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Need to re-power 1997 outrage 20
grahamg
#1 Print Post
Posted on 11/12/17 - 3:53 PM
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the 1997 Evenrude 175 ocean pro on my 1997 outrage' 20 has failed and will run @ $3 grand to repair. given it's age and heavy use to date I have decided to re-power, and am looking for recommendations. The boat has a 200 hp rated capacity, Have been pleased with the 175 but have felt it is likely not been delivering 175 HP for a while. a Evenrude dealer recommended the E 150 Etec. this is not the newer G2 iteration of the etec motor. price is @ 13K for the engine and installation,
how much overall performance will I lose by not going to 175 or even 200 HP.

recommendations are appreciated.

 
Phil T
#2 Print Post
Posted on 11/13/17 - 5:05 AM
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The max hp for your hull is 225hp and minimum is 130hp with a 25 inch shaft.

I, personally, would want to stay within 85% of max hp. Go with a 200hp

While the G2's just came out, there may be dealers who have a 200 G1 in stock. That should save some serious coin as the G2's are even more expensive from G1 due to added features.

If you get a G1 E-TEC, you can keep your throttle and gauges and do a digital upgrade in two or three years to soften the $ hit.

Shop various dealers (think car shopping at its worst). No bad tactics just lack of openness on price breakdown, actual parts described.

Go in person and get detailed quote in writing. Be prepared to drive 100 miles to a dealer to get quote.

Get 3 quotes that list each price for each item individually:

-Trade in value of engine
- Removal old engine/rigging
- Install new engine and rigging
- Binnacle
- harnesses and cables
- each gauge
- prop (has to be stainless)
- sales tax


Edited by Phil T on 11/13/17 - 5:07 AM
1992 Outrage 17, 1992 Evinrude 115
 
Weatherly
#3 Print Post
Posted on 11/13/17 - 7:42 AM
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Did the G-2 just come out? I thought it was launched in June 2016. Is the G-2 more expensive than the E-Tec first generation motor? I readily found pricing of both the Evinrude E-Tec 150 and Evinrude G2 150 varying in price between $13990 and 14,300, not a huge difference in price. Is the E-Tec first generation motor no longer in stock? I thought they are still being manufactured. Why would you need to go in person to get a quote, when Evinrude offers such quotes on-line and individual dealers provide quotes via email attachment, with all costs broken down to itemized parts, etc. and labor for installation, if not free because of promotions. The Evinrude dealer has a 52 line item quote form they generate electronically and the form has a line for each and every cost.

Years ago, a friend repowered his 1989 Outrage 20 boat with an Evinrude 150 hp first generation outboard. He replaced an old, worn out Yamaha 200 hp. While your 1997 Outrage 20 is a different boat, my friend's experience and decision-making was the same; He did not regret putting a E-Tec 150 on his boat. The boat performed great with the new motor.


Edited by Weatherly on 11/13/17 - 7:46 AM
 
Phil T
#4 Print Post
Posted on 11/13/17 - 9:48 AM
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Weatherly -

I have yet to hear many reports of dealers providing detailed quotes with details as a matter of course. Typically it is one price for engine, rigging and install + tax.

Most dealers do not do well returning phone calls.

There are two throttle choices:

Icon II Premium EST
Icon II EST

There are 3 different gauge series.

Touch
3.5.
4.3
7.0

Icon Pro

Icon Basic
3.5
3.0

It would be great to share the 52 line item quote form with members. Can you send a copy?



1992 Outrage 17, 1992 Evinrude 115
 
grahamg
#5 Print Post
Posted on 11/13/17 - 7:52 PM
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the G2 is too new for my comfort zone and there have been an abnormally high number of recalls on the G2 OB. these are located on the evenrude website. I like their transparency and openness about new engine issues. the G2150 was also 2K + over the G1.

I checked with three dealers, the one I am choosing has an outstanding and nearly unblemished reputation, he's been in the boat industry for @ 30 years and owns his own well established shop, he also had a very good price and offered up the full manufacturer incentive which was effective 11-1 for the winter boat show period and is a 7 year warranty extension with a $50 copay for repairs after the first three years. in total that is a 10 year warranty, First three years is no cost warranty and the OB has a three year maintenance free service schedule. the projected value of the extension is $7,500. He also offered up the most competitive pricing

the second dealer offered a new in box E 150 etec that was in stock since 2012. full warranty plus the extension but only to five years not ten. They were doing the 5 year warranty rather than 10 to offset the sale price of the engine and necessary rigging. His price was similar in the end but if comparing apples to apples it would have cost 3,500-4K more for the equivalent set up and 10 year warranty.

the third dealer just wasn't close to the first two.

I did consider going with a 200 which was in stock but the cost was in the $18K range about $5K more than the 150. unfortunately it just wasn't in the budget and I honestly did not want the additional engine weight and operating expense of fuel and oil consumption. I would rather sacrifice some speed for better fuel economy.

As noted in my original post above I am most concerned with the potential negative effect on boat performance with a 150 HP. i.e. planing ability at lower RPMs, hole shot - needing extra trim and extended effort to get on plane. possibly needing to add trim tabs to compensate for lower power. compromised handling in turbulent waters at lower speeds etc.


Edited by grahamg on 11/13/17 - 8:06 PM
 
Finnegan
#6 Print Post
Posted on 11/13/17 - 10:52 PM
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Since you seem to be interested in 2-stroke DFI engines, you might take a serious look at the Mercury ProXS engines.

It seems to me that all of these G2 Evinrudes are badly overpriced from what I can tell, and ugly to boot. 18K for 200 HP is crazy. I see pricing on a Mercury 175 ProXS Optimax, a 200 HP engine at the prop, for 11K. One of these engines will blow the doors off any 150 E-tec you can buy, and for a lot less money.

This operation will ship you an engine for about $300 in shipping, and no sales tax (a significant cost). Or, since you are not too far away from Tennessee, you can drive down there and have them install it for you. Either way you will be thousands of dollars ahead.

http://jacosmarine.com/mercury-engine...e-pricing/

I have no affiliation at all with this dealer, but have bought an engine from them, and several Mercury SS props. This post is not about Evinrude vs Mercury, but simply about dollars, cents and HP at the prop.

 
tedious
#7 Print Post
Posted on 11/14/17 - 3:53 AM
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Finnegan, is the ProXS the new name for the old Optimax technology? Mercury's naming conventions confuse me.

 
Phil T
#8 Print Post
Posted on 11/14/17 - 4:50 AM
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Now that we have dispensed with the brand, lets focus on 150 vs. 200 hp. You have already acknowledged the lower WOT speed with less hp.

Do you cruise in a pond? Great Lake? River or the Atlantic?

Please describe your typical outing (75% of the time) with details on water type, conditions, distance traveled, passenger counts, fuel load, gear on the boat and brought for the trip. Do you tow a tube or skier?

What is the most extreme (5%) trip?



1992 Outrage 17, 1992 Evinrude 115
 
alan heckmamleper
#9 Print Post
Posted on 11/14/17 - 4:54 AM
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My friend has a 1999 Outrage 21 with a 200 hp Yamaha 2 stroke on it and judging from the performance of his boat I don't think I would be happy with a 150 hp motor on it. He has also considered a 150 hp motor for a re power and I've tried to talk him out of it. It just doesn't seem like enough power for that hull to me.


 
Phil T
#10 Print Post
Posted on 11/14/17 - 4:55 AM
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Alan - Get your friend to register and join the conversation.


1992 Outrage 17, 1992 Evinrude 115
 
alan heckmamleper
#11 Print Post
Posted on 11/14/17 - 5:30 AM
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I'll try Phil but He is a VERY serious Pennsylvania deer hunter so my chances are pretty slim this time of year.

 
JRP
#12 Print Post
Posted on 11/14/17 - 7:08 AM
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grahamg wrote:
the G2 is too new for my comfort zone and there have been an abnormally high number of recalls on the G2 OB. these are located on the evenrude website. I like their transparency and openness about new engine issues. the G2150 was also 2K + over the G1.

I checked with three dealers, the one I am choosing has an outstanding and nearly unblemished reputation, he's been in the boat industry for @ 30 years and owns his own well established shop, he also had a very good price and offered up the full manufacturer incentive which was effective 11-1 for the winter boat show period and is a 7 year warranty extension with a $50 copay for repairs after the first three years. in total that is a 10 year warranty, First three years is no cost warranty and the OB has a three year maintenance free service schedule. the projected value of the extension is $7,500. He also offered up the most competitive pricing

the second dealer offered a new in box E 150 etec that was in stock since 2012. full warranty plus the extension but only to five years not ten. They were doing the 5 year warranty rather than 10 to offset the sale price of the engine and necessary rigging. His price was similar in the end but if comparing apples to apples it would have cost 3,500-4K more for the equivalent set up and 10 year warranty.

the third dealer just wasn't close to the first two.

I did consider going with a 200 which was in stock but the cost was in the $18K range about $5K more than the 150. unfortunately it just wasn't in the budget and I honestly did not want the additional engine weight and operating expense of fuel and oil consumption. I would rather sacrifice some speed for better fuel economy.

As noted in my original post above I am most concerned with the potential negative effect on boat performance with a 150 HP. i.e. planing ability at lower RPMs, hole shot - needing extra trim and extended effort to get on plane. possibly needing to add trim tabs to compensate for lower power. compromised handling in turbulent waters at lower speeds etc.


A few things to keep in mind:

If you go with the ETEC 150, read the manual carefully. It is not "maintenance free" for the first three years. Variious items require maintenance, with the interval varying depending on salt or fresh water use.

Purchasing an extended warranty -- as a general rule -- is not a good deal for the consumer. They are offered because manufacturers have done the math and know they will make money off them. In other words, overall the warranty will typically cost consumers more than the benefit they receive from it. Of course, on an individual basis you may defy the odds. But purchasing an extended warranty is still betting against the odds.

That calculus changes when the warranty is provided for "free". But even a "free" warranty comes at a cost. In the case of the ETEC, it is more expensive to purchase than some competing products. And with the "free" warranty being offered as a hook, the dealers are probably less likely to negotiate on price.

So study the competing options and get some bids. If you decide that a 150 is adequate for your purposes. then I would suggest you add the Merc 150 Fourstroke to your list of candidates. (But I tend to agree with the consensus that a 150 might not be quite enough.)

 
grahamg
#13 Print Post
Posted on 11/14/17 - 12:53 PM
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well- thank you all for your input. it is much appreciated.

my engine choices/preferences would be Evinrude or Yamaha. I have had both and don't care much for the other brands although I had a 70 hp Nissan on my Nauset for many years with very little trouble. Oh how I miss that little boat and motor. I don't want a 4-stroke so that cuts out the Yamaha and leaves me with the Evinrude. the warranty extension to ten years is the current manufacturer incentive from 11-1-17 through May of 2018. there is no additional cost for the incentive with the one exception that if warranty work is needed at any time over the next ten years there is a 50.00 co pay for the service, which in my book is a small price to pay should any covered work with out the coverage be substantially greater than the co pay.

I did look at the owners manual and while they say the engine is three years maintenance free I will do the lower unit gear oil changes and lube the engine parts at the end of every . I see this as good swardship and a minor investment to ensure engine longevity.

I do bay and inshore fishing usually with 2-3 people on the boat including myself. 40%
I primarily boat on Barnegat bay in New Jersey which on weekends and holidays during peak season June through August is like a washing machine due to the large amount of boat traffic and the shallow nature of the bay. I am i usually in April thorough November, off season the waters are much more favorable and flat.
Occasional cruising with the family or friends that can be three to five on board. 30%
Solo cruises and distance rides by myself and one other 30%
Fuel - I try to keep the tank 3/4 to full (84 gals)
3 gallons of oil in the oil tank
gear would be at best 100 lbs more than what is required by state laws and the coast guard. all kept in console and under gunnels.

 
Weatherly
#14 Print Post
Posted on 11/16/17 - 7:26 AM
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Graham: Since your repower prospect is involved, I suggest you reach out directly to fellow WC member Seahorse. He is perhaps the best person I know that can help walk you through your repower decision points. His email is listed in his Member Profile. Good luck.

 
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