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Ventura 180 planing and performance
Tomlane14	#1  Posted on 09/06/16 - 7:43 PM
Member Posts: 17 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/07/16	Hi All, I just bought my first boat a 2002 Ventura 180 with a 130hp Honda. The boat handles nicely and takes the chop just fine but it struggles to get on plane with any real weight in it. With two adults it gets up fairly quickly but with 4 adults I have to get a lot of weight on the bow to get it moving. I put on a new prop (13-1/4 x 17) which helped a lot as the original one was banged up. Once it's going I can hit about 32 mph WOT. I was thinking that trim tabs would be very helpful but I am really new to this so any advice would be helpful. It seems like the Dauntless is very similar to the Ventura other than the console and seating layout so I wonder if they should perform the same or close to it but I don't know what is typical. I am mostly in the Sassafras river off the Chesapeake which is generally very calm. One other thing I haven't figured out - the The engine shifts fine but neutral isn't always neutral. It will start in gear if it's close to the center. That makes it a little harder learning to dock. I'm guessing a linkage adjustment? Thanks in advance for any advice
Phil T	#2  Posted on 09/07/16 - 10:38 AM
Administrator Personal Page Personal Album Project Albums Posts: 6986 Comments: 6 Joined: 03/26/05	Tom - Welcome to WC and to your new boat. Shifting - I think you will learn that it will become natural to select neutral with some practice. The clicking, or detents in the shift are not large (like a car) and many go past it when new to the boat. On both of my boats the shift behavior had a different feel. Even with the same make and model of throttle/binnacle. Performance - Your boat has mid range power (for that year and model) and a heavy outboard so you can help by balancing the weight evenly. Having all the weight toward the stern will slow time to plane. Before adding tabs lets find out more on your boat and motor setup: Is the new prop stainless or aluminum? Make and Model? What is the top RPM # when at wide open throttle (WOT) when you are alone in the boat? Look at the engine height article and tell us where the engine is mounted on the transom. http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...cle_id=106
Tomlane14	#3  Posted on 09/07/16 - 2:04 PM
Member Posts: 17 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/07/16	Phil, Thanks for the reply. I have a new stainless prop Honda OEM 13-1/4 x 17. I also have an aluminum prop that I haven't tried but I need a hub kit for it. The tach is a little flaky (tap on it and it seems to read correctly) but WOT is about 6,000 RPM with 2 adults. I haven't had a chance to try it alone but I will. The motor is all the way up - bolts in the bottom holes. One thing I forgot to list- The hour meter has a blinking hourglass symbol which I guess is a service timer but i can't find anything about it in the Honda manual
Tomlane14	#4  Posted on 09/07/16 - 2:05 PM
Member Posts: 17 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/07/16	Oh and the prop is 3 blade SS
jgortva	#5  Posted on 09/08/16 - 6:08 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 227 Comments: 1 Joined: 11/12/09	Hello Tom, This might sound like I am all over the place but I see 3 issues that you could be having and none of them are encouraging. You might want to have that engine checked out by a pro. I know that certain years of Honda 130's were problem engines and had recalls and numerous issues which might be affecting your performance. Also I believe the WOT should be around 5800 and if you are hitting 6000 without trimming the motor up you might need a prop change, but I don't think the small variance in RPM is going to drastically improve planning. Lastly, Whalers back in 2002 and maybe even now are hull plus engine boats meaning the buyer often could choose his selection of power regardless of performance. This is not a common engine boat setup for whaler, so if the original owner was brand loyal to Honda and put that 600 lb motor on your boat, he could not exactly return it to Whaler for performance issues. This might be evidenced by the motor being mounted all the way up as rarely do factory Whaler installs on later model hulls mount the engine in such a way. This is only done if the original hull was designed for 2 stroke engine weights and your boat was right on the cusp of the death of the large 2 stroke engines save for ETEC's. The previous owner changed the mounting probably trying to improve performance or maybe this was a re power.
Tomlane14	#6  Posted on 09/08/16 - 10:36 AM
Member Posts: 17 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/07/16	Thanks for your insights. I have seen other Ventura's around the same year with Honda 130's so I think it could be the original motor. It only had 150 hours on the clock which is suspiciously low for a 14 year old boat but I don't really trust the clocks anyway. The motor though starts easily and runs very smooth, no vibration and doesn't seem like it's not running on all cylinders. Once it planes I trim it up and the RPM's go up. I try t keep it trimmed up high until it cavitates or the boat porpoises. Generally the boat is heavy and it is very sensitive to added weight, either people, fuel or both. As a newbie I guess I am surprised at how much difference a few hundred pounds makes. The manual say 150hp is max for the boat but I would think it could handle a lot more.
Phil T	#7  Posted on 09/08/16 - 11:04 AM
Administrator Personal Page Personal Album Project Albums Posts: 6986 Comments: 6 Joined: 03/26/05	The Honda is a great but heavy motor. This contributes to the high planing speed. When you accelerate, are you increasing the throttle slowly? if so, I suggest you modify your technique and accelerate much faster till you plane then reduce speed (i.e. gun it hard). A not elegant but practical solution is a foil on the lower unit. It is a inexpensive, non damaging and will help lower your time to plane.
Tomlane14	#8  Posted on 09/08/16 - 12:48 PM
Member Posts: 17 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/07/16	Phil, I always go full throttle and then raise the trim and back off the throttle some as I get a good plane at the desired speed. I'm not familiar with a foil. Can you point me to some info on that? I thought tabs would help but that is a much more involved and expensive. I'm not all that interested is going top speed often but it would be nice to be able to plane at less than 30 mph
Phil T	#9  Posted on 09/08/16 - 1:51 PM
Administrator Personal Page Personal Album Project Albums Posts: 6986 Comments: 6 Joined: 03/26/05	There are several slang names for a foil, eg. Wail Tail, Fin. There are many versions of the same thing. This is one example. http://www.wholesalemarine.com/davis-...-tail.html While trim tabs are effective, they are alot more money, require drilling into the hull under the water line and wiring for electrics or hydraulics. The other decent option to consider is a 4 bladed lifting prop. They work well but are more expensive than the foil.
jgortva	#10  Posted on 09/09/16 - 5:46 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 227 Comments: 1 Joined: 11/12/09	Tom, I have had a few versions of the hydrofoil Phil speaks about and while they may decrease planning time somewhat they do magnify other poor riding characteristics like porpoising. If you feel the motor is running right and we agree with Phil that the higher planning speed is due to the heavier motor, than I would suggest taking a look at installing a set of smart tabs. They are automatic trim tabs and I have installed a set on both my classic 13 sport and now my 15 foot dauntless with excellent results. They do require drilling holes, but so does a hydrofoil and if you don't like them, the holes in fiberglass our generally easier to fill than holes in the lower end of your outboard. if you take your time and follow the instructions installing them even on a Whaler with no wood will give you no issues. I can plane at speeds within 12-15 MPH and bow rise is considerably reduced. I have been involved with a few discussions on these tabs and they can be found if you perform a site search using smart tabs as the key words. Jim G.
Tomlane14	#11  Posted on 09/09/16 - 7:48 AM
Member Posts: 17 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/07/16	Jim and Phil - Thanks for that info. I am learning a lot but there sure is a lot to learn. I'll keep you posted on the progress
Tomlane14	#12  Posted on 09/12/16 - 11:45 AM
Member Posts: 17 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/07/16	I decided to get a set of Smart tabs. I'll let you know how they work out. I read a lot of other opinions on them in this and other forums. Some people hate them but most thought they worked well. I notice Bennet also make a copy of them but at a much higher price as they are stainless.
jgortva	#13  Posted on 09/13/16 - 6:16 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 227 Comments: 1 Joined: 11/12/09	Tom, Smart tabs are also made in stainless and I would recommend them over the plastic ones if you keep the boat in the water for extended periods. I have had both and the plastic smart tabs stain a little once the algae has grown on them and then been pressure washed off. The stainless ones I have on my dauntless look as good as new after 3 seasons in the water. Jim G.
JSMaxwell	#14  Posted on 09/13/16 - 11:36 AM
Member Posts: 6 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/11/15	Tom, I have the 21' version of your boat and recently repowered it with a 4-stroke Yamaha. (I went Yammy in part because its a lighter 4-stroke.) Anyway, I had similar issues with not staying on plane under 3500rpm. I have trim tabs, but I didn't get results I was looking for. Going from a 3 blade to a 4 blade with lift characteristics got me up on plane in the 2900-3000 RPM range. Same pitch. It seems to handle better generally at modest speeds.
Tomlane14	#15  Posted on 09/13/16 - 7:22 PM
Member Posts: 17 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/07/16	Thanks for the input. I'll get them mounted this weekend and weather permitting get some test results. One thing I overlooked though is they are likely to interfere with the transom tie downs to the trailer. I suppose that's a common problem with tabs? I guess a long ratchet strap over the stern and under the trailer would work? anybody have any thoughts about that?
jgortva	#16  Posted on 09/14/16 - 6:07 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 227 Comments: 1 Joined: 11/12/09	Tom, On my hull, the tie downs kind of wrap around the inside of the trim tabs and can still reach the tie down eyelets on the trailer. Remember, the rear tie downs on a boat trailer are designed to keep the boat from bouncing up and down on the trailer rather than actually holding the boat from sliding on the trailer. That is the front winches job and there should also be an extra safety chain or cable holding the front eyelet on the boat as this along with the weight of the boat is 90% of what holds the boat from moving around. Jim G.
Tomlane14	#17  Posted on 09/19/16 - 9:32 AM
Member Posts: 17 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/07/16	Smart Tab update. I mounted the Smart Tabs and put the boat back in the water with a full tank of gas. All I can say is what a difference! The boat got right up on plane and had significantly less porpoising. Previously with a full tank it was very difficult to get on a plane. I think that was the best $129 I could have spent. The tabs are in the way of the transom tie downs when on the trailer but I managed to tie down to the stern cleats instead and avoid the tabs. Thanks to everyone for the great advice
masbama	#18  Posted on 09/19/16 - 6:10 PM
Member Posts: 91 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/13/10	What size, brand, material did you buy?
jgortva	#19  Posted on 09/20/16 - 3:06 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 227 Comments: 1 Joined: 11/12/09	Glad they helped. I installed both sets of smart tabs on the 13 foot Sport and the 15 Foot Dauntless during the winter and water tested in the spring so I did not have a fresh memory of before versus after, but there was still a profound performance improvement. Jim G.
Tomlane14	#20  Posted on 09/26/16 - 10:10 AM
Member Posts: 17 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/07/16	I installed the Nauticus SX9510-60 which were the recommended size for an 18' boat with 130 hp. I tested them a lot more this past weekend and I have to say I am even more impressed. With a lot of fuel and 5 adults the Ventura got right up on plane every time. There are 5 setting you can use to tweak the performance which I haven't tried yet. I et it in the middle to start as recommended. The only thing I notice is that I might have lost 2 mph from the top speed.