hose from the small pump down to 1/2-inch minimizes the backflow from the hose when the pump cycles, maintaining a dryer bilge. The large pump can be wired to a float switch if you prefer, but I think a manual switch makes more sense. An added advantage of this bilge pump configuration is that the high-capacity pump sits high and dry, extending its life indefinitely.

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Joe,
I follow the KISS principle. On a Montauk, get a 500 GPH or 700GPH rule pump with integrated float switch. The question is, do you plan on using this only when the boat is in the slip to remove rain water or will you be using it while the boat is underway? If you only want to use only while the boat is in the slip, then wire the pump to a switch with an inline fuse. That way you can turn the pump off and pull the plug. If you plan to leave the plug in, then wire it directly to the battery with an inline fuse. You should plan on getting either a solar panel or battery trickle charger to keep the battery topped off although the worse that can happen is you have a dead battery and lots of water in the boat. btw where is your battery, stern or console?

I have two pumps on my 18, a 1100 GPH in the sump and a 500 GPH in the splashwell. Both are wired to a 2 position switch at the console and they are wired to a fuse panel and the fuse panel is wired to a 30 amp breaker that I use as a master on/off switch. I only use mine while the boat is underway since the bracket puts the splashwell drains under water. I also need both when pulling on or off the jetdock since water comes over the stern. When the boat is on the jetdock, turn off the master breaker and pull the plugs.

When I kept the boat in the water, I used the same setup, the difference The bilge pumps were on their own switch with inline fuses, I could leave the switch for the bilge pumps on auto while I had a master switch that controlled the remaining electronics (GPS; VHF; Lights) that I turned off. I hooked up a small solar panel to the battery to keep it charged. Never did I show up to the boat and have a dead battery, which is important if you have to drive 75 miles one way to the boat.

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A 5 gallon bucket, and a frightened man, will out perform "ANY" bilge pump.

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True, but only if the frightened man is standing in the boat.

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I have had really bad luck with Atwood auto pumps. The internal float works for a very short period of time. IS the concensous out there that rule makes a better product?

Why would the man with the 5 gallon bucket be worried if he's in an unsinkable hull??

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I think that "Rule" makes a better pump, I've also noticed that some "Rule" pumps work better than other "Rule" pumps right out of the pkg., either way I only get one or two season's out of a 500 gph "Rule" pump, the boat is uncovered, and in a slip all summer, so it gets a work out.

Why would a man in an unsinkable boat need a Bilge pump ?

mw ;)

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You've got me ther MW!

I think it's impotant to be able to drain the 1/4 inch of water that might collect in the sump if I splash some water on board.

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There's only a little water in the sump (about 1/4"), It's tough to drain out because the pump sits up just a bit high in it's wooden mount, this works well to keep sand out of the pump that runs down the gutter after a beach landing, This is from everyone getting back in the boat with sand on their feet. You may also cring from that sandy sneaker going on top of the beautiful anchor locker cover that you painfully finished in the winter (ya can't yell at them, they are your guest's, and look how happy they are on your Whaler). I noticed that on the 15' (maybe 13' models too), a rule float switch, and a 500 gph pump, can "JUST" fit in there, the "Rule super switch" works best to prevent cycling but, is larger, and is a real tight squeeze, I now use the smaller float switch, it makes "Change outs" easier, and only cycles on "take off", (sometimes). All kidding aside, a 5 gallon bucket should be kept on board in case you really need to dump some water fast over the side, we won't sink but, who wants to fish with water up to their knees, a 500 gph pump is really only big enough to keep out rain water, if you take one over the bow, it will take some time for the small pump to evacuate the water. The first wave that hits you will not swamp you, that's just what I call the "SET UP" wave, It's the second and third wave that get's you swamped because, now the boat's REALLY low to the water, and wave number 2 and 3 are now coming in. Our boat's won't sink but, remember, WE ARE NOT BULLETPROOF, they can still get swamped and capsize. KEEP THE PFD ON AT ALL TIMES ! I know I always say this but, if it prevents one of us from drowning, I feel it's worth it ! "Cosco", "Moose", and other w/c members always have their PFD's on in personal pics, so it's a good bet that they wear them all the time... way to go guy's !
mw