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I'm looking for some help on re organizing the accessories and light wiring on my 17 Montauk. The engine/ignition power is at least in a neat bundle...I am trying to avoid that for now. The remaining wires are a rats nest.
I'd appreciate any examples of a clean installation and info on what the right gauge wire and fuses might be.
A somewhat loaded question. Batteries fore or aft? Single or dual battery....lengths of run.....total accessories to be used (electric downriggers, etc....). Your boat has two wiring systems. The boat harness, which you already mentioned, is completely separate from the other wiring. Do not mess with/splice into it. Accessory wiring has two determining factors, battery in the transom or relocated in the console. Location and length of run will tell you cable size for starting the motor and accessory use. If the battery gets relocated in the console you would need a heavy cable going back to the motor. Keep the battery (and its weight ) at the stern of the boat......a less heavy cable going to the console. Generally the connection for accessories would start at battery then.......circuit breaker (I say Blue Sea surface mount breaker/switch 30amp up to 50amp depending on your final use)........then fuse panel (from the fuse panel I go to Cole Hersee switches) but they also have switch panels with built in circuit breakers. From those switches you run wires to accessories, thickness of wire determined by amp draw and length of run. I would not install electric downriggers or anchor winch through the panel but would wire directly off the battery going to a separate circuit breaker. This is a starting point for you to start designing a system. I am sure you will have questions as you move along. All wire used "tinned" and I use "heat shrink tinned connectors".
I re-wired my brand new 150 Super Sport before I ever took her out on the water. Standard accessory wiring for this boat was a single switch for turning on the running or anchor lights.
I installed this fused switch panel, with six positions. Fuses are nice, because they can be changed so easily, if you rewire. I don't think anybody who maps out what they want ever gets it perfect the first time ... there's always something new to add, or two devices get combined into one, or etc. With breakers, a more expensive change. And these switch panels are offered fused, breakered, or neither. Don't go neither. Every line has its fuse/breaker, to protect all the other lines from wires frying.
Here's a link to the panel I used. They also make them with more or less positions. Several companies offer similar products. I thought these were really nice, and no trouble so far:
Start with your item list, then a map. Imagine which things go next to one another on a switch panel. On this switch panel, switch 2 & 3 are set up for a running/anchor light combo (which you could ignore, but it's really an ingenious little circuit). That means 1, 4, 5, and 6 are open for you to assign.
I think once you have a list and map, you'll know how big a panel to install ... and where that panel will go. THEN you have to think of wiring it ... how you gonna get under there? Can you reach it? I worked on my back, crammed in front of a bench seat in my cold garage, with wire strands, cutoff wire ties, and whatever else I was working with dripping on my face (I wear safety and/or cheater glasses, but still ... those little wire strands, cut off, really suck when they are in your eyes. Make sure you can wire up what you're installing is the lesson.
I added another switch, sort of hidden under my console, as a master for the panel. The panel has on and off lighting, and the master cuts that all off so as not to drain the battery (not that six little LEDs would EVER drain the battery, but now I KNOW they won't.
However, like GChuba said, leave the engine harness wiring alone, the one sort of exception to this is my Tachometer has a send from the engine wiring harness. On the other side of the Tach is a wire for lighting the gauge. This, I messed with. So not really an exception. My Tach, my added GPS speedometer, and my added compass all come on with the same switch, which is the Running Lights switch. With Anchor Light alone, they do not. Would one ever need the compass while at anchor? Your question to answer.
Finally, I have a suggestion for just about everybody. My boat came with a 12 volt cigarette lighter style power jack (which is not to be used for said lighter). I kept this, but moved it on my console and then placed in its former location a dual USB charging receptacle, same size, from Blue Seas. My phone, my camera, my handheld VHS radio, and my bluetooth speaker all charge from this USB charging port.
Finally, it is the back of the panel and all of the wiring you do that will make or break this project. I looked at pictures of professional boat and other wiring, to see how things should be run, bundled, tied down, etc. Wire gauge and quality matter. How you terminate wires matters. If you're in salt ... it REALLY matters. I have probably 50 wire/cable ties under my console now, on cable tie mounts that are glued and/or screwed wherever. (3M 5200 works, if you rough up the smooth plastic of the mount, and don't pull too hard).
Now, I have to admit, I did not take all of my advice from the last paragraph, and part of this has to do with later modifications. This winter, I am going to rip it all out and re-wire it the absolutely perfect Whaler way. Keeping the hardware, just re-doing the wires. Making my runs neater ... I want to look at things and just KNOW where they're headed, what they're for, and that the guy who built it knew his job. If that happens, any trouble will be dealt with quickly, but more likely, no trouble will happen at all ...
GOOD LUCK and go slowwwwly.
Edited by ClevelandBill on 08/07/17 - 12:07 PM
ClevelandBill Ferry
m/v SHRUG
2015 150 Super Sport 60hp Merc
Bill, a couple of questions about your wiring. Is the switch for turning your panel off/on a circuit breaker switch? If not, probably a good place for the main circuit breaker if you do not have one in line. I mention this because you referred "......every line fused to protect other wires from frying......". The main breaker cuts the positive to the panel which protects the other wires. The individual switch fuses protect the wires from the switch to the accessory. For mooring/navigation lights I use a single 3 position switch. OFF; "A" ON; Both "A+B" ON. The knob on the 3 position Cole Hersee switch has an extended pull that the standard off on switch does not have. I believe that the board panels would have a similar single switch for navigation and mooring. A mooring lamp is a single white overhead light and navigation would be the mooring light plus the red and green navigation lamps. With two switches both would be on for navigation. Mooring would have the red and green switch in the off position.
I have been part of 3 dc wiring fires and have burnt my fingertips many a time (mostly because I am a fool and when I see smoking insulation on a wire I touch it to see if it really is hot......it is.......I am sure I will burn my finger tips again). Boat wiring and fusing is to prevent fires, not just get something to work. Wiring charts readily available for lengths of run with amp usage. The dc fire/heat stops the minute you kill the positive to the crossed lines. Easiest way is to shut off the main breaker. The closer the main breaker to the battery the longer the length of run is protected. The waterproof surface mount Blue Sea breaker/switch costs under $100 @. If I had a rear battery and a semi protected place under the gunnel by the transom.....great spot for a breaker......if your fuse panel is at the helm.......why not another one. That way if the main wire is chaffed in the rigging tunnel it is protected. If you smell burning at the helm you reach down and cut the positive flow. Those wire fires are quick. Not overly complicated but very important. Just a progression with thought.
Battery is in the console
Left Side is: Tach, Rule Bilge Switch
Center: Trim Gauge
Right Side: Depth Gauge, Blue Seas 3 switch.
Off to right is ignition and VHF below.
Edited by Phil T on 08/08/17 - 10:03 AM
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT
GChuba: excellent question. No, the "master" switch is a simple Blue Seas switch which cuts the positive lead for the accessories power from the battery. Battery is under the left end of the bench seat, cable runs under bench seat where it splits aft to the motor, direct to the Mercury controls, and forward under the side console. A better "master" location might be early in that cable: I could mount it under the bench seat.
On that topic:
1) that would mean I'd be breaking the original circuits, which I was trying not to do, but which I will do if it seems important.
2) I would cut ALL power out of the battery with such a switch/breaker?
3) Are there "lockable" breakers, such that I could prevent use of the boat or accessories without inserting a key?
4) In an emergency situation, I could imagine console and electronics all smoking, but motor still working, getting me back to shore. But if I interrupt all battery power ...
5) For protection, BW installed a fuse or breaker (schematic shows fuse, but my memory says breaker) just outside the battery box. So I am protected, just not switchable at the point of protection.
I think I'm okay from a fire perspective ... but functionality?
BTW, my wiring and under-console looks a lot like Phil T's in the photos he shared.
ClevelandBill Ferry
m/v SHRUG
2015 150 Super Sport 60hp Merc
Without schematics in hand explanations of "How I installed" somwhow gets lost to me at times. Generally speaking the motor wire harness comes directly off the battery and the engine has its own main fuse inline. No circuit breaker in that chain of use. The "on" position for the key then goes to the instrument lighting and some functions. Usually a purple wire. My Whaler had a separate switch for the fuel guage senders but I made it part of the key "on" position. I also have electric trim tabs that are tied to the key "on" switch so they automatically raise in the off position (safety feature when loading onto a trailer). There can be other accessories linked to the key switch but........all those accessories are linked with the on position of the key and do not interfere with the harness. With an outboard motor the throttle/transmission handle in the neutral position is the completion of the negative circuit to allow firing. A side note.....my inboard motor of my Penn Yan has no relation to the negative in the throttle/transmission lever (it could if I desired).....my transmission has mechanical linkage off the side of it that completes the starting circuit. Anyway the outboards have built in protection and you should locate the main fuse in the motor for servicing.....carry a spare fuse. My original 1981 235 Johnson had an odd ball fuse in line.
I would just be repeating myself for coming off the battery. From a personal standpoint I prefer fuses and circuit breaker switches over the "push button reset" style. I do have a 4 gang 3 position (on-off-manual on) Blue Sea circuit breaker switch panel but those are for my bilge pumps and I have a 40 amp breaker switch servicing that function. Those are hot wired off my battery and bypass my Blue Sea Dual Battery Plus ACR switch. So....to answer Bill.....
1. I guess so.......I am not understanding "breaking original circuits". All you are doing is adding a main breaker switch.
2. You cut all power to accessories......motor is its own animal
3. I do not know.
4. Motor independent.....by all means cut the service to a smoking panel
5. I am not big on reset button breakers.....personal choice.....on an electric crab pot puller the switch has a reset but there is a circuit breaker between that switch and the battery.
edit: to better answer question "5". No......you are not necessarily protected by fire with a circuit breaker (a circuit breaker acts as a switch) by the battery (s) which you rely on to automatically trigger with problems. Know where it is to manually shut down the power (big reason I do not use reset button breakers). The higher amperage for setting it off protects the wire/cable to accessory panel. The correlation between wire sizes and amp use for accessories to prevent heat. Example: (this is an example of poor wiring but the premise is the same if you have the correct wires that happen to cross) you install a washdown pump but to save work you splice into navigation wires. Navigation wires 18 gauge or there abouts........washdown pump 10 gauge or 8 gauge. You flip on the the washdown pump and the amp draw cooks the small wires. Too far away from a circuit breaker at the battery. Hopefully you fuses or breakers go off but.....that massive amp draw may very well burn/melt set on fire a pinched or flawed area in the wire before the fuse melts, quick like a "jack rabbit". You want to be able to immediately to kill the positive circuit. My 1979 Whaler Revenge has several circuit breakers (anchor winch, bilge pumps, electronics, house/start, 2 more for downriggers) however......I also installed my dual battery switch below the dashboard at the helm. If I smell burning wires or see smoke......battery switch to the off position. With the center consoles an additional switch (Blue Sea makes a flush mount breaker switch) could be installed on the dash or, if too tight and crowded, one installed in the console that you can reach under and flip. Or one by the battery you flip immediately. A nice levered switch that you know where it is.
For anyone owning a boat or purchasing one.......do check out and become familiar with what you have electrically. Going out for the day with the only knowledge that the key starts the boat and the navigation lights work after you flip a switch leaves you in a compromised situation. I am a registered Coast Guards Safety Drill Instructor which allows me to run the required safety drills for commercial fishermen. Once a month requirement. My electrical was installed way before I became an instructor. I do keep a cheat sheet on board identifying where safety equipment is and what it does. I also show passengers the lay out of my boats before I leave port in case I am busy or incapacitated.
