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1989 Revenge 22' drawings/schematics and bilge advice
CrabLeg
#1 Print Post
Posted on 05/24/17 - 4:54 PM
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Hi - I'm wondering if anyone knows of any visual (drawing, schematic, diagram, photo) source for information about the hull layout and bilge location for an 1989 Revenge 22' WT. I'm just diving into tracking down how the bilge pumps are setup (from previous owner) and it seems pretty hard to understand based on written descriptions. I currently have two bilge pumps on the boat, one in the main large bilge in the center of the deck (next to drain plug) and a second located in a small well in starboard side near the transom. This smaller one has a "rule" switch, and can be turned on and off with a switch at the helm. The one in the main large bilge used to be wired directly to one of my batteries (and nothing else) but I have disconnected it because it would switch on every 2 mins or so regardless of water presence, draining the battery. I think once I have a better understanding of how the bilge pumps are supposed to work in the correct locations I can tackle how to reconfigure or rewire them to work in unison. Thanks for any advice you can give!

(fixed typo in year per guideline #1 at the top of this page)


Edited by CrabLeg on 05/24/17 - 7:18 PM
 
jgortva
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Posted on 05/25/17 - 6:18 AM
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CrabLeg,
I am not sure if original schematics will help. There are four ways basically to wire a bilge pump. Directly to the battery with a float switch, to switched power from the battery with no float switch, to switched power to a pump that has a float switch, or to a unit with a float switch with the option have having the pump come on with a switch and also to be powered passively and controlled by the float switch. Your options are to wire both pumps in series to the switch and then both pumps will act the same or to keep your current arrangement which will work just fine if you upgrade the pump wired directly to the battery. By this I mean that in the last few years bilge pump manufacturers have gone away from pumps with built in float switches and are using water sensing technology, that as you say, has the bilge coming on every few minutes for a moment or 2 as it senses if there is any water to pump. The manufacturers say this should not drain your battery, but it does unless you use the boat every couple of days to keep the battery charged. I am a keep it simple type of guy so if it was me, I would keep your switched pump arrangement and look online for Attwood Sahara brand pumps with a built in float switch to replace the pump wired directly to the battery. I have had this arrangements in a few whalers and it works great.

 
gchuba
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Posted on 05/25/17 - 6:24 AM
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I have a 1979 22' Revenge and I believe we both have the smirked hull. Variations in the cabin and transom. I installed three bilge pumps. I do not understand the "center of the deck bilge" comment. You may be referring to the fish locker. One of my pumps is located in the splash well, another in the rigging tunnel by the transom, the third on the cabin floor. Automatic bilges usually have 3 wires (in some instances the pump will have two wires, black and ?, with a float switch installed independent and wired to the pump). With the three wire bilge pump usually one black (negative), one brown and the other brown with a white stripe. Those two brown wires go to a three way switch. Off, on (pump activates with the water level detector), manual over ride (where you flip the switch manually to activate the pump). You do need a fuse before the switch (or circuit breaker switch) for each pump. I put in an additional (my service to the bilge pumps is a dedicated line) 40 amp breaker between my battery and the fuse/switch assembly. Do check the amp rating of the pumps because it will tell you the fusing and wire gauge for length of run. They do draw some juice......I believe around 10 amps plus each but that is a guess unless I check out my boats panel/wiring.

My fish locker and rigging tunnel are magnets for water. I installed a brass through pipe from the fish locker to the splash well (water removed with splash well pump). Do check the installation of your pumps. I use Boat Life Life Seal as a seal/adhesive attaching pumps to the floor and my discharge hoses are installed so as the flex of the hose wants to keep the pumps in place. If the previous owner screwed the pumps to the floor it should be investigated. That is a very thin shell right there and it may need sealing/repair right there to prevent water intrusion. If you bilge pump is in the fish locker........how was it wired and how does it discharge? Not a lot of access to that area on my hull.

Garris

edit: Looks like Jortva and I were typing at the same time. I would like to add that the discharge hose (especially on bilge pumps with a long length of hose above them) need a backflow preventer. Hose water will keep recycling the pump. My lowest pump (without the backflow device) in the cabin seized up before the battery was drained before I found this out.


Edited by gchuba on 05/25/17 - 6:58 AM
 
Alan Gracewski
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Posted on 05/25/17 - 5:39 PM
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Crableg: I own a 1990 Revenge WT with standard transom and twin 120 Johnsons, so mine should be very similar to yours. If you have the 77 gallon gas tank, you have a fish well aft of the tank compartment and forward of the splash well. If you have the optional 129 gallon tank, you won't have the fish well but you will still have the splash well which is adjacent to the transom. You don't describe the configuration you own. Also you don't say whether the boat is a standard transom outboard or something else like Whaler Drive or Sea Drive. I will assume you have the outboard for my comments.

To answer your basic question, I have not seen any diagrams or other visual aids to the drain tube guidance. However, there is a very good description of the self bailing & drain tubes in the Boston Whaler Owners Manual for 18' to 25' Whalers. It is available on Whaler Central under Resources/Downloads/Boston Whaler Owners Manuals. It is the first file (for 18' to 25' Whalers) and file page 05 covers Self Bailing & Drain Tubes. If you don't have this or have not read it, you should. The description is clear and the recommendations are also plain. In it, Whaler recommends that if you have the bilge pump for the starboard compartment, that compartment's drain plug be inserted when the boat is in the water. It permits the bilge pump to empty water that drains into that compartment. For the splash well and fish well, it recommends the transom drain tube and fish well to splash well tube be left open. While floating at rest, water would find its own level in both compartments. Underway on plane, both would drain out and empty themselves.

That is the official guidance. But depending on how you use the boat, you might want to do something else. gchuba and many others have installed bilge pumps in the splash well and other places. That way with the transom drain plugged, the bilge pump takes care of any boarding seas that spill into the splash well. If you open the fish well tube to this splash well, that single bilge pump can take care of both compartments, including rain.

I don't do much fishing, so my fish well is a storage area for fenders and other stuff that can get wet, so I keep the drain plug installed and the tube to the splash well plugged too. If I need to pump out the fish well, I do so with a manual bilge pump. I trailer the boat, so it does not sit in the water at a mooring. Out of the water, the fish well drain plug is opened and most of the water will stay drained out rain or shine. I would like to put a bilge pump into the splash well, but I have not felt the need to do so. I normally operate the boat with the drain plug installed and if I take a wave over the stern, I can either open the plug or pump it out with the manual bilge pump. Obviously when on the trailer, this plug is also open.

So you have some choices. And if you have Whaler Drive or Sea Drive, my advice probably won't apply. As to how to wire your main large bilge pump (like gchuba I am not sure what you mean by this), I recommend you route it to a switch which is fused properly. I like a float switch with the bilge pump and would not recommend the automatic pumps for the mentioned power drain issue. You could install a bilge pump in the splash well and also the fish well depending on how you use the boat. If you use a float with the bilge pump, you must mount the pump lower than the float switch (so the float will shut off the pump before it loses suction) and the float switch must be high enough to prevent any cycling from return water in the overboard line when the pump stops. There is plenty of advice on installing bilge pumps in multiple sources on line and in books.

Hope this helps.
Al

 
gchuba
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Posted on 05/25/17 - 7:48 PM
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Alan,
An interesting read.....thank you. In regards to the splash well drain on my 1979 Revenge........it was way below the water line and the little plastic ball arrangement which supposedly let water out but not in never functioned. All it was for me was a hole in my transom which always let water into my splash well. I permanently plugged it. I also have the low transom self bailing feature which makes keeping my splash well reasonably dry when drifting a lost cause. My bilge pump in that area hardly kept up in sloppy conditions. I do have a removable "baffle" board made attached to my custom railing posts which I hope mitigates the water entry. Waiting to try once my boat gets wet again. My motor is out of the way with a 10" jack plate.

I am interested in what water levels look like in the rigging tunnel and the fish box/locker when in the water and the plugs removed. Underway and anchored. I never removed those plugs when in the water (I am now re-fitting the boat). So Alan......or anyone else who has this hull (Outrage or Revenge).......please let me know what happens. It goes against every fiber in my body to intentionally remove a plug in the bottom of a boat.

Most bilge pumps (at least the Johnson series does) come with a backflow device that attaches directly to the pumps discharge. A piece of rubber that looks like a party favor......that when blown into......gives off that Brooklyn "Pflyyyyt" cheer. I also agree that every bilge pump needs fusing/circuit breaking.

Garris

 
Alan Gracewski
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Posted on 05/26/17 - 9:44 AM
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Garris, I agree with you that it is hard to keep the drain plugs out and permit water to freely flood portions of the boat. I have never intentionally left the plug out on the starboard side to see what the water level would rise to but might do so some day. Of course the water level in the tunnel depends on the weight in the boat and the trim of the boat. My splash well drain is like yours, well below the water level, and I normally keep it plugged with a removable drain plug. As I recall, with our normal load, the water rises about a foot from the bottom of the well with drain plug removed. Even with 10 people aboard (and in salt water), I don't have an issue with water coming over the transom....remembering my fish well is always empty/dry. But if I were to salmon fish outside the Golden Gate, I am sure that drifting with stern to seas would result in waves broaching the transom. Too bad Whaler did not build a variant configuration with transom height for twins of 25" length. Offshore, Whaler Drive is clearly the best option.
Al

 
Alan Gracewski
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Posted on 05/26/17 - 10:00 AM
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Crableg & Garris: This thread got me thinking. Some years ago I posted some pics of my deck plate removal to replace fuel lines and repair fuel tank foam. Here is a link to the pictures which I hope will work for you. Let me know if it does not and I will seek alternatives.
http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/agracewski/story is the link and below should be clickable??

Al http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/agr...wski/story

 
gchuba
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Posted on 05/26/17 - 10:22 AM
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Alan,
Thanks for the photo's. I have my fish locker cover off as well as the small cover for the fuel filler hose. Looks like Whaler updated the chambers for yours. My small closed chambers parallel with the fuel tank are completely closed off from draining. You are giving me new incentive to make a cut in my tank cover deck where the cuddy covers the screws holding it in place. I thought drain tubes might be appropriate and it looks like Whaler thought so to. The early Revenges (1979 on up to some point) had various issues which Whaler dealt with in later releases. My best.

Garris

PS. I hope you still have the banana hulled Revenge kicking around. To me, one of the best looking boats ever (not just Whalers). If the cabin was usable and porta potti friendly I would be posting work on one of those.

 
Alan Gracewski
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Posted on 05/26/17 - 1:38 PM
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Garris, Yes, I still have the Revenge 19. It has been with us since new and I could be buried in it some day....thought about it. Then thought, what a waste of a good boat that could give future owner(s) the same joy it has given us. We have camped in it when our two kids were young. Wife plus one slept under the deck, I with another kid slept on deck in sleeping bags. Porta potty was a bucket....or going ashore. It is a great boat if the seas are not too rough as it does not have the deep vee hull the 22's have. I have never felt unsafe in it. If it does get rough, you just have to slow down....10 knots takes you through most anything with the bow high.

Yes, the 22' hull changed the internal configuration at some point...perhaps when the walk around like you have became the walk through. They are wonderful boats. Makes you wonder why anyone would buy new for 6x the price of a good used one.
Al

 
gchuba
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Posted on 05/26/17 - 9:03 PM
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I am with you on that Alan.......the 22' smirked Revenge (Outrage inclusive) is a great hull. In one of my web wanderings (and I wish I could find it again) they had hull comparisons of Whalers past and present. The smirked hull version (the one's fabricated immediately after the banana hulls) had the highest weather condition rating of all the hulls of similar length to present day. My best to you.

I hope the fellow who asked about bilge pumps does not mind the side track. However......knowing the layouts of existing water patterns within your hull is paramount for location. The bilge on my cabin floor was necessary because when docked in water for an extended time, when it rains, water seeks it level. After a series of storms I had a foot or so of water in thew cuddy. My discharge hose went through the rigging tunnel. When on a trailer....just pull the plug.

Garris

 
Marko888
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Posted on 05/27/17 - 5:01 PM
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Gchuba,

The failed scupper outside your transom could have been replaced by a new FloMax of similar design. This is what I installed on mine, and it works great at keeping water out.

I have bilge pumps in both the aft fish locker and starboard sump.

I always have the plug in on the starboard sump when in water, yet pull it when on trailer.

Never fear plugs out in a Whaler from the 80's. These hulls will not let water rise above floor level at rest due to the outstanding floatation, and everything will drain when underway.

 
gchuba
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Posted on 05/27/17 - 8:19 PM
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Mark,
Thanks for the info on the scupper. A little late now. I sealed off the area and installed a jack plate reinforcement bracket (I have a 10" jack plate) which covered it anyway. I wanted to spread the load on the transom. The cabin water when it rained docked in the slip discolored the wood that went to the floor. Hence the bilge pump. If you trailer your boat unnecessary.

 
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