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New Montauk 17 owner here (1986). The long brass drain tube was corroded at the transom end when we purchased the boat. We were able to get it out, and had all of the replacement parts on hand - the brass tube with the preflanged end, the Moeller tool, a long threaded rod, 3m 420, o-rings, etc.

But the old tube was slightly curved, following the course of the opening. The new, straight, tube gets nearly to the end and then the edge of it digs into the transom material on the port corner (roughly 7:30-8 pm when viewed from the exterior). (It digs even worse, and earlier, when inserted from the transom side.) We've tried levering it with a screwdriver (on the inside of the tube) to try to help ease it past the obstruction, but nothing budges it.

I'm not aware of any tube benders in a 1" size - at least not that are available economically or from a local hardware store. I'm hesitant to just freestyle bend it with a vise, but maybe that's the only way.

Is this a common problem/issue? I've read a bunch of drain tube articles, here and at Continuous Wave, and I don't remember seeing it mentioned.

Does anyone have any ideas for how to solve it?

BTW I'm not wedded to brass - I'd happily use PVC. But there doesn't appear to be a consensus about parts and PVC specs. If I've missed a definitive PVC solution, please let me know.

Thanks,

Matt

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The issue is not a bent tube.......the flange/bend on the end of the tube needs to be custom angled. The drain tubes are custom fit. There are several steep angles for the tubes for my 1979 22' Revenge. I felt the outer angle the most critical. I placed a non flared tube in the hole, scribed it with a fine point magic marker, cut the tube parallel above the mark(I believe I cut 3/16" above the mark, it has been a while). Annealed the tube end and matched the angle working on a vice. I did lose a couple of pieces but I bought extra tubing. I then dry fit the piece in place and finished did the opposite (inside)end in place. Repeating the scribing, cutting, and annealing using the tool. I actually preferred using the flaring tool head on a bolt, have some one hold a heavy wooden block on the finished side, and hammering the opposite side , gently shaping. The hulls are not 90 degree angles.

I never worked with a pre fabricated tube. I would imagine the tube was annealed and might still be soft. Set it on a vice. I used some leather inside the jaws to prevent scratching and distorting. Put the non flared side on a block of wood so the tubing is straight up and down. The vices just snugs the tube. I recall using the rounded end of a ball peen hammer to help the shaping (pretty close match to the flaring tool)........I then tapped the flat side of the peen hammer to get the angles. I did several methods depending on location.

If the transom tube is a goner.....figure on replacing all.

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Repair Articles:
https://www.whalercentral.com/infusio...ticles.php

"PVC Drain Tubes" by Guts

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Thanks for responses.

Joe- I've seen that page. But - no offense to the author - it doesn't really answer the questions I had about PVC. It just references a BW part, but doesn't discuss installation. And the part appears to be for newer boats; the exterior dimension looks too big for my 86 hull.

I was more interested in suggestions and details about successful uses of either Schedule 40 PVC or the 200 PSI Thin wall stuff, and what type of adhesive/epoxy was used to secure it. I read binkie's solution http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...ad_id=7375, which seems the most straightforward. But he received a lot of pushback and disagreement.

I don't want to stir up some ageless debate. But the 200 psi thin wall (nominal 3/4") PVC is more or less the same ID/OD as the brass. The existing plugs should fit. It's a bit flexible, so it will conform to the curved shape of the drain channel. Shouldn't I be able to cut an appropriate length, then bond it in place? Either with or without a flange? A flange would reinforce the end where the plugs fit and offer more surface area for bonding to the hull. I would secure it to the pipe with PVC adhesive, and then bond the whole assembly to the hull. It might look janky - and certainly not as clean as the brass. But I'm really only worried about functionality and ease of installation.

I'd love opinions on whether that would/should work. And if so, what product should I use to bond it? 3M 4200? 5200? Something else?


gchuba - I think I might be misunderstanding what you did. From reading all of the articles, my impression had been that the only cutting/shaping that needed to be done was to the length of the tube, and to the angle of the cut made on the transom side. I hadn't realized that the shape of the tube itself needed to be manipulated. As the straight tube does not fit all the way through the channel, there is no way for me to make any measurements on the tube itself to indicate where to bend it.

My tube needs to be bent, very slightly. And at least twice - once to get it through to measure the proper length, and then again to make sure the final length tube makes it all the way through.

It sounds like you achieved a slight bend in your tube by holding it in a vice and banging it with a hammer. Did you anneal your tube first?

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In his article he says it is for his Montauk. (3rd sentence)

If you look at his profile, he has a 1981 Montauk basically the same hull as yours.
https://www.whalercentral.com/profile...okup=11789

I have never used PVC myself but some of my newer Whalers had factory PVC tubes.

Good Luck and let us know what works for you.

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I have done quite a bit of pipe fitting. I will first address the plastic. Class 200 and schedule 40 and schedule 80 (thicker walled yet) all have the same outside diameter. They all get brittle with age. The class 200 is so thin walled that I once installed a stick quite a few years ago and the pipe was split. Never saw.I never used it since (used to be a popular choice for the non pressure side of irrigation spray heads). With plastic when you adapt to copper or galvanized pipe you need to do so with the female piece being the rigid pipe and the male piece plastic. The tightening of rigid pipe into a plastic coupling can (and does) split the plastic. I bring this up because your boat plugs are the male piece and to install you tighten. I can guarantee at some point you will split the class 200 if you use it. The thin walled plastic will also brittle up and shatter like glass over time. Schedule 40 would be the thinnest plastic used if I went it that direction.

With my tubing installation I believe I got the alloy from McMaster-Carr. Trying to fit a square cut end, annealed and flanged, onto an angled surface (even slight) did not sit well with me. So I matched the outside angle. I had the original flaring tool set up machined and cut down a bit. The piece that fits inside the tube was a snug and long fit and did not accommodate the subtle (and if I recall two fairly steep) angles that matched the hull. The vice held the pipe straight up and down sitting on a wood block. It allowed me to tap/work the piece from the top creating the flange. Looked like I was trying to punch a hole in the wood block. I never had to bend any of my pipe pieces. When I used the flanging tool sometimes I used some thinner bolts so the head could wobble a little bit on the inside (unfinished) end, sometimes bent the bolts, allowing the to seat flush. One time the entire tube started to turn as I tightened. A real bummer with the 'O' ring and my Lifeseal in place. That's when I played with making it a 2 man job. I played with a method that made sense. I see where some fellows liked using the air impact hammer. I was not set up for that.

I hope this helps your understanding.

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Thanks again

gchuba - you mentioned that you never had to bend any of your tube pieces. I've linked to two photos showing our old tube next to a new, straight tube. The first shows an "s" curve, albeit a subtle one. In the second, the tube is turned 45 degrees and shows a single curve moving left (the ends) to the right (mid-point).

Has anyone had to add compound bends to their drain tubes to get them to fit?

Matt
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KQ_...84ecSCNwIg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1i4S...9EL5iH4i9B

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I don’t think your original drain tubes were bent like that when they went in. My hunch is they corroded away, allowed moisture into the transom, and then were bent under pressure by swelling wood and/or ice.

My suggestion would be to ream out the drain holes with a long bit, to get them back to straight. You might consider sealing with epoxy before re-installing the new tubes.

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JRP - thanks. Your explanation seems very likely.

This has already exceeded my limited appetite (and ability) for below-waterline DIY tasks, but when you say I may want to seal with epoxy - what would I be sealing? The entire interior surface of the channel?

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Thanks for the pictures. It looks like you removed them the way I do (did). I very gently ground the flange on one end and drove the tube intact out the opposite side. Some fellows collapse them. I am in agreement with JRP.......something bent the tubes. Think about it. At the factory Whaler would not have men on the line custom bending tubes.

Is it me .......but it looks like there is a slight angle to the flange on the intact side of your tube.

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I was very careful around the holes in the hull. I was surprised by the thinness of the gel coat. You could just gently use your replacement tube to straighten the hole. Installing, I just used the original method of 'O' ring but loaded with Lifeseal in the cavity and at the joint. I stay away from 5200, 4200 and other adhesives. Removal down the road would destroy the area. I would go with a sealant.

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Do NOT use 4200 or 5200. Sealant only.

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Even for brass tube and o-ring installations? I’ve read 5200 was too permanent, but I thought 4200 was the gold standard for this.

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You should not use any type of adhesive (5200, 4200, et al) when you are trying to seal. I found the "Boatlife LifeSeal" to be a mosty excellent product. Also very cleanable.

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Ideally, yes. But I am not familiar with the design/build of those scuppers, and whether they go through a solid material the entire way, or pass through open voids too. In the latter case, it obviously would not be possible to entirely seal the interior walls.

Btw, I know the purists prefer the copper tubes, but I see nothing wrong with using pvc. That’s how Whaler did it on my 1992 Outrage.

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I'm not disagreeing - this is all new to me, and I have no experience with any particular product.

But there are tons of threads on this site (and the other) where 4200 (mostly) and 5200 are used during brass drain tube installations. Has the consensus changed since these threads were generated? (Most are 10+ years old).


http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...d_id=12701 post 7
http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...rowstart=0 post 1 and others
http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...d_id=10880 post 5, 6
http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...ad_id=1649 post 6

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Nothing has changed, I imagine many of those posts somebody here chimed in saying to use a sealant or something less perm. I have seen both 3m products remove gelcoat when removing an item, can you imagine doing that with a drain tube?

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It's all so confusing - according to 3M, the 4200 FC is an adhesive and a sealant.

3M™ Marine Adhesive Sealant Fast Cure 4200FC is a one-component, medium-strength, moisture-curing, gap-filling polyurethane that delivers strong, flexible bonds to aluminum, wood, gelcoat and fiberglass. It forms watertight, weather-resistant seals above and below the waterline. In addition, its flexibility allows for dissipation of stress caused by shock, vibration, swelling or shrinking.

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It is weaker than 5200 and definition is probably on target but it is still an adhesive. Like they said something like lifecaulk is all you need not to mention much cheaper. FC or fast cure is also not as strong as non fast cure. It is probably OK but why bother. 5200 would be a permanent drain tube if used unless you have a small jackhammer to remove it with.