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1994 Outrage 17 - new purchase imminent
Lucas M
#1 Print Post
Posted on 09/14/17 - 4:11 AM
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Hi, new to this board, will most likely be purchasing a 1994 Outrage 17 this weekend after many months of searching for the best boat to suit my needs (easily trailerable, relatively good in chop, instant classic, well built and low maintenance, good resale value). Boat was owned by Environment Canada for many years and owner says it is a more robust version than usual, not sure of the exact details but he indicates in good shape. Hull survey was done, clock shows under 300 hrs and motor is 2000 90hp Mercury 4-stroke with about 100 hrs according to owner, and just had a full tune-up and carb adjustment. The only issue that is causing some hesitation is that owner indicates he has installed an auxiliary tank because he noticed some water mixing in with fuel from the main tank. He had the whole tank emptied and cleaned as part of the maintenance and only noticed the issue when he took boat out on water. I understand that water can run into tank cavity and he is saying it is probably getting in by one of the hoses or the vent. He figures it is a $400 fix to change some connections. There is no smell of fuel when boat is parked or moving. I have a hard time understanding how water can get into an inlet fuel hose or fuel line without any fuel leaking out when filling or running. Not sure if water can get into fuel vent while under way. I have read that changing tank and lines is quite expensive and do not buy in to the $400 fix necessarily, for now I am thinking that easy option would be to put under seat tank and new fuel line, would be a less expensive fix and not take up too much space. I do not want to let this deter me from buying the boat, i am just confused about how water can get into fuel. If there are any thoughts on the situation, your feedback would be greatly appreciated. As well, if there are any particular items I should inspect it would be great to hear from you.

Thanks, Lucas

 
Phil T
#2 Print Post
Posted on 09/14/17 - 5:06 AM
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Lucas -

I owned a 1991 model for 7 years and now own a 1992.

Water in the fuel in not unheard of for several possible reasons:

- Ethanol blended fuel underwent phase-separation.
- Hole/degraded fuel fill or supply hose below deck
- Broken clamp in fuel line connection
- Hole in the aluminum under deck tank

Any of these are fixable.

The first 3 are DIY'able. We have Outrage 17 owners who can walk you through the steps.

If the main tank has a hole, it can be replaced. Note it is a bit expensive. ~$1000 USD.

Given this issue and that it was a CPD (Boston Whaler's commercial/government division is called Commercial Products Division) boat, a ballpark value of the boat is 5-7K USD assuming it has a trailer and the hull is in good shape.

I ran an external tank for a year. I installed a 6 gallon in place of the livewell and t'ed into the water separator.

You can run a 12-22 gallon tank under the RPS and run the fuel line up to the console and down the rigging tunnel under the floor.

Here are photos of the tank with the cover removed from my project album. The tank cavity is open to the bilge and can get water in. http://www.whalercentral.com/userphot...lbum_id=45


Edited by Phil T on 09/14/17 - 5:13 AM
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT
 
Lucas M
#3 Print Post
Posted on 09/14/17 - 5:38 AM
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Hi Phil, thanks for the feedback. Agreed purchase price is right in line with what you indicate. If that is the only issue I find then I am inclined to pull the trigger and go ahead with the purchase as there is an alternate fix in using an above-board fuel tank if the issue really lies in the buried tank. Would be a bummer to have a huge expense right off the bat. When I inspect I will have him pull the access cover to see if there is any visible loose clamp. Looking forward to my first ride!

 
gchuba
#4 Print Post
Posted on 09/14/17 - 7:01 AM
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I had the fuel smell in my 1979 22' Revenge. I do not believe you will see a loose clamp. I had hose degradation. In fact the split in the hose was directly under the fill hose right at the edge of the tightened clamp. I would just figure on hose replacement if I was buying the boat.

Phil (or others).....would this be considered a red dot series with thicker gel coat?

 
Lucas M
#5 Print Post
Posted on 09/14/17 - 7:09 AM
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I don't see a red dot on the boat in the photo but photos not that clear, but the boat came painted red from the factory. Does it impact the value negatively being a commercial boat? It has (3) seats by the motor plus a swivel seat ahead of the console and the usual console seat.

Is there any storage on this boat besides console and bow?

 
JRP
#6 Print Post
Posted on 09/14/17 - 8:35 AM
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Based on your description of the history of this boat, and the current owner's representations, I think you can reasonably assume it is a "red dot" commercia-grade hull. Several things come to mind:

1) A red-dot hull is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact some value it highly. The hull is built heavier/stronger which generally is good for longevity. But there are potential downsides. Many of these boats were purchased for commercial purposes initially, so often have lived a hard life.

2)Because they are over-built, they are heavier for towing/trailering purposes. Make sure your vehicle can handle the extra weight. And they also require max HP engines for good performance.

3) This boat has an older 90 HP 4-stroke engine. Max rating is 115. I suspect this boat will feel significantly underpowered. Budget for an engine upgrade down the road.

4) I do not suggest buying this boat if your long-termplan is to ignore the fuel/tank problem and just use an on-deck portable tank. That really negates many of the advantages of going with this model over say something like a Montauk 17. You lose deck space and storage, and yet you are still hauling around all the weight of the old tank and rigging.

Plan to get this tank issue fixed properly and budget for a tank replacement (if it turns out to be just hoses -- all the better.) In the opinion of many prospective purchasers, a boat with an internal tank that has not been kept up is a sign of a boat that has been neglected. That is what you will face if you ever try to sell this boat down the road with an on-deck portable tank. Use this as a negotiating point now and don't just let the current owner pass the buck to you.

 
Lucas M
#7 Print Post
Posted on 09/14/17 - 9:09 AM
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Thanks, great advice. We are limited in our marina to 18ft boat and as long as we are living in our current location, we would not have plans to sell the boat. Will mainly use it for fishing and pulling kids on skis, probably 50 or so hours a season. But I agree, I would want to get the repair done as there is around 20gallons of fuel sitting in the tank which at this point is still most likely usable assuming repair is only hoses. My wife also does not like the idea of exterior canisters so we would have to make the change. We get a lot of chop here (St Lawrence river) so the extra weight might actually help (like on the days the kids want to ski but my back is saying no). Will probably stop at a weigh station to check weight, hopefully under 3500.

 
Phil T
#8 Print Post
Posted on 09/14/17 - 9:34 AM
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Take a look at my personal page for reference.

I know 2-3 Outrage 17 owners who ran deck tanks. Not a biggie. I know 4 owners who did DIY replacements of their under-deck tanks. It is a bit easier than other boats due to smaller size and deck cover.

With clean bottom paint and rigged appropriately, you can expect to get 36-39 at WOT with a 90. With a 115hp WOT is 43-46.

The CPD boats are only 200-300 lbs more assuming a G19 console and the metal leaning post.

You are definitely under 3500 lbs with trailer.

20gallons of fuel sitting in the tank which at this point is still most likely usable


I would not assume this. How old is the fuel? Blended (10% ethanol) or straight unleaded? Has it be treated with a stabilizer?




1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT
 
Lucas M
#9 Print Post
Posted on 09/14/17 - 10:12 AM
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Agree, my comment concerning fuel was not very smart, given the problem is water - owner says there is a fuel separator but nevertheless when I do repair I will have tank drained. Fuel was just put in two weeks ago or so.

I am really curious now to see this boat in person, my Pilot should pull it either way, just like to keep some reserve when towing given no brakes.

thanks for all the feedback

 
JRP
#10 Print Post
Posted on 09/14/17 - 11:29 AM
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Lucas M wrote:...my Pilot should pull it either way, just like to keep some reserve when towing given no brakes...


I would agree that a Pilot can tow this boat, ASSUMING you have the AWD version with the optional tow package. Also, Honda calls for brakes on any trailer over 1K lbs, which would include this boat.

 
EJO
#11 Print Post
Posted on 09/14/17 - 12:46 PM
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gchuba wrote:
I had the fuel smell in my 1979 22' Revenge. I do not believe you will see a loose clamp. I had hose degradation. In fact the split in the hose was directly under the fill hose right at the edge of the tightened clamp. I would just figure on hose replacement if I was buying the boat.


Hose degradation sample due to ethanol. For the OP this was OEM equipment on my Whaler and caused hesitation and no WOT
New better quality hoses was a inexpensive DIY fix. I cut these open to show what happens inside the fuel line.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/cTbPiXRuHT9...uHT9FOmyx2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/PZQIeZuXiKb...XiKbtgpuz1

Good luck this weekend


Skipper E-J
m/v "Clumsy Cleat" a 2008 Montauk 150
 
Lucas M
#12 Print Post
Posted on 09/16/17 - 10:37 AM
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Well unfortunately it did not work out, I found the hull was in rough shape and beyond what I wanted to invest in fixing up. Probably a good deal for someone who has knowledge of hull patching and finishing. Thus the search continues...still set on a Whaler, really liked that Outrage design but will broaden range to Montauk as well since Outrage are rarer.

 
Phil T
#13 Print Post
Posted on 09/16/17 - 10:46 AM
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Lucas,

Given there are so few of this model, I am curious as to her condition. Were there any photos or a listing you can share online or privately.

Thanks


1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT
 
Lucas M
#14 Print Post
Posted on 09/16/17 - 12:41 PM
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Sure here is the link, but the photos did not show the hull very well. Had negotiated the price down but not enough to my liking given the ultimate condition. I had the weekend before seen a 1990 centre console (different brand) and the hull appeared super clean with no patches or nicks, and thus am using this as my comparison for other boats. In this Outrage, bottom spine of the hull (not sure if correct term) also had a metal strip bolted on front to back for beaching I would guess and based on marks all around there was a lot of that done during its life. Inside of boat was clean but also a bit rough around but I had no issues with it, for me it was all about the hull condition (which were all patched roughly). Did not see a red dot or WB in the serial number so it might just have been a regular model custom ordered. My friend who came with me and has over 20 yrs experience fixing boats told me price had to come down more for him to buy it and fix it. And for him, labor is free so it influenced my decision.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-bateau/levis/bateau-boston-whaler-1997-17pieds/1286896877?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 
Phil T
#15 Print Post
Posted on 09/16/17 - 4:18 PM
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That is definitely a Guardian 17. The rails and steering wheel are the giveaway.

The stainless steel strip (cut water) is an option.

Is the hull painted or is that gelcoated? Gelcoat colors are an option.

Most government boats are used hard and put away dripping wet. Almost all require a fair amount of work to get back to recreational shape.

Thanks for sharing.






1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT
 
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