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27 whaler full cabin
demco99
#1 Print Post
Posted on 11/13/14 - 10:56 PM
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Hi guys

Im intersted in the boat below and want to get your thoughts.. currently own a 1999 18' outrage which I love but want to move up to something I can overnight in with my gf. Boat will be mainly used for salmon trolling in the pacific northwest. I love the beamy hull and huge back deck for fishing plus the cabin still looks pretty comfortable. Thoughts on this boat?


http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1989-Boston-Whaler-FC-636149

I was also looking at a 25 walk around closer to home with 2006 etecs w/ 300hrs each but it is 20k more expensive.. better power obviously but that difference seems huge and "I'm not sure how much I would actually use the walk around feature so may as well have more cabin space (i.e. the 27 whaler Full cabin)..

Thanks for any help!

 
tedious
#2 Print Post
Posted on 11/14/14 - 4:48 AM
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I have not seen one in person, but that boat certainly looks in great shape.

To state the obvious, the Optimaxes will not be as quiet as a more modern motor, although they should get good mileage. I mention the noise factor because you referred to boating with your girlfriend - my wife enjoys mostly just poking along quietly, so quiet matters, don't know if that's the case for you.

The full cabin is great - a bit harder to get to the foredeck if you need to handle lines but more weather protection.

Tim


Edited by tedious on 11/14/14 - 4:51 AM
 
gchuba
#3 Print Post
Posted on 11/14/14 - 7:26 AM
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It comes down to your comfort level. I have a 22' 1979 Revenge with the "full" cabin. More of a nap area with porta potty for the ladies. Overnighting more of a cold camp. I have been in the 25 ft. cabins and would be adequate for me. Easier tow than the 27ft. Seen pictures of the walkaround feature and the cabin is still large, less side headroom. Would be my choice. Pulpit access though a hatch otherwise. With my 22 footer I like the single engine (fuel consumption) and maneuverability. Deck space about the same in each depending on Whaler Drive and seating arrangements.

Garris

 
tedious
#4 Print Post
Posted on 11/14/14 - 7:34 AM
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Garris mentions towing, which is one other difference between the 27 and 25. As I recall, with the 10 foot beam, the 27s really can't be towed without a special permit, not if you want to do it legally anyway. And the 27 is much bigger, needs a major tow rig.

Tim

 
Silentpardner
#5 Print Post
Posted on 11/14/14 - 11:47 AM
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I own one of those, a 1989 Whaler 27 FC, and use it a lot in Gulf Of Mexico. They are great for offshore overnighting. The one you are looking at there does not have a marine A/C unit, or a generator listed in the ad.

That boat sure looks to be in good condition, but the motors are not discussed much in the ad. When I bought mine last year, the first thing I did was to replace the 1989 engines with new 2013 new ones. This cost 43,000 bucks, after selling the 1989 Yamaha 200 motors that were on it at the time. I got 3000 bucks a piece for the old motors with 1500 hours on them, but they were in immaculate condition. You could not expect more than half of that for the 2005 Optimax engines on the one you are looking at, in my opinion.
2005 engines are now 10 years old, and these do not specify how many hours are on them.
I also spent 11000 bucks on all new Garmin electronics. Unless you are going to use this boat for extreme fishing, as I use mine, you probably won't need a new set, but you will need an auto-pilot on this boat. I don't see one listed in the ad.

You will also want an automatic anchor windlass on this boat, as access to the anchor locker and bow pulpit anchor tie-off cleat is only accessible from the cabin hatch unless you are very nimble, and can walk along a 6" walkway access while hanging on to the Bimini support struts and bow railing along the side of the exterior of the cabin in the sea conditions you are in at the time of anchoring. My "Good" brand fully automatic windlass cost me 2000 bucks after installation.

The Whaler 27 FC with WD has a 10'4" beam. It weighs over well over 10000 lbs. It is actually 34' long from bow bit tip to back of engines on the Whaler Drive. This is a BIG boat. This is not a boat you trailer to a ramp and launch. You keep these in marinas, preferably dry-stacked for preservation.
It costs me 5500 bucks a year to keep mine at Surfside Marina in Freeport TX. It costs an additional 1380 bucks a year for a storage locker at the Marina with electricity to power my chest freezer. It costs an additional 300 bucks a year to keep a trailer for this boat there at the marina for use in case of hurricane emergency.

You have to service those engines on that boat. Every 100 hrs of use, it costs 877 bucks to have this done at my marina on both my 2013 Yamaha 300 four strokes. I can do it myself for a little less than 500 bucks.

There will always be miscellaneous repairs needed on a boat of this size and age. I have already had to replace the cockpit upholstered and padded coamings with new. The original mounting strips for the coaming pads were all made of wood, I replaced this with modern mounting, and all this cost me 2200 bucks. That was one repair.


I don't know what kind of truck you own, but you will definitely need a 1-ton or better truck to tow this boat. I use an F-350 4 X 4 for the one I own. I have an account with the state of Texas DOT to get oversize load permits quickly in case of emergency, such as hurricanes, in order to get this boat off the coast in a hurry. That F-350 cost me over 50000 bucks. You need to be prepared for costs incurred permitting, including insurance, if you intend to tow these boats. I picked mine up in Wisconsin, and by the time I got back to TX with it, it had cost me 2500 bucks to get it there.

The Whaler 27 FC cabin is definitely not at all like a cuddy on a 22 'revenge. You can stand up and walk around inside the 27's cabin, and you have a galley and a full head with a shower, and the bunk uses queen size sheets. This is a BIG cabin. There is a HUGE cockpit available for fishing, and there is a HUGE area for piloting and passenger seating. You have a huge full transom stern with 2 baitwells. The stern bilge is incredibly deep, over 6', and it is very difficult to perform necessary maintenance inside it.

If you are prepared to spend a LOT of money to own a classic, this is a boat you will love. If you are not fully prepared for the cost of ownership, this could all be a real shock. I have seen many of these boats deteriorate to junk because owners buy them and then can't afford them. It pains me to see this, but I can't afford them all :) It is my opinion that these old classics will completely disappear soon, with the exception of the few of us that still maintain them, because of this high cost of ownership. A new boat in this size class is much cheaper.

I should warn you, there will be many people that will tell you my costs are inflated somehow, and you can own and maintain one of these boats for less than it costs me. You can't. There will probably even be responders to this thread that will disagree with my actual cost numbers, but they won't actually be an owner of one like I am. I am telling you the straight truth here.

The Whaler 27 FC is by far the best boat I have ever owned for the kind of fishing I do. I have put hundreds of fish on the deck of mine. I get 200-300 hours of enjoyment on the water up to 150 miles offshore with mine. Even the cost of ownership of this fine boat are worth it to me, as the only boat that could replace it would be a sportfisher express, or a new Whaler with even more costs of ownership.

If you just want to cruise around with your girlfriend a few days of the year, you should really look at other options. There are many less costly boats available.

I hope this has helped in your decision making process, I really don't want to scare you off this deal if you can really afford it...just beware of the true costs. If you have any other questions about this boat, I am willing to help, just email me. Here is a link to photos of my boats.https://www.flickr.com/photos/9978785...@N06/sets/


Edited by Silentpardner on 11/14/14 - 11:59 AM
 
Binkie
#6 Print Post
Posted on 11/14/14 - 2:15 PM
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Wow, not only the $$$ but the hassle factor. Why not just buy a waterfront home in Cape coral fl. and keep a 31' Bertram in the backyard. Thats the best of ALL worlds, and probably not anymore expensive.


Rich
 
Silentpardner
#7 Print Post
Posted on 11/14/14 - 2:21 PM
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Exactly, Rich. That's why I warn people. :)

 
Silentpardner
#8 Print Post
Posted on 11/14/14 - 2:32 PM
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Oh, I left out what it costs to fill my fuel tanks every time I go out fishing. Marina fuel is usually over 4 bucks a gallon, and I have paid fuel/ice/bait bills in excess of 3000 bucks in a single week of day trips.

Just sayin' :)


Edited by Silentpardner on 11/14/14 - 2:37 PM
 
Weatherly
#9 Print Post
Posted on 11/16/14 - 7:40 AM
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The Boston Whaler 27 is the biggest gas hog of the classic Rockland MA Boston Whalers. I much prefer the Boston Whaler 31, with twin Cummins 6BTA inboard diesel engines.

 
Silentpardner
#10 Print Post
Posted on 11/16/14 - 9:48 AM
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I have never actually seen a 31 with twin engines, only single.
I boarded a Boston Whaler branded boat out at San Diego that was docked at H&M called the "Reel Easy" once, and that was the only twin Cummins diesel powered Whaler I have ever been on. It was an awesome boat, I would estimate 12' beam and I think it was 41' long, at least. It had a full Tuna tower and dual controls, a second set over the cabin, and was clearly a sportfisher convertible, not your standard large Whaler at all. I have never seen another one like it. I know it was for sale, at a really good price, in my opinion, for a long time.

 
Silentpardner
#11 Print Post
Posted on 11/16/14 - 10:20 AM
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Also, I would not consider the Whaler 27 I have a real "gashog". I run a LONG way on a trip normally, and I get about 1.3 mpg at 35 mph in most conditions. This is just about the same as the comparable center consoles get at my marina, the Contenders and Fountains, with the same power. The only remarkable fuel economy difference I have heard about locally exists with the catamaran hull designs, but they are more expensive to maintain.

I regularly make day trips and overnighters that amount to between 120 miles minimum up to 300 miles on a round trip. It is 75 knots to the deep water off my coast here , what we call the shelf. I use electric powered reels to deep drop out there. The Whaler 27, with the twin F-300 setup that I have, is one of the most economical boats that I know of that are adequate for this sport. It takes a lot longer for the sportfishers to get out to the same depth, and they are not nearly as economical. I have run one of these as well.

The Whaler 27 can make way at 25-35 mph in a 1-3 ft chop in 10-15 knot winds with ease, and I usually see 1.5 - 1.7 mpg in these conditions. The same speed in the same conditions in the sportfishers will use 3 times that amount of fuel at a minimum, and most sportfishers actually use 5 times that.
This is not a cheap sport, no matter what boat you use, but the Whaler 27 is as cheap as it gets, if you want a dry ride and you want to fish, and not just spend all day riding to the fishing grounds. :)


 
demco99
#12 Print Post
Posted on 11/18/14 - 5:30 PM
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Hi guys - thanks for all the replies..

Silentpardner your very thorough response is much appreciated! Firs[b]of all, WOW, your1 boat is absolutely gorgeous!!! I checked out your flickr site and am in awe. I have a few questions for you. You mention you dry stack the boat for a portion of the year for "preservation" - I plan on keeping mine in a marina and using year round.. Is this an issue for this hull? If I take it out for a spin once a week in the winter months but it stays in the water year-round (apart from annual lift out for bottom painting etc.) should I be worried. This also negated the size of truck issue as I don't plan on trailering.

Next que`stion is regarding the engines. I have read overall positive1 reviews on this year/brand of engine in the 225hp size. The owner installed them in 2005 and they now have around 900hrs. As long as they check out mechanically (compression test etc) from a certified marine mechanic, then why would I worry? It would be nice to put on new 4-stroke power as you have done but these engines are good size for this hull and should have1 alot of life left in them.. no?

I noticed your custom kicker bracket, looks great, who made that for you? Do you now` have a kicker installed on there? Could you send more pics/specs/info on this as I plan to install a kicker if I buy this boat. I will be using this boat for salmon fishing which is done at a slow troll, 2.5-4mph. What size of kicker would be best for this hull in your opinion for this application? 9.9hp high thrust? 15hp high thrust? With a helm steering wheel and throttle mounted somewhere convenient on the transom - this would be a relatively inexpensive upgrade that would make this boat an awesome salmon fishing boat. Not sure if I would plumb it to main fuel tanks or keep small seperate orange plastic fuel tank on transom. The beauty is with most of the day spent trolling you aren't putting hours on the main engines which delays the eventual repower...

New cockpit coaming / new electronics / anchor windlass would all be very nice additions, but these could wait of course. I wouldn't need to completely upgrade the boat immediately following purchase. I feel like this boat as it is currently provides alot of value and life at its current price, am I missing something here? Silentpardner would it be possible for me to give you a call this week to discuss - I will most likely be driving 3 hours sout3h to view the boat this Sunday..

Thanks again guys..


 
Silentpardner
#13 Print Post
Posted on 11/19/14 - 12:13 AM
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Thanks for the compliments on the boat.

I don't have any experience keeping a Whaler hull in the water year round, as I keep the Outrage 18 on a trailer when it is not in use. I keep the Whaler 27 FC in dry storage when it is not in use, at all times of the year. This allows me to inspect the boat every time I have the boat launched and retrieved, from the outside of the boat. I can correct any problems with water intrusion into the hull before they become apparent from the inside-the-boat view in this manner.
Gelcoat and fiberglass do not prevent water intrusion into the foam inside it, even though it is commonly perceived that way. There are other threads here on site and at least one article, I believe, that discuss the migration of water through gelcoat/fiberglass shells on Boston Whaler boats. Bottom paint prevents this, or at least slows it down, depending on its quality.
I do have bottom paint on the Whaler 27, but I intend to remove it in the future, if the removal of the bottom paint on my Outrage 18 works as advocated by local boatbuilders I employ, as well as advocates for this procedure among the classic Boston Whaler enthusiasts on this site and around the web. The jury is still out in my mind on this issue, but due to my trailering of this boat, I am willing to try this.
I would say it is mandatory to pull and clean, as well as re-coat any hull used in saltwater docking at a minimum frequency of once a year. I would recommend pulling a hull kept in this way at least 2 times a year, as I have actual experience with larger sportfishers that stay in the water all the time, and I have seen some pretty expensive repairs on fiberglass hulls required that could have been much less expensive if the problem had been caught earlier. Some problems I have noted in the past were the direct result of bonding issues between the hull and the bottom paint.
There is always the risk of stray electrical currents in marina waters that you cannot control. No matter how well designed and maintained that your own boat's electrical system is, you can't control the same on someone else's boat. Stray electrical currents can seriously reduce the life of your boats anode system, and can also cause premature corrosion of your engines, leading to more costly repairs/replacement. This is another, and arguably the "best", reason why I choose to dry-stack my Whaler 27 FC. I didn't have this option with the sportfishers.
This is what I meant by the use of the word "preservation" in my response.

There is a lot square footage of the hull of the boat actually submerged in the water at the dock. Actually, although I have not actually calculated this, it appears that at least half of the hull would be underwater at all times at a dock. You wont ever see this huge area of hull until you pull the boat.
I use the boat most in the months between march and October, but I try to make a trip or two per month in the remaining months of the year when the weather permits. Currently, over the last 2 weeks or so, the seas in the Gulf have been between 3' and 15', and at short intervals in high winds and rain, so trips are at a minimum...even the Whaler 27 FC is uncomfortable to operate and fish from in these conditions. :)

I think the best thing you can do for any boat and engine is to use them as regularly as possible, they all seem to last longer. Any maintenance issues that arise from use, or disuse, are quickly noticed as they develop and can be corrected before they become more serious and expensive to address. If your engines have 900 hrs on them, it could indicate a regular use of 100 hr/yr, or it could indicate 300 hrs/yr for only three years. You would need to know positively the actual use, as well as maintenance, of the engines to really be able to confidently project their lifespan, but from experience, 2500 hrs on well maintained and regularly used 2-strokes is not uncommon. Some folks have gotten a lot more out of these engines.
It is a bit of crapshoot to predict reality when you are buying a used set of engines. I personally would not figure value of the engines you are looking at any higher than $5000 into the overall price of the boat, and I would shoot for less, as the actual resale value could be much less.

The custom kicker mount you see on that Whaler 27 FC was built by the previous owner. It is truly custom. I have plans for it's removal from the boat completely, as I don't expect to ever have a kicker on the boat for my use in the future. When I remove it, I will look you up if you wind up purchasing the boat you are looking at. You are welcome to it :) It supported a 4-stroke Yamaha 50 with a large propeller, (not a standard), on my Whaler 27 when I purchased it, and with that combination, could actually push that boat faster than was ever needed for salmon and lake trout trolling. I never actually measured the prop that was being used, but it worked well for low speed thrust. I would recommend this HP engine because I know it worked well, but I don't have any other experience with HP's of kicker engines applied to this size and weight of boat for reference.
The kicker motor was completely remote controlled on my boat when I purchased it. I don't see how it could have been operated by a tiller-handle control motor. The Whaler Drive it is mounted to is behind the backside of the full transom. I could only imagine the difficulty of trying to operate a kicker with a tiller handle on this boat, but I would consider this impossible.
The kicker motor was fueled from a separate auxiliary 25 gallon aluminum fuel tank installed in the same cavity of the boat as the original 170 gallon tank, on top of the original tank. There was, and is, enough room to do this in these boats. This auxiliary tank is still in place in the boat, and I now have it plumbed into my fuel supply lines for reserve capacity.
There are alternatives to using a plastic on-deck accessory tank to supply a kicker that we could, and should in my opinion, discuss before settling on this option. Plumbing the kicker to the existing fuel tank would certainly be my own preference over having a small portable tank in the cockpit.

It occurs to me that you may have not yet fully grasped the actual size of the boat you are going to look at Sunday :) I think you may be astounded. I think you really need to see one of these boats, out of the water and up close, before you get to thinking about kicker motor size and fuel supply. Once you actually see this vessel and walk around it, I think you will understand. IT is a BIG boat :)

Make sure you look at the wiring and plumbing on the boat you are looking at very closely. Take pictures of the electrical system and steering hydraulic lines and helm through the access door in the head. Take pictures of the wiring and fuel and hydraulic lines inside the transom at the batteries, ( the center fishwell in the transom should pull out from the top of the transom). Take pictures of the battery charger and wiring, it should be located behind the access opening on the port side of the interior in the helm area of the boat. Take pictures under every access hatch you can remove, and get some pics of the holding tanks and the hot water heater and plumbing. Run water at the taps to check for leaks and make sure the drains work, as well as making sure the freshwater supply pump works. Make sure that the freshwater is coming from the holding tank, and not from the raw water washdown pump and system, these are 2 separate systems. Make sure the head actually works and flushes properly. Take pictures of everything on the boat that could be hard for you to see otherwise, and even take pictures of the stuff you think you see well.
Study all these pictures, and show them to others that you trust as knowledgeable about conditional issues of boats in your area offline, not just here on the internet. Compare these photos to the ones that I have posted at my Flickr site. Keep in mind the cost of ownership I have already discussed above, then make your decision. Remember, I have not had to do any work at all on the electrical or plumbing systems of the boat I purchased including the appliances, that was already pristine at the time of my purchase, and it all works to this day as it did originally.

After you have actually looked this boat over, I would be glad to talk with you about it on the phone if you are still interested in it. :)



 
jvz
#14 Print Post
Posted on 11/19/14 - 5:46 AM
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The 27 is a great boat..for a Whaler it's a lot of boat. A friend had one at Balboa Yacht Club and we would take it all over So Cal waters, great for overnighters.

If your going to drive three hours and you seem to be serious,... why not schedule a marine survey? Ask the seller to haul it out & schedule a survey.

A survey can aid in your favor when it's time to negotiate. Hopefully you get a clean bill of health!

Jerry - Your boats look fantastic!

 
Silentpardner
#15 Print Post
Posted on 11/19/14 - 7:40 AM
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Thanks jvz, I have had a LOT of fun with it this year!

 
demco99
#16 Print Post
Posted on 11/24/14 - 6:27 PM
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Hi Silentpardner -

Drove down to look at the boat yesterday and even more interested now. Can I call you to discuss as mentioned?

 
demco99
#17 Print Post
Posted on 11/28/14 - 11:52 AM
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Hi Silentpardner - Please let me know if your available to discuss, I tried to send you an email as well...

 
Silentpardner
#18 Print Post
Posted on 11/28/14 - 2:41 PM
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I responded to your email today demco99, I am sorry it took so long, I am very busy on the road. I have not seen any new pictures of this boat from your recent survey, please post them for us all to see at your convenience.

I am certain that others on this forum would have valuable input regarding assessment this boat's current condition related to it's value, and even if they don't, their opinions as to condition of this boat would be just as useful as my own.

I think it is invaluable to keep the discussion in the public forum of the Whaler community by posting your questions in the thread you have started here.

 
demco99
#19 Print Post
Posted on 12/17/14 - 12:06 PM
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Hi guys, please see the pictures I took below. I have a survey scheduled for Friday as well as a mechanical inspection on the outboards..

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8618/1...685a41.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8612/1...daf3af.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7575/1...d68cc1.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7469/1...fe7fde.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7491/1...39447f.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7516/1...b362db.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7567/1...846d28.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7468/1...7b9798.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7574/1...0fd0ed.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7487/1...29458f.jpg



(fixed links as [img] does not work in the forum sections)


Edited by Joe Kriz on 12/17/14 - 12:18 PM
 
jvz
#20 Print Post
Posted on 12/19/14 - 7:08 AM
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Nice!

Let us know how the survey turns out - take more pics if you haul it out.

I think I would relocate those oil tanks...?

 
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