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I just noticed this announcement:

"Mercury Marine proudly announces the release of the all-new 75-115 FourStrokes. This new outboard platform is naturally aspirated, featuring multi-port fuel injection (EFI), and displacing an impressive 2.1 liters in all in-line 4-cylinder configuration. Despite its large, 2.1L displacement, it is still extremely compact and light, making it extremely versatile in single or twin engine applications for 12'-24'. These new models are versatile enough to ensure top performance and efficiency from the lightest technical flats skiffs to the heavier saltwater offshore hulls and pontoons."

It is evidently a brand new block, and the engines look similar to the recent, highly popular Mercury 150 EFi 4-stroke. From the photo I saw, they are really nice looking and compact in profile. 2.1 liters is a lot of displacement for these HP levels, up form the previous 1.7 liters.

Weight is shown to only be 359#. They are indicating that at this weight, the 115's are the lightest 115's on the market, and even lighter than the 375# 115 E-tec and Optimax 2-strokes. they are 8 valve, SOHC.

The 115's are also available in counter rotation.

These engines should be showing up on the Whaler 170 Montauks soon. These engines are a full 40# lighter than the previous models, which many thought were too heavy. They are only a "battery weight" heavier than the Evinrude 90 2-stroke, and have 33% more displacement.

It is encouraging to see the new engine platforms continuously coming out of Fond du Lac. We can clearly compete with, and outperform, the Japanese brands when this country puts it's resources to it.
Mercury remains #1 in worldwide outboard sales, followed by Yamaha. The others are a distant 3rd 4th and 5th.

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I saw that announcement yesterday as well - the 90 was long overdue in my opinion - I'm glad to see it slimmed down. The 115 being the same weight makes it quite attractive and its great to see it offered in a counter rotating model.

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This is good news for members who are considering re-powering and are conscious of weight requirements.

More choices are good!

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How does this displacement compare to the earlier Mercury 90 4-stroke? Presumably a displacement gain by using an unsleeved block?

The elimination of the bulky and heavy iron sleeve is one of the most interesting innovations - it will be interesting as we see it trickle down to the lower HP applications where the displacement vs. weight gains will be even more pronounced.

Tim

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My Yamaha 4.2 L blocks don't have sleeves either, and there are already a LOT of them building hours with no problems related to this lack of iron so far. I bet this technology will soon be industry wide.

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Question:

Are these new motors built in China or in the USA?

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Tedious: The current Merc 75-115 4-strokes use the overbuilt L-4 Verado block, which is 1.7 liters, and can produce up to 200 HP supercharged. So the new platform has a larger displacement block, which seems to be the trend with both Mercury and Yamaha for the naturally aspirated 4-strokes. A 90 horse engine with 2 liters displacement should be a powerhouse!

As to where they are built I have no information at all. But since the current 75-115's are built in Fond du Lac, I would think the new platform would be also. There has not been any news or indication of Mercury clsoing operations in WI and shipping jobs to China. conversely, I keep hearing that Mercury is expanding in Fond du Lac.

Only the 4-stroke 40-60's are ASSEMBLED in China, but those powerheads and most parts come from here, I believe.

Since Boston Whaler will most likely be one of the first Brunswick companies to start installing these new engines, such as the 90 on the 170 Montauks, they may be able to show us some early performance indications. I'll bet that 90 is going to put out at least 100 HP!

I found a picture of the new engines here:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-f...tform.html

Are these new lighter weight 4-strokes, now by both Mercury and the Japanese, eventually going to cause the end of the conventional 2-stroke 90's and 115's?

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Any quote on ballpark figure prices?

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Interesting and should have plenty of torque but still overweight for a 75/90 since the Suzuki is 341lbs and the E-TEC 321lbs but will compete well in the 115 range.

Crazy that there is over 100 lbs spread between 60hp and 75hp, they really should have done a lighter block between the 60 and 115, but at least it's not 400 lbs any more.

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The way I see it, 21# over the weight of a 3 cylinder DFI Evinrude 2-stroke for the 4 cylinder Suzuki, or 39# for the 4 cylinder Mercury 90, is literally insignificant. Out the door pricing is definitely more important to many, for example. Other factors in boat loading, such as battery placement, type of prop (SS vs Alum), water in hull, cooler loading and placement, jackplate use, etc. can all be more significant than a measly extra 39# of engine weight. Two stroke oil under the cowl offsets the crankcase oil in a 4-stroke. Even an old Montauk hull can easily handle this weight.

At the 115 HP level, it's the lightest weight 115 you can now buy, even though it's a 4-stroke, and weighs the same as Mercury's previous 4 cylinder 2 + 2 conventional 2-strokes.

A pair of these could be nice offshore power for a classic 22, either notched transom or Whaler Drive version.

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Just re-powered my 2004 Boston Whaler Dauntless 160 with one of the new Mercury 115 four stroke in late May 2014. When I first ordered the motor well over a month ago, my local dealer didn't know anything about a new version. A week later, they told me the motors were out of stock and I was going to get the latest model as soon as they could get there hands on one. In short, I was lucky to get a new model and would have been very disappointed if I had re-powered with last year's heavier model, especially on a smaller boat like my 160.

Sold my 2004 90 hp two stroke for $1,800 cash and kept my Trophy Plus stainless four blade propeller for use on the new motor My local dealer applied the $825 rebate on the spot, which taken together helped bring the overall cost down. I wouldn't say the decision was easy, given the expense, but after considering trading in my Whaler for several possible new boats, realized I really loved my Dauntless and simply wanted a four stroke with a little more power. I considered buying a new Dauntless 170, but couldn't rationalize the insane price.

Took the boat out on Mobile Bay on Saturday morning, before the rain hit. Conditions were okay but not great, with a good southeasterly breeze and a light to moderate chop. In summary, we felt like we were driving a completely new boat. The boat jumped out of the hole, much quicker than my old 90hp, and I didn't even try to check the top speed, given the conditions. Pulled my son and one of his pals on a tube and they went airborne a couple of times. The motor was incredibly quiet, which pleased my wife, and sounded a bit like a BMW motorcycle (a tight purr) when operating at high speed.

The dealer mounted the motor second hole from the top. Not a whole lot of trim range in the above conditions, especially when the chop moved from light to moderate, before experiencing some porpoising. Will probably need to experiment with the height of the motor, based on comments from other folks on this website.

The bottom line: My whaler is a keeper - the boat looks almost new - and the new engine has reignited my enthusiasm. Sure, I probably wouldn't get my money back if I tried to sell the package, but I have no intention of selling and expect to wear out myself before the boat and motor are done. I'll provide some updates over the Summer as I gain more experience with the new set-up.

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Paddlepicker - sounds awesome - post up some pictures for us to see!!

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Who is your dealer? I'm here in Mobile.

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Hey, fellas - I'm out of town and won't be able to post any photos for a week or two.
I re-powered at Tracker Marine, Spanish Fort. They're backed up with lots of service work but did a great job installing the new 115.

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Still would like to see those photos. In answer to Seahorse's question, a Merc dealer definitely confirmed to me these engines, like the Verado block based predecessors, are 100% made in Fond du Lac.

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As requested, I've uploaded some photos of the 2014 Mercury 115 four stroke on my Boston Whaler Dauntless 160 to a personal page. This is the first time, so I'm not sure how you folks will be able to find the page!

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You need to make the page active. After that we will see a link below your handle.

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Gotcha - did that already.
The website said someone has to review the personal page before it will become active.
I just uploaded one of the photos as my avatar, to get around the delay.

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OK - You are good. The engine looks real nice. I am sure you will enjoy it!

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Since my last post, I've taken my Dauntless 160 out on Mobile Bay, Weeks Bay, Magnolia River and Fish River numerous time. The new Mercury 115 4-stroke continues to impress. With practice, I've found it easy to find the optimum trim position under a wide range of conditions. Acceleration out of the hole and at various speeds has been terrific. The trophy plus four blade stainless prop is performing very well. The boat seems to like to cruise along crisply at about 4,500 rpm but flat out flies at 5,500 rpm, moving as fast as I care to go in a small boat. I still haven't pushed it to run at full speed, in part because I'm breaking the engine in and in part because I'm a prudent boater. I've pulled numerous sturdy teenagers on a large tube with no problems (solo or a pair). The boat simply jumps out of the hole with no apparent effort, perhaps due to the larger displacement and lighter weight in the new model. I know many boaters, including some of my friends, remain fans of two strokes, but this 115 is a vast improvement over my old Mercury 90 two stroke in every aspect of performance. At this point, I would not hesitate to recommend this motor to anyone looking to re-power with a 115. I'll continue to provide updates if I have any other useful observations.

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I realize this is a stale thread, but I'm curious if anyone has any additional feedback/updates about these new 2.1L Mercury 4-strokes, especially the 90 HP version being used on the latest Montauk 170s?

They sure sound like an improvement over the previous generation of 1.7L engines. They've been out for about a year now, so maybe there is more experience, or even hearsay, to report.

Also, does anybody know if Whaler has updated or will update the performance stats for the Montauk 170 to reflect the new engine? It's not clear to me whether the following Performance Data is with the old engine or the new 2.1L?

http://www.bostonwhaler.com/boat_graphics/electronic_brochure/Company94/_54_9262014100236AM.pdf

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Not sure if my images uploaded to my personal page, But I just put a new 2.1 L mercury 4 stroke 90, with smartcraft gauge & new controls on my 17 Montauk. Don't know about performance on it , since I haven't got to use it yet with it still being cold & snowy here in MD. But I will post back with performance probably in a few weeks. But if anyone would like to discuss my setup & prices paid feel free to contact me.

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12fish,

Wow that looks sharp! Will be interested to hear your reports after using it some.

What did you have on your Montauk 17 previously? Did you consider the Command Thrust version, or possibly even the 115 since it is the same weight?

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My dealer said the command thrust would be used in a heavier boat & didn't recommend it for a 17' Montauk, not that it couldn't be used, its just not needed & I wouldnt see no added benefit in that gearcase. the command thrust adds about another 3-400 bucks in case your wondering. As for my previous motor I had an old 92' Yamaha 90 2 stroke which still ran good. But I figured it was on borrowed time & while it still had decent value to it I sold it & used that money toward a new one. As for the 115hp, yes I did consider it, but for the extra few mph's & another $8-900 bucks, I just didn't think it was feasible.

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Thanks for the great info/insight. Your reasoning on the standard 90 v. CT or 115 makes good sense.

Would you be willing to share a ballpark figure for the re-power? I ask because I'm actively looking for a Montauk 170 but would also consider a 17, so a good boat needing re-power might be an option in the future.

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Roughly 9k, with new controls & smartcraft SC-1000 installed.

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JRP - Here's a place in TN that sells Mercs reasonably priced, and ships out of state with no sales tax.
They show the 90 4-stroke as $7225. I have no affiliation whatsoever, other than having been a customer.
http://www.jacosmarine.com/mercuryeng.../index.cfm

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Thanks for that link, Finnegan.

Any feedback about these new 2.1L engines now that they've been out for a year or so?

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Ok, so here it goes. I just finally got to test the 2.1 l mercury 90 on my 1992 17' Montauk & what a world of difference. I Wasnt really paying attention too much the mph in all the midrange rpm's. Let me start off by saying the top speed on my old Yamaha 90 2 stroke was about 36 mph & with a light load about 37-38mph. The new motor topped out at 46.2 mph at 5350 rpms on my gps with me , the wife & about 10 gal of fuel .At that speed it starts to chine walk side to side pretty bad to the point of scary. The motor should push a few more rpms than 5350, but that's all I could get out of it. Also at midrange its very smooth in all the rpms but in the high 20's to low 30's it tends to porpoise quite a bit till you get the trim set just right. then its smooth sailing. My dealer said I would probably need a motor height adjustment, and a prop change to dial it in & get the rpms. Not really sure I want or need the x-tra rpms. The hole shot was also quite superior to the old 2 stroke. Im not sure what the hp difference is between the old Yamaha 90 & the Merc 90, but to gain 8-9mph top end on the new motor im guessing its more than 90 hp to the prop! So, with the right prop & motor height adjusting, & right amount of trim im sure 48-50 mph is not out of the question. Needless to say you will not be catching me going that fast very often in my 17' whaler. Just no need for it really...but the power is there! If anybody has any questions feel free to ask.

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Thanks 12fish!

As you get more experience/hours on the engine, please keep the reports coming. Comparisons of fuel burn would also be interesting to know.

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That is very interesting information to see the power of the new Mercury 2.1 liter 90 HP EFI 4-stroke. Forty six MPH is in the speed realm of most 115's on a Montauk. The much smaller cube E-tec 90, often a popular repower choice for Montauks, only runs around 40 MPH on the boat, and only weighs 39 lb less. So it's clearly a strong engine and worthy of consideration. It could very well be the most powerful 90 on the market today, and the pricing seems highly competitive.

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I had convinced myself to repower my 1961 Nauset with the new 90hp Mercury. I was really impressed with the larger displacement and the torque band inherit from the additional size. But when I contacted the local Whaler dealer, MarineMax, they didn't seem very interested in putting much effort into finding a motor for me. They didn't have one in stock at any of their chain of stores and they said that the Mercury warehouse didn't have one either. So sorry, move along.

So I contacted a large dealer north of Houston who mainly sold ski boats. They had a 90hp but were outrageous (no pun intended) in what they wanted for installation and accessories, pushing the final price w/o TTL to nearly $12K!

I contacted another independent dealer and he said he could order one, he recommended going with the command thrust, could get it in three or four days and three or four days for installation, but a much better price than the ski boat store.

My Whaler was going to be in the local Keels and Wheels concours show in two weeks. I thought that if anything went wrong with the ordering process or installation problems, my Whaler wouldn't be ready for Keels and Wheels.

So long story short, I called a local Evinrude dealer who has been in business for 60 years. He had a 90hp E-TEC in stock and had it on my Whaler in three days. We're still fine tuning the appropriate prop, but I am hitting about 40 mph WOT, but turning 6100 RPM. I need to be at 5400 for the E-TEC so still trying different props.

All that to say, Mercury lost one potential customer on a flashy old Nauset, that people really take notice of. It could have been really good exposure for them, but it didn't seem to matter.

But the Evinrude guys sure were proud of hanging their motor on a classic, cut me a special deal and everything.
Today I love the look of that white engine and the sound of a two stroke.

Screw Mercury.

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Spuds - I agree that a modern 2015 Mercury 4-stroke would not look good on your beautiful, classic boat show quality, 1961 Whaler Nauset. That is a mighty fine boat you own, and 1961 was the introductory year of the center console and the nauset model. Very nice.

If I had your boat, it would have one of these 275lb 1962 in-line 6 Merc 1000's on it (about 90 HP at the prop)! They cost about $7K, completely re-manufactured, from this guy, as shown.

http://classicmercuryoutboards.com/homes.com/home

Many people, particularly those at these classic shows, like to see the classic outboards on these old Boston Whalers.

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12fish74, that motor looks great on your boat! I just picked up a 2003 170 and am looking to put that same motor on. I have a few questions if you don't mind. Are the controls drive by wire or are they cables? Did you have it installed or did you rig it yourself. If you did rig it, was it very hard? Also, locally here in Massachusetts I just got a price rigged for : With MA 6.25% tax, and factoring in labor at 1725, we come to a total of $14,294.38!!! I was also looking at Bass Pro shops as they were much cheaper. Question is would you pay for rigging or rig it yourself? I am amazed at the pricing from that dealer Jaco's Marine and are they really selling a new 2015 Mercury 90 for $7500?
Sorry for so many questions, but 14K-1.7K in labor means the motor and controls are 12,569 or almost 5K!!!! More from the dealer I went to!!

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The Jaco's price is correct and Ed's Marine Superstore in Richmond VA advertises similar pricing. That seems to be about the going rate for these engines. I have recieved quotes locally to install the Merc 115 CT on my Outrage for about $10K all in (engine, rigging, installation.) So that price you are being quoted is ridiculous. I would expect a 150 for that price.

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Thank you for the feedback. I knew it was high, but I didn't know it was that high. I will keep looking or just wait for the boat show here in February and get an extended warranty. I still can't believe a $4294 premium from the 10K you have been quoted.

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Just as an FYI the Dealer in VA will not ship the motor, and they state they would have to install it in VA. That would cost me a lot more....:(

I am going to keep looking locally, and try to find just a reasonable price on the motor. I would like to know if the throttle is drive by wire as that would take away a huge issue in the re-wrigging. I would also like to know if I can use my 2003 Mercury Steering or if I have to replace that as well. Maybe that is why I am seeing 11-14K pricing for a 90HP.

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270 whaler, they are cables as far as I know, its not the digital if that's what you are implying. I didn't do any of the rigging myself. And that price you were quoted seems way high! Total price out the door was $9300, that included prop, smartcraft gauge, fluids, and they even moved my battery to the center console, & new steering cable, im almost positive you can use your old one, but someone else can chime in if im wrong. The only reason I got rid of the old steering cable is because the guy that bought my old motor wanted it. Chesapeake Whalertowne here in Md did all the work & the service there is top notch. Im not sure if they ship motors either but you could call then and ask. Good luck!!

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Thank you for the information. I am still calling around and getting prices of 11K with prop. If anyone knows a place that is reasonable in the Massachusetts area that will do this for $9,300 let me know as I will go there immediately. I will not be rigging it myself as I found out that Mercury will not warranty the motor if it is not installed by a dealer.

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I like Green's Marine in Hooksett, NH but they are probably too far for you.

Mercury does have incentives until October 31 so you might be able to get close to $9300.

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Thank you for the information. To save a few thousand I am willing to tow it around...Thanks again as I will call in a few weeks and get pricing mentioning this forum.

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Apparently Mercury has introduced a suped-up version of the 115 FourStroke. The new model is called the "115 Pro XS FourStroke". It is available in standard and Command Thrust gear cases. Here is some info about it released today at the Miami boatshow:



Quoted from here: http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/2016/02...outboards/

You can also see the engine on Mercury Marine's website:

https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/e...ourstroke/

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I am still trying to find out whether the displacement gain on the 90 was created by going to an unsleeved block - does anyone know?

I also wonder where this trend of having motors with the same nominal horsepower and quite different actual horsepower is going to go. Is someone eventually going to be able to get a 9.9 that actually pushes out 40, so they can ski on lakes where there's a 10-horse limit? I predict the party is going to end when someone has an accident and successfully sues the manufacturer for putting out a motor whose actual power is significantly higher than the nameplate power.

Tim

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I don't know whether the block is sleeved or not. Mercury collaborated with BMW in the design/enginering of this engine, so I expect it is well done regardless.

As for the power output, manufacturers are permitted a 10% variance in HP output from the nominal used for naming the model. So I don't think they are in any legal jeopardy there.

The reference to increased torque is more interesting to me. By re-mapping fuel delivery and timing, it's possible to increase the torque at a given rpm and/or widen the peak torque band of the engine without affecting the max HP rating. So this version of the 115 engine could offer a wider/deeper powerband than the other two that have been offered.

Incidentally, there are now three versions of the 115 CT. There is the "Fourstroke", the "SeaPro", and now this "ProXS Fourstroke". Studying the spec sheets for each of these variants, the only significant difference I notice is the peak horsepower rpm range: SeaPro, 5000-5500 rpm; FourStroke, 5000-6000 rpm; ProXS, 5300-6300 rpm.

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I am interested to see your note on BMW - as far as I know, BMW was a pioneer in the development of unsleeved motors for cars (Chevy Vega notwithstanding) so I am thinking that makes it more likely it's an unsleeved block. Someone earlier in the thread seemed to think I was critical of a motor being unsleeved, and it's exactly the opposite. I am tickled to see the technology make it down to smaller motors, as the weight savings is even more important there.

Your writeup on torque is one of the few accurate reflections on the subject I have seen. Most people don't get that torque is just horsepower occurring at a particular RPM (T = HP * 5252 /RPM ) - they talk about motors making more torque, while the horsepower remains the same, which isn't actually possible. It's all in the shape of the curve!

Tim

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All the comments on lawsuits are pretty much baseless. When a new outboard motor is sold it will invariable comply with the 10% rule.

Throughout the history of engines buyers have always found ways to improve the engine performance. If one adds performance enhancements to an engine and the platform in/on which the engine is installed is involved in an accident is the owner liable for the resulting damage because the engine performance has been enhanced? I won't say definitely no but I challenge our members to cite a single example where such was the case.

As to the discussion of a basic Mercury outboard outputing various different outputs at different price points one need look no farther than the different ECUs installed in the different engines. BTW, Mercury does not make it easy to obtain a ECU different from the original for their engines.

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I'm really impressed by this Merc 2.1L Fourstroke platform. in the 115 HP versions, the power-to-weight for a fourstroke is impressive. I was wishing that some variant of this motor with a CT gearcase might work as a repower candidate for my 19 Outrage II. But with input from a number of more experienced operators (among them Finnegan), I reluctantly concluded that it won't be quite enough.

Even this latest higher-end 115 XSPro version is still probably insufficient. It would likely be okay for solo excursions, but not for the full boat I usually run.

There is a big HP, displacement, and weight gap between these engines at 115 HP and 2.1L, and Mercury's next-larger 150 HP Fourstroke at 3.0L (the weight spread is around 100 lbs.) Too bad Merc wouldn't bridge that gap with a 135+HP modern fourstroke engine in the 2.5L displacement range that still weighs in under 400 lbs. I'd hang one on my transom in a heartbeat.

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All,
I wanted to thank everyone for the help last fall. I did finally re-power my 2003 170 Montauk with a new (Better looking design from the fridge version) model non-command thrust Mercury 90 4 Stroke HP for less than 9K from Bass Pro Shops. They were the best and did a great job on mounting it and putting the new controls and gauges which were toast. I did not go with the digital controls, but don't need them on this boat in my mind like I have on my 270 Outrage...Seemed like overkill. That being said I now need to choose a prop for the boat. Does anyone have this package with the new 90 and a good prop that they like? Any ideas or other places I could find a good recommendation?

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I would strongly recommend Mercury's brand new Spitfire X7 4 bladed SS prop. It's supposed to be their best performing mid-range propeller and should work very well on a Montauk 170 with the new 90 HP Merc. You can find information on it at mercurymarine.com.

For the best pricing ($389 shipped) , check out jacosmarine.com.

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Finnegan,
Thank you for the advice and that price is awesome. Any idea on the size and pitch? Any recommendations?