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Speed - Nauset 16 with Yamaha F70
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| WRufus |
Posted on 05/03/13 - 8:01 AM
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Thank you very helpful. so if i were to pick an aluminum prop you suggest a 15 pitch so this would be the only choice. Is this what you would suggest? do you think I would still able to get 37/38mph on a 1989 montauk?
- 13 1/2" 15(pitch) 3 (blade) Aluminum pressed in 6E5-45947-00-00
- would you go 2 or 3 holes up?
- any other suggestion for control cable lengths?
I am really have to move forward with mounting the F70 and rigging it up.
Thanks again for all your help and suggestions - Whaler Central is tremendous.
Edited by WRufus on 05/03/13 - 8:02 AM
1989 Montauk 17' w/ F70 Yamaha |
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| tedious |
Posted on 05/03/13 - 8:09 AM
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May I ask why you are set on an aluminum prop? Seems a shame to saddle that nice new motor with yesterday's technology.
Tim
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| DennisVollrath |
Posted on 05/03/13 - 8:25 AM
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The Teleflex Extreme cables I have are universal, not Yamaha specific. On the Black Bear Sporting Goods site I see 16', 18', 19', & 20'. There are likely other sizes too. You just need to dig a bit.
Dennis
1985 Outrage 18 with Suzuki DF140A |
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| WRufus |
Posted on 05/06/13 - 1:29 PM
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so if I were to go with an aluminum prop would this be the prop (below)? Tom this is the only choice for a 15" pitch. does anyone have experience?
13 1/2" 15(pitch) 3 (blade) Aluminum pressed in 6E5-45947-00-00
looks like I could also potentiall use these (see below).
13 5/8 14 (pitch) 3 (blade) Aluminum pressed in 6E5-45958-00-00
13 5/8 13 (pitch) 3 (blade) Aluminum pressed in 6E5-45949-00-00
Edited by WRufus on 05/06/13 - 1:30 PM
1989 Montauk 17' w/ F70 Yamaha |
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| tedious |
Posted on 05/07/13 - 5:03 AM
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As a point of reference, you can get a new Stiletto Advantage 1, with the required DE-500 hubkit, shipped to your door for $261.95. A 13.25 x 13 would be perfect for your application, and will perform much better and last much longer than any aluminum prop. You may be able to find a used one cheaper - I sold one last year to a guy who's using it on a Montauk.
It looks like the Yamaha aluminum props can be had online for about $150, which is indeed cheaper. I'm still not understanding why after spending many thousands on a new motor and rigging, someone wouldn't spend just a little more to get it to perform optimally. But of course it is your choice.
Tim
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 05/07/13 - 6:42 AM
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Those are the only choices form Yamaha but all other manufacturers make aluminum props too that would fit your F70.
Propeller manufacturers generally only make one model of aluminum propeller in a class simply because there are still those who want to use an aluminum prop for whatever reason. They also make good emergency spares.
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| WRufus |
Posted on 05/07/13 - 10:40 AM
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Tom/Tim, Thanks for all your input. I do have to decide the prop and from what you guys are saying (and my research) it seems the best prop choices are the following. Now i have to figure out how to pick one.
Yamaha 13.25 X 14 P (stainless)
13.25 x 15" Stiletto Advantage (stainless)
13.25 x 13" Stiletto Advantage I (stainless)
Yamaha 13.5 X 15" aluminum prop?
I was just thinking aluminum because there is a lot of shallow areas in my local waters and I was told in the event you ground or impact floating debris an aluminum prop would cause less damage to the motor itself because aluminum is a softer metal. Anyways, im sure there are a lot of opinions out there on this subject.
and it seems 18' control cables?
Thanks again everyone for all your help and suggestions. it is all very appreciated.
1989 Montauk 17' w/ F70 Yamaha |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 05/07/13 - 10:51 AM
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I was told in the event you ground or impact floating debris an aluminum prop would cause less damage to the motor itself because aluminum is a softer metal.
Yes, that is a common myth. Might have had some relevance thirty years ago, but not today.
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| DennisVollrath |
Posted on 05/07/13 - 10:58 AM
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Scott,
I do not think you'd be too happy with the Stiletto 13.25" x 15". I tried that first (carry-over from when the motor was mounted on my 15' Sport CC), and it was very sluggish, even with just me. I was not able to get to WOT, only about 5400RPM.
The Stiletto 13.25" x 13" is much more responsive, and gets on plane with 4 & 23gals of gas. I haven't had the opportunity to load it more heavily. However, with just 1 or 2 people, it will rev-limit the motor. I can still get to about 36mph.
The Yamaha 14" pitch propeller you referenced might be ideal for the lightly loaded boat, if that's what you'd like to optimize for.
Dennis
1985 Outrage 18 with Suzuki DF140A |
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| QuarterSea |
Posted on 05/07/13 - 6:33 PM
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I just put an F70 on my 1963 custom (originally a Currituck).
I have a center console, leaning post, batteries (2) in the console, and a 22 gallon gas tank under the leaning post.
Just like you, I went with an aluminum prop. I used a 13 1/2 x 15 Yamaha #6E5-45947-00-00.
The dealer set everything up and I could not be happier.
I can not answer top speed for you, I am not out of the break-in period (10 hours) so I haven't been at WOT.
I can tell you that with three adults and the dog on board, there is power to spare. The boat floats on its lines and looks like a Whaler should.
You will love your F70.
Best of luck,
Gary
Gary, aka QuarterSea |
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| WRufus |
Posted on 05/08/13 - 8:49 AM
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http://www.arimaowners.com/index.php?topic=778.0
here is an interesting link i found with F70 prop data for a 16' boat. Its not whaler data, but interesting nonetheless.
looks like they tested the Solas 4 blade prop which is one I was looking at.
Solas Amita 4, 4-Blade Aluminum Prop, Fits Yamaha/Tohatsu/Nissan 60-140 HP, 13.25 x 13-P RH
1989 Montauk 17' w/ F70 Yamaha |
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| QuarterSea |
Posted on 05/08/13 - 1:49 PM
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Also check Yamaha under 'Performance Bulletins' for F70.
Use skiff for 'Boat Type', it lists a 17' Key West. Very similar in style and weight to our boats.
It will give you a great deal of info including a top speed of 36.6 mpg @ 6300 RPM.
Anyway, check it out.
Gary, aka QuarterSea |
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| WRufus |
Posted on 01/29/16 - 6:26 PM
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Tom W Clark wrote:
Mount the motor Three Holes Up if using a Stiletto, Turbo or Yamaha Performance Series 3-Blade propeller. The ideal size 13-1/4" x 14" and you should see a top speed of 38 MPH.
Old thread - but I wanted to circle back regarding the prop conversation to learn more about Pitch & Size and Aluminum vs Stainless, to help me better understand the pros and cons.
Here are props I have my eyes on (all 3 blade):
- Stainless Yamaha Performance Series 13-1/4" x 14"
- Stainless Stiletto Advantage 13.25 x 15"
- Stainless Stiletto Advantage 13.25" x 13"
- Currently, running Yamaha 3 blade aluminum 13 5/8 x 14"
I am overall happy with my current aluminum prop I am running. A bigger prop than the SS examples above and at WOT I can achieve the 6300 rev limit.
I'm curious what perf and speed advantages I may have with a stainless prop and if it is worth it.
The F70 is on a 1989 Montauk. 22 Gallon tank that is usually half filled. Batt in the console. No water skiing, towing, etc. Light load most of the time. 1 or 2 people with minimal gear, mostly a couple of fly rods.
As a side note, I still have the 16 Nauset (hence the thread titile), but it is still a project... and needless to say the F70 never made it on that hull and ended up on the Montauk.
I would appreciate your thoughts
Tom/Tim/Gary - thank you and others for all the prop advice through the years in this thread and other threads.
Thinking on boating in January
All the Best,
Rufus
Edited by WRufus on 01/29/16 - 7:19 PM
1989 Montauk 17' w/ F70 Yamaha |
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| mtown |
Posted on 01/30/16 - 5:08 AM
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Both Tom and Tim have more prop expertise by far than I do. I will say this though. There is no reason at all to use an aluminum propeller.
In the good old days Yamaha sold all the motors above 30hp with stainless props. When I replaced my 1985 70hp 2-stroke with the same motor in 2007 it came with aluminum. I took the 22 year old stainless off the old motor which I sold. I gave the buyer the new aluminum.
By the way I run in shallow water constantly and run in sand or mud almost every trip at some point.
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| tedious |
Posted on 01/30/16 - 5:36 AM
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With respect to aluminum vs. stainless steel and the idea that the former will protect you from impacts, it is indeed an old wives tale. It was effectively, and to my mind finally, debunked a few years ago on this very forum, where a member reported two separate boats hitting a submerged post in his harbor. One had a stainless prop, and the other aluminum, and both boats destroyed their lower units - the aluminum provided no protection.
So aluminum won't save your motor, but it will cost you some fuel economy and performance - fairly subtle, but real. And aluminum will take damage from floating debris or shell flats, while stainless will shrug it off with a few scratches.
Regarding the prop choices you list, my choice, based on my experience with the F70 on my 15, is "none of the above." My short list for an F70 on a Montauk would instead be the Yamaha Painted Stainless (YPS) mentioned by Aquanutt on the first page of this thread, the copy made by Power Tech which is the SCD3 model, or possibly the Turbo Quest.
I used a Stiletto Advantage for several years, but was never really satisfied with acceleration and top end. After thinking about it for quite a while, I theorized that with the F70's power curve, I wanted a prop with less blade area to let it spin up easily through the middle RPMs to get to where it makes its power at the upper part of the RPM range. I contacted Power Tech and after some discussion, they recommended the SCD3. Subsequent research brought me to look at the Turbo Quest, which has the same characteristics as the SCD3 and YPS - smaller blade area, low rake. The Quest is specifically advertised by the manufacturer as being a good choice for the F70, so that made me think I was on the right track. The Quest is, however, more expensive than the others. I went with the SCD3 as it was a little cheaper and they let you trade in if the pitch isn't right. I am very happy with that choice.
Don't get me wrong - the Stiletto and other large blade area props are great, just not right for the F70, based on my experience. The difference when I switched to the SCD3 was like night and day, and it made the boat much more fun. Acceleration is instantaneous, and top speed improved as well. Most impressively, I can get very close to top speed without trimming out at all - something I need fairly frequently in the areas that I boat in.
Regarding pitch in the SCD3 or YPS, I would characterize Aquanutt's 17-pitch as just a bit too high, and I run a 16-pitch which is a whisker low for my 15 but might prove optimal for your Montauk.
Tim
Edited by tedious on 01/30/16 - 12:01 PM |
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| alan heckmamleper |
Posted on 01/31/16 - 5:16 AM
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I have a 1999 Alert 17 with a Yamaha F70LA on it with a Yamaha Performance Series Stainless Steel 13.25 x 14 prop mounted all the way up. From my experience what Tom Clark says is spot on.The boat handles great and with me alone,flat lake,trimmed up with about 12 gallons of gas I can get very close to 38 mph and with a slight chop 36.7 mph all day . Thanks again to Tom for helping me to set this motor up,my dealer said I would be back to have my motor lowered and was suprised when I told him it performed perfect.
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| tedious |
Posted on 01/31/16 - 9:02 AM
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Alan, to add to the data, what RPM are you turning at those speeds?
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| alan heckmamleper |
Posted on 01/31/16 - 11:10 AM
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tedious wrote:
Alan, to add to the data, what RPM are you turning at those speeds? . According to my Yamaha digital tach 6300 rpm.
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| Whalerbob |
Posted on 01/31/16 - 1:30 PM
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I have the Stiletto 13.25" x 15 on my Montauk and with my average load I'm only getting 4600 rpm on my Yamaha 90hp 2 stroke. I'm mounted 2 holes up and moving to 3 but I need more pitch.
That said, if anyone with a lower pitch prop that wants to try a trade let me know and we can work something out.
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| WRufus |
Posted on 02/06/16 - 8:48 AM
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Thank you all for the helpful advice & feedback. I must say a lot of info to digest.
Since the F70 is a higher RPM motor, smaller diameter prop? To maximize speed, higher pitch?
Again Currently, running Yamaha 3 blade aluminum 13 5/8 x 14"
Sounds like I have potential to really increase my performance & speed vs. what I am currently running. That said, I want to do my homework to get this right.
I'm still not sure what stainless size & pitch to aim for, for my hull & outboard, and for my applications (from my previous posts).
Here is everything I have heard:
Brands:
Yamaha Performance Series
Yamaha Painted Stainless (YPS)
Power Tech SCD3
Turbo Quest
Stiletto Advantage
Diameter & Pitch:
- 13-1/4" x 14"
- 13.25 x 15"
- 13.25" x 13"
- 13.5" x 16"
- 13" X 17"
By the way
Interesting article re: prop pitch
http://www.boatingmag.com/how-to/understanding-propeller-pitch
Edited by WRufus on 02/07/16 - 4:39 AM
1989 Montauk 17' w/ F70 Yamaha |
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