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1969 16'/17' is a 25" 6hp kicker too long?
Sffiremedic
#1 Print Post
Posted on 05/19/17 - 11:26 AM
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I have a 1969 whaler Tashmoo or Bass Boat hull and the kicker mount placement
on the transom is 23" to the bottom of the hull (due to the slope of the transom and angle of the hull is 22 1/2" and 23 1/2" over an 8" spread).

There is a 4 stroke 6hp about 90 minutes from me with the high thrust sail prop and alternator. It has the ultra long 25" shaft. Is this doable? At least on the later Montauks a 20" is recommended. I did find a chart online that indicated on 18"-22 1/2" transoms a 20" shaft was recommended but 22 1/2" + transoms a 25" shaft was used.

I do not really want to buy or build a mini jack plate and wish to thru bolt this kicker. I believe I could shim it up an inch with HDPE plastic before bolting it on.

Will this kicker work for me? Or should I look for a 20" shaft kicker. This motor is a year old and the $400 saved over new could go for a gps/fishfinder.

The boat is used on Lake Champlain.

Thank you for your advice!

(fixed typo in year)


Edited by Joe Kriz on 05/19/17 - 11:31 AM
 
Joe Kriz
#2 Print Post
Posted on 05/19/17 - 11:33 AM
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Can't be a Tashmoo or Bass Boat model as they weren't made in 1969.
http://www.whalercentral.com/userphot...allery.php

Regardless of the model, all kickers for the 16/17 Classic models were 20 inch long mounted directly on the transom.
See page 11 of the Owners Manual for 9-17 foot Boston Whalers in our downloads section.
http://www.whalercentral.com/download...p?cat_id=5


Joe Kriz -
1977 Montauk 17'
 
Sffiremedic
#3 Print Post
Posted on 05/19/17 - 2:48 PM
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My bad, the registration says 1972, my memory isn't what it used to be.

I stated in my post that The manufacturer recommends the 20" shaft. But at 22 1/2" transom the chart I found stated 22 1/2" was the border for 20" shaft vs a 25" shaft.

As my transom is right at 22 1/2" I was wondering if the 25" shaft is doable, shimmed up an inch.



 
Alan Gracewski
#4 Print Post
Posted on 05/19/17 - 2:57 PM
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SF: At the speed you are going with the kicker, another 5" of engine length will not make any difference. Outboards are specified for length based primarily on having enough lower unit in the water for the propeller to bite, but not so much that additional drag results. If you wanted to go 20 knots, you should stick with the recommended length. However, you will be going 5 knots or less so it is not any big deal. I personally would not even bother to shim it up.

The only down side I can see is the extra length will increase your working draft with the engine down. If you are not going to run in very shallow water, this probably does not matter to you.

Al

 
Joe Kriz
#5 Print Post
Posted on 05/19/17 - 4:59 PM
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I suggest to everyone to follow what Boston Whaler suggests and prints in their documents.
Everyone please read page 10/11 of the Owners Manual for 9-17 models under Auxiliary Engines.

I can think of a couple of other reasons why you probably would not want the 25 inch shaft and there are probably more reasons then I can think of.

1. Will the motor tilt completely out of the water when underway without dragging? Some boat/motor combinations will not. Might create a big rooster tail for show though.

2. The extra 5 inch length gives more hanging out the back when even tilted up which can bounce much more on the transom possibly creating problems like cracking, breaking, the transom etc. when underway or when trailering if in the up position.

3. You are already talking about a 4 stroke which is heavier then a 2 stroke, plus now you are adding another 5 inches of shaft. How much more weight is that?
You don't mention what size and weight the main motor is.

The list could go on.

Good Luck and let us know how it works for you.


Joe Kriz -
1977 Montauk 17'
 
TransFueler
#6 Print Post
Posted on 12/06/17 - 6:52 PM
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The owner's manual you cite, shows that Whaler states the trolling motor position is to be on the starboard side. That they reinforced it for that purpose. Yet, we see many trolling motors (kickers) mounted on the port side. Port side makes more sense in my case, considering I have the superb Super Sport Limited model.

If I add a kicker/aux/trolling motor, it will likely be on the port side. In my case, I'm looking for an 8-9.9 two stoke for lighter weight, as my Johnson/Suzuki 90 is a bit portly.

Concerning the original poster's issue; I know of a few folks who use the "sail" edition of kickers quite successfully. Usually because having the prop that much lower is beneficial in rougher waters, much less likely to catch air in the chop. They also have a "high thrust" prop, and battery charging capability.
The extra weight is minimal, perhaps 2-4 lb for the extra length. That shouldn't be a deal breaker.

Keep in mind, the powerhead is the heavier part in a 4-stroke. The lower units should be fundamentally the same weight.


Smirk is a 1987 Super Sport Limited 17 w/Johnson/Suzuki 90 EFI four-stroke
 
Joe Kriz
#7 Print Post
Posted on 12/06/17 - 7:22 PM
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TransFueler wrote:
The owner's manual you cite, shows that Whaler states the trolling motor position is to be on the starboard side. That they reinforced it for that purpose. Yet, we see many trolling motors (kickers) mounted on the port side. Port side makes more sense in my case, considering I have the superb Super Sport Limited model.

If I add a kicker/aux/trolling motor, it will likely be on the port side. In my case, I'm looking for an 8-9.9 two stoke for lighter weight, as my Johnson/Suzuki 90 is a bit portly.

Concerning the original poster's issue; I know of a few folks who use the "sail" edition of kickers quite successfully. Usually because having the prop that much lower is beneficial in rougher waters, much less likely to catch air in the chop. They also have a "high thrust" prop, and battery charging capability.
The extra weight is minimal, perhaps 2-4 lb for the extra length. That shouldn't be a deal breaker.

Keep in mind, the powerhead is the heavier part in a 4-stroke. The lower units should be fundamentally the same weight.


The Wood Locating Diagram shows wood for a kicker motor on both sides of the transom which isn't even in the original posters question. They weren't asking which side.
http://www.whalercentral.com/download...?cat_id=12

So, according to Boston Whaler, you can put the motor on either side. (depending on wood location and model) Also see page 10 of the Manual I listed above and see "Auxilliary Engines".
(Manuals change through the years along with Wood Location)

You also don't mention how the the "Sail" motor shaft length is or what brand you are referring to.
Many Sail motors are only 20 to 25 inches in length or more.
Always helps to accurately describe what you are referring to so we are all on the same page.


Joe Kriz -
1977 Montauk 17'
 
TransFueler
#8 Print Post
Posted on 12/06/17 - 7:35 PM
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I'm referring to the owner's manual for 9-17 models. Page 11. There it states that wood is integrated to starboard. Little photo also shows an "aux" motor to starboard.

However, I do think this is a good example of "picking nits", like the guys in my vintage Mercedes club who care about phillips screw head orientation... The point is, the BW manual indicates starboard to be the side to mount an aux motor...

Most "sail" motors are 25", with some being 20". I think they are an excellent choice for a BW aux/trolling/kicker motor.




Smirk is a 1987 Super Sport Limited 17 w/Johnson/Suzuki 90 EFI four-stroke
 
Joe Kriz
#9 Print Post
Posted on 12/06/17 - 7:51 PM
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The motor can be mounted on either side as the Wood Locating diagram shows both sides has the same wood mounting area.

20 inch shaft is recommended and directly on the transom. NO Knuckle breaking brackets for 16/17 models or any other models.
(I hate brackets unless no other possible choice)


Joe Kriz -
1977 Montauk 17'
 
Vances Revenge
#10 Print Post
Posted on 12/29/17 - 8:24 PM
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Joe Kriz wrote:
The motor can be mounted on either side as the Wood Locating diagram shows both sides has the same wood mounting area.

20 inch shaft is recommended and directly on the transom. NO Knuckle breaking brackets for 16/17 models or any other models.
(I hate brackets unless no other possible choice)




Totally agree with Joe on the knuckle busting brackets! But, I did purposely purchased a 25" shaft kicker motor for my 22 Revenge which calls for a 20" shaft. The reason I have done this on my last couple boats is so the power head on the kicker is 5 to 7" higher than the transom so waves don't splash up to or over the Kicker in rough water. On the transom of my Revenge I'm mounting a 1/2" thick X 12" Wide X 19" long aluminum plate 7" higher than the transom. The 9.9 Yamaha kicker will be clamped and bolted to that plate on top and through the plate and into the transome at the bottom of the clamping bracket. The reason it is 7" higher than the transom instead of 5 is because the "V" of the hull requires this for the proper motor height at the kickers cavitation plate. Once this plate is etched, primed and painted with Awlgrip to match the transom/boat it will look fine.

I don't know the transom of your boat but you do not need a 12" wide plate. It only has to be the width of the Kickers clamping bracket. You might look and see if something similar will work on your boat.

Vance


Edited by Vances Revenge on 12/29/17 - 8:38 PM
 
gypsmjim
#11 Print Post
Posted on 12/30/17 - 5:04 PM
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Although not the same boat model, this year I mounted a kicker on my Montauk. By all my measurements I needed a long shaft. The motor lined up and performed very well, but when tilted up it dragged in the water at almost every speed. I ended up trading in a brand new motor to get a short shaft version.

As long as the propeller is below the boat in running mode, I would get the shortest shaft you can.

 
Joe Kriz
#12 Print Post
Posted on 12/30/17 - 7:09 PM
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gypsmjim wrote:
Although not the same boat model, this year I mounted a kicker on my Montauk. By all my measurements I needed a long shaft. The motor lined up and performed very well, but when tilted up it dragged in the water at almost every speed. I ended up trading in a brand new motor to get a short shaft version.

As long as the propeller is below the boat in running mode, I would get the shortest shaft you can.


That is not correct.
You had something wrong and you don't even tell us what year or model kicker you were trying to use.
20 inch Long shaft is what Whaler recommends mounted directly on the transom.
I had no difficulties like you mentioned. 1988 Evinrude 8hp
http://users.sisqtel.net/~jkriz/Monta...ntauk.html

Would not even consider a short shaft on any Montauk.


Joe Kriz -
1977 Montauk 17'
 
gypsmjim
#13 Print Post
Posted on 01/02/18 - 5:53 PM
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Joe Kriz wrote:
gypsmjim wrote:
Although not the same boat model, this year I mounted a kicker on my Montauk. By all my measurements I needed a long shaft. The motor lined up and performed very well, but when tilted up it dragged in the water at almost every speed. I ended up trading in a brand new motor to get a short shaft version.

As long as the propeller is below the boat in running mode, I would get the shortest shaft you can.


That is not correct.
You had something wrong and you don't even tell us what year or model kicker you were trying to use.
20 inch Long shaft is what Whaler recommends mounted directly on the transom.
I had no difficulties like you mentioned. 1988 Evinrude 8hp
http://users.sisqtel.net/~jkriz/Monta...ntauk.html

Would not even consider a short shaft on any Montauk.


Its a 2017 150 Montauk. The kicker is a 2017 Mercury 3.5 HP 4-stroke.

I would have preferred a direct transom mount, but it was not possible since there was not enough room. I ended up having to mount a Garelick bracket.

Its a fixed mount bracket, so I need to tilt the motor up when not in use. With my homemade SS fixture the motor is rock steady when tilted. A second fixture connects the kicker and main for mutual steering.

The long shaft worked fine when running, but way too much drag when up. The short shaft provided no speed or performance change, but it was the only practical alternative.

 
Joe Kriz
#14 Print Post
Posted on 01/03/18 - 4:25 PM
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Thanks for the clarification gypsmjim.

The newer models are totally different and not listed in the Manuals of older models like the links I showed above.

Here is a newer Montauk 170 that has a stationary bracket that raises the kicker motor somewhat. How does yours compare?
http://www.whalercentral.com/infusion...r_id=11649


Joe Kriz -
1977 Montauk 17'
 
gypsmjim
#15 Print Post
Posted on 01/03/18 - 4:58 PM
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I'm using the same mount and its in about the same place on the outside of the transom, but the top bolt is mounted below the top of the deck, since the available transom above the deck is only an inch or so.


Edited by gypsmjim on 01/03/18 - 5:00 PM
 
EJO
#16 Print Post
Posted on 01/04/18 - 6:45 AM
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gypsmjim I can't believe you went through the expense of getting a kicker as the std. modern 4 stroke 60 HP on your 150 should be good enough to go slow and fuel efficient.
Mine does (although older) and I can see you do need short shaft with your set-up but it is a waste (imho).


Skipper E-J
m/v "Clumsy Cleat" a 2008 Montauk 150
 
Alan Gracewski
#17 Print Post
Posted on 01/04/18 - 10:18 AM
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While it is true that modern outboards have developed into more reliable power plants, things can still go wrong. If you boat in a less hazardous area (medium size lake, river, harbor), perhaps a loss of propulsion will only cause an inconvenience. However, if you boat in areas with hazards or you go well offshore, the redundancy of a second means of propulsion can be a life/boat saver. For example, if you navigate a narrow channel with reefs on either side with breaking waves, a loss of the main engine can be catastrophic. Having a second engine either running or on immediate standby makes such transits much lower risk. If you are fishing off a rocky shore with the wind pushing toward the shore, a loss of an engine is similarly more potentially dangerous. My point is that stuff happens in a marine environment and even the best of equipment can have a internal casualty (or external damage from the bottom or floating objects). Having some redundancy is a sound strategy.
Al

 
gypsmjim
#18 Print Post
Posted on 01/04/18 - 5:19 PM
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EJO wrote:
gypsmjim I can't believe you went through the expense of getting a kicker as the std. modern 4 stroke 60 HP on your 150 should be good enough to go slow and fuel efficient.
Mine does (although older) and I can see you do need short shaft with your set-up but it is a waste (imho).


Semantics? What is a "waste". Is it a waste of time, a waste of money?

When I drift in my favorite fishing spot I can clearly see the the mist rising from Niagara Falls. The rocky reefs are a mere stone throw away. In olden times I had oars. My Montauk is paddleable, but not oarable......LOL.

I have been stranded in a boat 2 times in my life. I've never hit the bottom or even a submerged log. Once it was a brand new OB, and once a brand new I/O. Both had less than 10 hours on the meter. In both cases I got home a little late, but just fine, because I wasted the money to buy and install a kicker.

An old fishing buddy always said he didn't "go boating to save money". His Momma didn't raise no fool!

 
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