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I am not sure I agree with the methodology here in determining a boats model. I thought we could have a debate and decide when a boat changes models, if ever. Some people here believe that changing the seat on a Montauk, changes that boat from a Montauk to a Custom. I don't agree with that. If I change the seats in a late model Ford Mustang, does it become a Ford Custom? What if I add a poling platform, forward chair and additional rod holders to a Montauk, does it also become a Custom? In my opinion, the boat model and year should stay the same as when originally manufactured, regardless of what owners do to modify them.

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BW uses the same hulls for several different models of Whalers. The 17' Montauk uses the same hull as the Newport, Eastport etc and the only distinction is the different interior layouts. If you were to change out the RPS to pedistal seating in a Montauk, it would essentially change the configuration whereas it's no longer a complete Montauk which makes it a custom.

If you were to strip down an '85 mustang LX and change the distinct items that make it a LX, is it still a LX?? Technically yes however it's been customized so though the badging says LX, it's really not an LX any longer.

Same goes for the various models of BWs.

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I think for a forum like this, it is important to keep the classics defined as the original model name. It educates owners on how the boat came out of the factory. To some that is important in determining value.
That said, I have a custom that I made to fit my needs.

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I think some people are kind of rigid on this subject due to the fact that so many people use the site for a resource. As new whaler owners look for every ounce of information they can get on their new boats. I do tend to agree that a simple rps to leaning post conversion would not change the Montauk designation in my mind. I will say for the sake of argument that the designation did have more to do with the interior components than the hull, so changing components would in effect change the designation. I have a miss matched 1979 15 footer with a much newer super sport interior, Is it a super sport as they were not made in 1979? I have a low pro conversion that would be considered by some a bastard whaler with all the changes. I am pretty proud of both.

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In the days when Boston Whaler published a pocket size book of specifications and options, if you ordered a bare hull Montauk......it was still a Montauk.....

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Keven,

If you have any problems with that then I would suggest contacting Boston Whaler directly.
If you are blaming this site, then you seem to be blaming the wrong group of people.
Boston Whaler designed it this way for the older Classic models giving them choices of different interiors which also changed the name of the model.

If you took a Nauset and add a factory stern seat, then it becomes an Eastport model.

If you took a Nauset and replaced the pilot bench seat with an RPS and added a forward platform it became a Sakonnet model.

This was intentional back in those days and gave the appearance of different models built on the exact same hull.

For our use here, we follow Boston Whalers method and then have to go one step further with a "Custom" model due to the fact that many people completely remove the interior and replace it with aftermarket parts.
Another reason for a Custom model designation is once the boat interior is no longer original or recognized, no one can tell what model it used to be. So, if I show you a photo of this boat below and tell people it is a Montauk, then everyone will think all Montauks look like this.
http://www.whalercentral.com/images/p...le-1-1.jpg

The above link is NOT a Montauk model.
Can anyone tell me what model the Whaler is in the above link?
No they can't and that is why we have to use a the term of Custom model just like with Cars, Airplanes, etc....
Cars are different as an interior change you wouldn't probably notice unless you looked inside the car. But here is one for you. If you took a Corvette and pulled the body off and put a VW body on that Corvette frame, what would the car look like as it drove by you? It would look like a VW, however in reality it wouldn't be a VW or a Corvette, it would be a Custom car......

Some people seem to be afraid of the term Custom, where I would think they should be proud on how they setup their boat to suit them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a customized or Custom model.
We just have to call them what they are.

This basically doesn't happen with the newer models as only one model is generally built on that same size hull.
Example: Montauk 170, Super Sport 170, Outrage 190..... Even though someone may change the seat, it is still the same model because it can't be any other model...

Hope this helps clarify this problem for you.

Last word for you Customizers and Custom model owners..... Some people will love your boat and others won't like it as much.
It's just the way it is with Cars, Boats, and anything else.... Whatever suits your needs, go for it and please post photos in an outside album or create a personal page so we can all see your Custom model.
Take a look through the personal pages at all the Custom models and see what others have done.

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moretrench,

No, it was called a "Bare Hull".
Take a look at the older catalogs and the older price lists.

You can still order some Bare Hulls today and customize them the way you want.

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Great discussion! Chuck Bennett at BW can usually tell you from the stencil number what Model your hull was the day it left the factory. In many cases, if your stencil number is gone then your hull could have been any of the models built on that particular hull.

Lets play the reverse of this and say we have a 1975 16' 7" Smirkless hull and it has the correct RPS and CC then it is a Montauk. You could also change the furniture and make it some other models. You can also buy a 1969 Cuda that came from the factory with a 6 cylinder engine. Do a few changes and drop a hemi in it and it will never be a Hemi Cuda!

Be happy that BW gave us some options to make them anything we want! We can also add things to a Montauk and as long as we leave the original furniture they remain Montauks. Back in 1974 when my Montauk was made you could spend a small fortune on Period Correct optional equipment such as Forward fishing platforms and forward fishing seats as well as rear platforms with seats with live-wells. I have never seen a classic with every available BW option but I am sure there are a few that have or had them all either from the factory or dealer installed.

I do not find the term custom when used here at WC to be offensive in any way and it just tells us some changes have been made from the original layout.

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Maybe this price list for a Bare Hull in 1977 will help.

Bare Hull came standard with:
Bow Eye
Bow Norman Pin
Drain Plug
Heavy Duty Rub Rail Kit
Mahogany Bow Locker Cover
Ski Eye
Stainless Steel Side Rails

That's it... Nothing more, Nothing less.....

At he bottom of the photo below, Note this:
"The bare hull 17' offers customization of interiors."
If you take a bare hull and add an interior, according to Boston Whaler, you are customizing it. It is no longer a bare hull if you added seats, console, or something similar. It becomes a customized or Custom model.

The same goes for other models.
A Montauk includes certain factory items and so listed in the price list and configuration. If those items are no longer in the boat, then who knows what model it is or was? Thus it has been customized or now a Custom model.

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Chevy 1500... The frame and drivetrain are the same on most models. You could have a pickup, a tahoe, an avalanche, a suburban... If you originally had a 1500 avalanche and the body rotted out on it, found a suburban body and put it on the frame what would you have. The serial number might say you have an avalanche but u better make sure you change that on your reg in cas eyou get pulled over by a cop. He's gonna see you are driving a suburban.

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I am not taking offense to anyone or anything. I guess there are just two different trains of thought. If I took the previously mentioned 1993 Mustang GT, and added all the Cobra body parts and accessories....it would still never be a Cobra. Or If you made an exact copy of a Shelby Cobra with the Factory Five kit....its not a Shelby Cobra. To me, he mere fact that Chuck can look at our stencil number and determine what model boat it is should indicate exactly that...what model boat it is. A customized Montauk should be a customized Montauk...not a Eastport. Same with cars....the VIN will tell you what it really is, not what it is hiding behind. When does a customization turn a Montauk into a custom? What if you keep the same layout and change certain wood items to starboard?

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I think the difference between cars and boats is cars (customized or altered to be close to something else) become Clones and boats become custom.

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With the stencil number Chuck can look up your hull and tell you how it left the factory, not what it currently is. My 13 footer left the factory as a sport model in 1971, when I finish the gelcoat and the new interior what will it be? that all depends on what what interior I use, if I put the standard sport interior, it will be a sport, if I do a modified dual console interior it will be a custom 13 footer. If I install a Super Sport interior will it be a Super Sport, nope, it will still be a custom 13 footer because there was no Boston Whaler Super Sport in 1971, that model didn't exist until 1984. The nice thing about Whalers was that you could customize them, with or without rails, with or without seats or rps or leaning post. It's really why people love Whalers because you could make the boat uniquely your own.

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Well, we can continue splitting hairs here but this site has a way of doing things and we have to go along with that.

I will say it another way and possibly a way you can understand it. The hull is the same on a number of different models. Only the interior furniture gets changed and that is what determines the model name. A Montauk gets a Center Console and RPS seat while other models may have a side console and fixed chairs. As Joe mentioned, you can buy a bare hull and all the furniture to make it any model you want. The hull becomes customized when ever you mix and match furnishings or change a console from an original BW one to some other brand or style. Likewise if you change the RPS from a Montauk and install two swivel chairs then you have customized a Montauk. You can call it what ever you like but here at WC we will always call a non stock boat a custom.

I do wish I was more knowledgeable about the models and on this computer as I would show a picture of 3 or 4 different models side by side and all built on the exact same hull but with different furniture and layouts.

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There is 3 different Shelby AC Cobras in this general area and all are Replicas. I love all of them and they sure do turn heads but when it comes right down to the numbers they are millions away from the real deal and likely to be better driver cars.

I love the fact that we can buy an old 16' 7 hull that has absolutely nothing left in or on it and set out to make it in to any of the models that hull came in.

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I guess that was along the lines of my thoughts. My Nauset has been a Nauset for 50 years. If I were to add a rear seat, which I am thinking about doing. To me it's still a Nauset... modified to an Eastport.

It just seems that if the original model is known, then that designation should stay with the hull. Example:
1967 Nauset - Customized (Fiberglass Console and RPS added)

A couple more examples: say someone took the cap off a 1978 19 Outrage Banana Hull. Is it now really a Lo-Profile Model, which are fairly rare and hard to come by.

Or if someone took the cap off a 1974 19 Outrage Banana Hull. Is it now really a Lo-Profile Model, if they weren't made till 1977? (We do have a 1973 Lo-Pro listed in the owners list)

To me, these would be 19 Outrages, modified to a Lo-Pro.

IMHO keep their born-on name, if known.

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The debate as to a particular model versus a custom tag is an exercise in semantics.
I believe you should be buying the design of a hull which can perform to satisfy your boating needs. What happens inside the hull is a matter of personal choice. After all, look at 20 Montauks and they'll all be rigged differently.
Regardless if Whaler marketed their 17 as a bare hull, Stripper or Montaulk, the decision to purchase should be about the hull's performance in the water,

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Rigging and dissplacment of furniture are two different things. I'm keeping to myself about my oppinion and going with the forum and Boston Whaler as they say fits.

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He cannot tell you what model it IS
He can only tell you what model it WAS when it left the factory.

It is what it is, not what it was...

So, in following what Boston Whaler started with customizing the different hulls into different models, here is our bottom line which we will follow until the end of time.
If we can no longer recognize what model the boat is, due to removing the original interior and replacing it with unknown or non Whaler parts, the model then is a customized or "Custom" model.

A Customized model is a Custom model no matter how anyone else wants to look at it.
Look at the attachment below and the first smaller photo within the large photo. This is directly from a Boston Whaler catalog.
Here, Boston Whaler says, "Three example of custom rigs designed and built by the customer."

From the posts here, it looks like almost everyone is agreeing with Boston Whaler.
End of story and thanks for bringing this up.

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Spuds,
Then you would be wrong according to Boston Whaler information that they have posted for many years in their catalogs and price lists.

See the attachment below on what makes an Eastport.
You would then have an Eastport model.

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I am adding more info to this thread on a Sakonnet 16 model in case others here still are having problems determining what they have.

First and Foremost, the interior of a Boston Whaler hull in those days determined which model it was when it left the factory.
If it left the factory as a Bare Hull, then that's exactly what it was. No model, just a Bare Hull.
You could customize it anyway you wanted.

You can't really compare a Whaler to cars because cars generally have a body change for models, not interiors like Whalers.
A Ford is a Ford, A Chevy is a Chevy, and a Whaler is a Whaler. That is a brand.
So, for Whalers, if the interior is changed, so is the model according to Boston Whaler catalogs as shown above and many other places here and in the Boston Whaler catalogs.
Again, the interior tells us what model it is and most of us can tell just by looking at it, what model it is now.

If you start removing parts of the original interior, as described by Boston Whaler, then you are customizing the interior and the model.
If you add a factory style stern seat to a Nauset, then it would become an Eastport as shown in a link above.
If you remove most all interior parts and add aftermarket parts, then it would become a Custom model as shown in a link above.

This all comes directly from the Boston Whaler catalogs. Not this site.
If I look at any Whaler and can't tell what model it is, then it comes under the "Custom" model name.
There is nothing wrong with a Custom model and Boston Whaler even mentions customizing models in the link I already gave above.
Many people Customize their Whaler to suit their needs. Look at all the Custom models in our personal page section.

What model is this?
http://www.whalercentral.com/infusion...r_id=15487
Doesn't matter what it left the factory as or what model it was. What model is it now?
It is a very nice Custom model that this member made to suit his needs.
There are many other members that do the same thing using aftermarket parts to suit their needs.
I don't think there is one Whaler part left inside that boat that I can see. Doesn't really matter though, does it? As it is a Custom model.

Below is Boston Whalers description of a Sakonnet 16 which includes all Bare Hull equipment plus:
(see attachment from the BW catalog)

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Hi Joe,
I had a 1967 boat with the forward platform,console,wooden rps seat and rear "park bench seat"like a Eastport.What model is it?

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Excellent question Tom.

If they were all original Boston Whaler parts, then:
That is called the "Full Monty". :-)

Actually it would most likely be a Sakonnet 16 with the optional stern seat.
Optional interior options were basically, RPS, Stern Seat, Bow Platform.
Those options basically determined the model.

All of us know the standard configurations below as described by Boston Whaler:
1. Nauset = wood console, wood bench pilot seat
2. Eastport = wood console, wood bench pilot seat, wood stern seat
3. Sakonnet = wood console, wood reversible pilot seat, wood bow platform

Here are some other possible Gray areas.
wood console, optional RPS = Nauset with optional RPS
wood console, wood stern seat, optional RPS = Eastport with optional RPS
As you mention above = Sakonnet with optional stern seat

Here is one that can be confusing if you just look at the boat.
What model is this? http://www.whalercentral.com/images/S...et_rps.jpg
wood console, RPS, no bow platform = ?
Some people automatically think it is a Sakonnet.
Some, like myself, think it is a Nauset with the optional RPS like I mentioned above.
With this one, you would need to look further to see if this hull has screw holes where the platform was removed.
It can't really be 2 models at once. Can it?
1. Nauset with the optional RPS
2. Sakonnet with the bow platform removed
Both of the above boats would look identical.
However, if it never had a front platform, then it most likely is #1.

So we need to go back and look at what the standard configuration is according to Boston Whaler.
Boston Whaler can only tell us what the model was when it left the factory.
Boston Whaler cannot tell us what the model is now which could be entirely different, as mentioned and shown above, in the "Custom" configurations.

In my mind, I go by Boston Whalers standard configuration when looking at a boat.
It is what it is now.
#1 Nauset, #2 Eastport, #3 Sakonnet
And those models should have the standard configuration with the possible options as mentioned above.

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When you change something on the boat to fit your needs outside of the Whaler catalog. That is my opinion.

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I agree with you Jerry if it's a major change to the shape of the interior and changes to the furniture of the hull. I saw a 13' going down the road today that had a casting deck fiberglass to the bow. It looked nothing like the sport it once was. Therefore it is now a custom. But I also want to add another example. My own 15' custom "Striper". Although I used as much OEM parts as I could and have it pretty darn close, Boston Whaler did not make a Striper in 1996. So calling it that would be misleading from a reference standpoint.

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I hope I selected the correct subject for my question.
First by the rules , I just purchased a 1975, 16 ft Whaler and I do not know the model for sure.
It has a 70hp Evenrude and yes I know the spelling is not correct. This boat is MINT condition and has been garaged all its life and I got it from the original owner estate. This boat has a bass fishing pedestal seat on the front , center console with bench seat . From what Ive read it's a bass fishing model. I did not know Whaler made a bass fishing boat ? Joe, where can I find the Whaler invoice that shows the accessories etc. like the example you printed on your post.
Thanks for any help and take it easy on me if I left out something obvious since I'm new Chuck

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Chuck,

Yes, Boston Whaler made many models including the "Bass Boat" model.
http://www.whalercentral.com/userphot...lbum_id=30

Not sure that is what you have or not without seeing any of your photos. Do you have any photos?
You can also view Bass Boat models in the members personal page section but there aren't many of these models around.
http://www.whalercentral.com/viewpage...page_id=65

Take a look at the other 16' models and see if any look similar to yours?
http://www.whalercentral.com/userphot...allery.php

Joke:
Now why would you want us to take it easy on you?

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I have had documentation showing the Options for several of my prior Whalers. Also shown as Packing Lists possibly.
It stated the model, accessories, etc.
See these "Packing Lists" in our Downloads section:
http://www.whalercentral.com/download...p?cat_id=5

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Based on the information you have provided, Joe, I would have to state that the 15 footer I purchased last week is a highly specialized custom. A previous owner removed the interior and fitted it with a one piece superstructure consisting of aluminum gunnel and interior braces attached to an overhead canopy that locate a centralized welded aluminum console. Even the stern lifting eyes were removed. I suspect they ran nets with sideboards and used the Whaler for shrimping, crayfish harvesting, or crabbing. I am undecided as to what I will do with it as yet other than install my old Mercury 504 motor on it. Whatever I do, it is nice to have a Whaler again.

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Here is other documentation from Whaler about what makes which model I had been looking for..

NOTE:
PARTS - SPECIFY MODEL

See the attachment below.
To find out which parts belong to which model, look in the catalogs or in the previous discussions in this thread on page one.

Again, if you remove the original parts and replace them with aftermarket parts, you then have a "Custom" model.

If you change or add any genuine Boston Whaler parts, then it is possible you could change the model.
Like Spuds has done from a Nauset to an Eastport.

This is directly from Boston Whaler and we follow what they have documented.

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I bought a 1989 Montauk about 19 years ago, I'm the second owner with all original paperwork. At the time it was all original but I've made some updates / changes over time but not sure what pushes it into "custom" land, seems subjective. I appreciate those of you who keep everything "original" but I don't believe that's what we're talking about our what delineates between what's custom or not but tell me if I'm wrong.

I don't really care, I'll change my profile to "custom" if recommended but I'll always consider it a Montauk and I've never had anyone ask me "what kind of BW is that", it's a Montauk but I'll be the first to admit it's a "tricked out Montauk for sure.

NOT looking for an argument but what options / upgrades / changes push it over the line?

Replaced the metal fuel tanks with 12 gallon tempo's?
Added 6 hp kicker?
Replaced standard cooler with Yeti 105 Qt?
Replaced stern light with perko light on the console?
Added 9 rail mount rod holders plus one on the port transom?
Added Mills Bimini?
Raised RPS height using block method?
Added storage rack under RPS for plano boxes?
Added bow mounted electric motor?
Moved battery to the console?
Added custom swim platform?
Turned a 54 qt cooler into a bait bait well that sits on a platform on top of the transom sump area?
Non factory electronics?

I think that's it...

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WOW. Really?
Boston Whaler puts out the guidelines as I have shown many times above..
Too bad you are having problems after reading all of the above.
Sometimes I wonder why I even bother trying to show any information on this site.

If you have no clue on what a Custom Model is, please search the internet as it seems I can't help you here on this site.
I have given everyone all the information that Boston Whaler describes as their models.
Pretty simple in my mind what Whaler describes as a certain model and what it is.

Good luck in your search.

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Point well taken Joe..
Let us see what intrinsic point of view may develop from this stance.
After all;
We have very little choice in the fact that we are living in some of the most uncertain times of late..
Whaler background and history should be what the site is all about.
Please feel free to rant all you want
As I will be keen to hear of your views.
In the fact that we do all have a personal understanding about the Whaler name.

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Very frustrating sometimes ritzy.

2 pages of information here on what makes models different as they all have the same basic hull.

I remember when some people thought all Whalers that were ever made were called Montauks.
That would make it easy.

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I guess when I complete decking my 1969 13', and leaving a 24" cockpit w/ center console, it would be considered "custom"? (read sarcasm)

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Obviously I've crossed the line but if changing a fuel tank or adding a cup holder makes the boat a custom then pretty much every older boat here is custom.

Sorry this is such a sore subject for you, good day Sir.

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Now where did you read that?
I don't see that anywhere here.

Only removing the interior that came with that particular model and replacing it with aftermarket console and seat(s) etc. changes the model.
The catalogs tell us exactly what different consoles and seats etc., came in the different models.

Everyone should be able to figure out what this model is by reading this post.
What is this model?
http://www.whalercentral.com/images/p...edited.jpg
Answer = ?

Here is a hint for everyone.
Whaler never made a console or seat like that.
Doesn't look like any model Whaler ever made.

If anyone mis names their boat model here, (usually by accident) it will be corrected.
If a member doesn't know what model they have, then ask and also look at our Whaler Models and Specifications section.
http://www.whalercentral.com/userphot...allery.php

Here's something else for everyone to figure out if they are interested.
What is the difference between these 3 models of Outrage 21' within the same year?
Outrage I
Outrage II
Outrage III
http://www.whalercentral.com/userphot...lbum_id=11

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Joe K: Great question about the numeraled models of the Outrage 21. Please share the answer. In addition, it appears that BW was building two different hulls during the latter years of the original Outrage 21 run. It could be that people misidentify the actual year of their Outrage.

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I would like to add more confusion but not to ruffle any feathers for sure.

I just purchased a 1971 13' and contacted Boston Whaler to get the history. It was listed as a "Sourpuss/Sport/Special" when it left the factory. Now take a look at the below pic:

http://s751.photobucket.com/user/e_di...7.jpg.html

It certainly looks like a Sport, so why not just label it a Sport? What makes it a Special? Is it the side rails or lighting?

Thoughts?

Thanks
Ed

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Ed,

You answered your own question.

That is definitely a Sport model in your photo link.
It also has the optional Side Rails for the Sport model.
Whether it has optional side rails or not, it is still a Sport model.
The optional side rails will only fit a Sport model.

The rails for a Sourpuss are completely different and would also include cushions and seat backrest. Yours is NOT a Sourpuss model.

Regardless of what model this might have been when it left the factory, it is a Sport model now with optional Sport side rails.

I can't understand how Whaler could have told you this was 3 models in one.
Sourpuss/Sport/Special
That would be like a Corvette/Impala/Camaro

They list 3 models in 1971 in the catalog.
1. Standard 13' (tiller model)
2. Sport 13' (console and wheel steering)
3. Trophy 13' (stick steering)

(not in the 1971 catalog but shows up later is the first production run of the "Sourpuss" model. Sourpuss wrap around side rail system included. Bow rail optional as was the Sport model.
http://www.whalercentral.com/userphot...lbum_id=18

I also gave you more information on why you do NOT have a Sourpuss model in your other thread.
http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...ost_128404

Below are the prices for the 3 models shown in the 1971 catalog.

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Reel Easy,
There is a member above that posted about changing the seat in a Montauk and how it wouldn't change the model.
Well, it's a good thing he didn't say that was a fact for all models.

There are 2 models I know of that change their designation if the Pilot Seat is changed with original seats.
1. Cohasset 16'
A. Cohasset I has a single captains chair
B. Cohasset II has the Reversible Pilots Seat
http://www.whalercentral.com/userphot...lbum_id=31

2. Outrage 21' (early banana hulls)
A. Outrage I has the 2 Place Pilot Seat/cooler
B. Outrage II has the Reversible Pilot Seat
C. Outrage III has No Pilot Seat (plus the console is different)
http://www.whalercentral.com/userphot...lbum_id=11

Everyone,
The experts here and many other members, know exactly what model they are looking at.
It is not subjective nor do we need to guess.
If anyone does not know what model they have, just ask.
We will let you know what model you have now. Whether it is Custom or a model made by Boston Whaler.

Some members in the past get upset if they find out they have a different model then what they think they had.
In fact, they leave and never come back.
One member honestly believed he owned a Fenwick Edition Outrage.
However, he did not and was not happy at all with us once he found out, so he left.
I guess they prefer to live in a fantasy world. Not here.

I even had some members asking me to let him believe he owned a Fenwick Edition. (That is not going to happen on my watch)
When I told those members that wasn't going to happen (pretending to have something they didn't) they also chose not to come back.
Hey, that is NOT my problem.
I would think everyone would want to know what model they were in possession of. Not some fantasy model?

Here at WhalerCentral we believe in reality and what model you have is what model we see according to the facts published by Boston Whaler in all their catalogs and price lists. Regardless of what it was when it left the factory. It is what it is now. Not what it was.

Any other thinkers on what model they actually have?
1969 Montauk = NO SUCH THING
and the list goes on.