Whaler Central - Boston Whaler Boat Information and Photos

Posted by gchuba on 02/08/14 - 7:30 AM

I am asking for information and clarification. I have a 1979 22 foot Revenge. My boat had the original 235hp Johnson with a rebuilt power head. The smoke and noise bothered both my wife and myself. I ultimately bought a "parts boat" for the 2009 200hp HO E-tec and am switching the motor and other goodies over to my craft. However, along the way, I had a chance for a similar deal, but the boat was powered with a 250hp E-tec. The posted rating for my hull is 240hp. I consulted with my boat mechanic and he wanted no part of the switch (actually refuses to work on any boat with an "overpower") and my insurance agent told me it is a lot of extra work and probably more expensive to insure. I contacted Boston Whaler and they said a 240hp rating is a 240hp rating. The boat is currently registered for "livery" and I plan on doing future small charters and whale watching. I am setting up my boat to specs for Coast Guard approval (even though in California my boat falls into a weird category "not required to be inspected commercial").

Are "overpowered" boats legal? I heard a rumor that with an accident on the water an overpowered boat is at fault (I do not give that rumor a lot of credence but do not know)? What is the relationship between the original ratings of "motor hp" vs "propeller hp". I look down the road at potential litigation (heaven forbid) and I know that some lawyer would pick up on any discrepancies with factory recommendations no matter how obscure or irrelevant.

It would have been nice to get the larger 250hp motor (I am extremely happy with what I ended up with) but not at long range implications. I am a "factory spec" type guy within reason. Is it written somewhere that hp ratings up to "x" year translate to legal cross overs to current "y" year. I know I could have pushed through for the larger motor (but may have lost the mechanic) but the extra hp did not seem worth the effort or potential liability. I am married to my current set up but would just like to know. The knowledge you fellows know about rpm's to hp to this/that etc... knocks my socks off.

gchuba

Posted by kamie on 02/08/14 - 11:46 AM

The search function is a wonderful thing, but here are some thoughts.

There is no federal law that makes it illegal to power a boat above the rated HP. With that said, you would need to check your state laws, as some states make it a violation.

You need to be honest with your insurance company regarding the boat and the engine HP. They may in fact require you to pay a premium on your insurance but you should not misrepresent the boat or the engine. If they insure your boat, then they are liable for paying valid claims.

Many marine shops will not hang an outboard that would overpower a hull. Usually this is due to insurance reasons, so they don't get sued if someone takes your boat and kills someone. I don't know anyone that won't work an an engine. The shop I use would not have rigged my hull, but they have no problem working on the engine as required.

With all that said, in the event of an accident, a lawyer will go after whatever they can find so I am extra careful on the water and limit the number of people I trust behind the console of my whaler.

Posted by R Davis on 02/08/14 - 2:13 PM

rwethereyet wrote:
Why take a chance....? All it takes is any accident or any event (anything unforeseen or beyond anyone's control).....bring a lawyer into the mix and all bet's are off....! Even if your in the right, once a lawyer gets involved expect aggravation, loss of time, and money lost......guaranteed...!

BALONEY ! You don't know what you're talking about. Liability coverage will take care of the legal issues. Folks have accidents every day and their insurer takes the heat, provides defense, and pays legitimate claims. That's what liability insurance is for. Guaranteed!

As a retired insurance claim executive, I 've grown weary of all the comments from the peanut gallery regarding a subject of which they are totally ignorant.

Posted by Tom W Clark on 02/08/14 - 7:49 PM

As noted above, there is no federal law against overpowering. There are (it is said) a few states that outlaw the practice, but I have never seen a list of them. Washington is not among them.

Lawsuits happen all the time for all sorts of reasons. It is nonsense to think that if a boat is overpowered, its owner will necessarily be liable. Moronic statements like that are made by folks with no knowledge of how our judicial system works. There is nothing black and white in the law.

In any hypothetical lawsuit revolving around an overpowered boat (and I have NEVER heard of such an actual case) I guarantee you your behavior prior to, and during, the accident will have far more bearing on the case then your boat.

Posted by gchuba on 02/08/14 - 8:32 PM

Kamie, that is my point. I did not purchase the 250hp because it exceeded the posted (and now mathematical) rating for my boat. I think we all agree that litigation is a current fact of life, but anything we can do to lessen the fuel beforehand only makes life easier. That is why we have insurance. I just know I would feel bad inside if a motor judgement call some how made life more difficult for all around me. I believe my boat was rated 240hp in an era where the hp ratings were based on motor displacement, is that still true? Are not the current hp ratings based on the propeller or is it still the block displacement? Some E-tecs share the same block with different hp. I actually contacted them to see if I could reprogram the block to change the hp but EPA guidelines do not allow them. At the time it really bothered me to pass on the first motor over 10hp but I ended up with a better deal anyway.
gchuba

Posted by rwethereyet on 02/08/14 - 9:56 PM

[quote]Tom W Clark wrote:

Lawsuits happen all the time for all sorts of reasons. It is nonsense to think that if a boat is overpowered, its owner will necessarily be liable. Moronic statements like that are made by folks with no knowledge of how our judicial system works. There is nothing black and white in the law.

Tell that to a predatory attorney....They make a living ruining someone else's life....they make a living by manipulating the arena around what is black and white. Hopefully, insurance would cover such a claim. Unfortunately, Insurance has evolved into legalized organized crime. Insurance companies are in business to collect premiums, not dole it out. Understand the laws of your state, the fine print of your insurance, and follow the boat manufacturer's ratings. Don't take chances......

Posted by Phil T on 02/09/14 - 8:57 AM

#10

If you were to exceed the listed horsepower by 50, 75 or even a 100 hp, it would be significant and worthy of conversation. 10 hp will not significantly increase your WOT speed.

As has been said, find a different agent and a new mech.

Finnegan, a respected member here and over "there", is an insurance agent and has serviced members. Drop him a note.

Edited by Tom W Clark on 02/09/14 - 9:07 AM

Posted by gchuba on 02/09/14 - 9:47 AM

#11

Phil T, I went "round and round" on the website trying to get an email or contact for Finnegan (I did get to Larry Goltz's photo library). How might I contact him. My boat is on dry dock and I have to check when my premium runs out.
Garris

[ Moderator's note: To find a member's email address, simply click on the member's name and that will take you to their profile which includes their email address ]

Edited by Tom W Clark on 02/09/14 - 10:00 AM

Posted by Tom W Clark on 02/09/14 - 10:02 AM

#12

Tell that to a predatory attorney....They make a living ruining someone else's life....they make a living by manipulating the arena around what is black and white. Hopefully, insurance would cover such a claim. Unfortunately, Insurance has evolved into legalized organized crime. Insurance companies are in business to collect premiums, not dole it out. Understand the laws of your state, the fine print of your insurance, and follow the boat manufacturer's ratings. Don't take chances...

I'm not a lawyer but have been close enough to know that lawyers will use anything they can to influence jury or create "reasonable doubt".

Lawer: “the captain was reckless, see he overpowered his boat" if that earned any points with the average jury then it's a valid argument.

Very typical comments on this subject and rather ignorant.

Posted by kamie on 02/09/14 - 3:52 PM

#13

I believe that Larry is retired from insurance, but his son is my insurance agent. Send me an email and i'll give you and email and an office phone#

My comment on lawyers was more related to the folks I let pilot my boat than the fact the boat is over powered. Because of the engine, I limit the number of people I will allow to take the wheel, and only those who's piloting skills I trust.

I have over powered my 18 Outrage by 25hp and would have dropped an extra 50hp on it, but I was limited on upfront funding. If you have been honest with your insurance company then there will be no problem in the event of an accident.

Posted by gchuba on 02/09/14 - 4:49 PM

#14

Kamie, I agree. I was completely up front with my insurance company I am part of an "Insurance Trust" and have been with the same outfit for 20 plus years. People get kicked out who are not responsible. I am a licensed contractor and my commercial general liability and vehicles are part of my coverage. I receive a rebate check based on profit and loss each year (not much, nice play money). I ran all the information past them and my annual rate which includes total comprehension, collision, and liability with the trailer and $18,500 for boat replacement (plus a list of other stuff) $470 for the year. They said they could get coverage for the "overpowering" but, between them shopping for an underwriter, my mechanic advising not to overpower, and Lockemanns (plus posts I read on this site) saying the 200hp HO E-tec a nice match for the hull. No big deal to pass on the larger motor. I did not personally think that 10 extra hp would make that much of a difference when shopping. I went with my gut feeling when I passed. I was interested in how a motor hp rating 35 years old applied to today's engineering and if "overpowering" is a common practice.
Garris

Edited by gchuba on 02/09/14 - 5:25 PM

Posted by Finnegan on 02/12/14 - 10:35 PM

#19

Just realizing I have been mentioned in this discussion, let me see if I can add some meaningful content. We do insure many Whalers, and many are overpowered to varying degrees. Four of my own five Whalers have higher HP than the mfg recommendations.

First it is correct to say that some insurance companies simply will not take an overpowered boat. Overpowering basically translates to higher top end speed, and that is the primary concern. Speed kills as they say.

However, there are are excellent companies out there that will insure an overpowered boat, usually with a percentage surcharge in the premium based on the percentage of overpowering. If you have such a policy, you need not worry, as the claims exec mentioned above. I do not recommend mis-representation of your HP.

I do believe that excess HP could be a liability issue in a high speed accident situation. This is why premiums are surcharged. As we all know, high speed in a Whaler can result in hull instability, chine walking, possible loss of control and just plain reckless operation. Overpowering I'm sure could be an issue, but if you are fully disclosed, your insurance company owns it, not you. Along these lines, if you operate at high speeds, I recommend you not only buy the $500,000 limit, but also purchase an Umbrella blanket liability policy. And remember, you are not only at risk from a collision or swimmer, but from passengers in your own boat injured or ejected from your boat due to top end speed.