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Stainless steel prop Suzuki + 1997 Montauk 17
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| Petrus |
Posted on 05/28/13 - 5:36 AM
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I have finally found a used propeller (original Suzuki) for a resonable price. About $300 inkl. shipping (New ones costs at least $1000 in Sweden)
It has been used on a Suzuki DF140 2004 and I have a DF90A 2012
It is size 14x18, last pictures on my personal page.
I've looked on the Suzuki webbsite and it says it is the same part numper for these two engines 99105-00700-18P
http://www.suzukimarine.com/~/media/M...s_PDF.ashx
When I called a Suzuki dealer in Gothenburg he didn't think it would fit according to the info he got. He couldn't tell the differance though.
Should I trust the web catalouge and go for it.
Any thoughts/experiance of the size, 14x18 for a Montauk 17/Suzuki DF90A
Many thanks
Edited by Petrus on 05/28/13 - 5:36 AM
1997 Montauk 17, Suzuki DF90A |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 05/28/13 - 7:16 AM
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Yes, it will fit.
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 05/28/13 - 7:53 AM
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If you have not done so already, you will want to raise your DF90A on the transom at least two bolt holes.
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| Petrus |
Posted on 06/11/13 - 1:26 PM
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I bought the propeller, got it last week. Looks really good. I only mounted the engine one hole up as it looked like it was more then 1" above the keel and wasn't sure if I was going to buy a steel prop this year. I might try it like this first to see the position of the cavitation plate when running. Maybe I can figure out if I could raise it 3 holes directly, what do you think?
Thanks for your help Tom.
Edited by Petrus on 06/11/13 - 1:35 PM
1997 Montauk 17, Suzuki DF90A |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 06/12/13 - 4:15 PM
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I doubt very much the A/V plate is already one inch above the keel if the motor is only mounted one hole up.
Run the new propeller and see how it does. I suspect here is more to be gained by raising the motor.
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| Petrus |
Posted on 07/22/13 - 12:39 AM
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Tom, the A/V plate is 30 mm above the keel, when trimmed parallel,
so you don't have to doubt anymore ; ) (I believe 1 inch is 25mm)
Edited by Petrus on 07/22/13 - 12:45 AM
1997 Montauk 17, Suzuki DF90A |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 07/22/13 - 8:57 AM
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I want to see a photo.
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| Petrus |
Posted on 07/26/13 - 12:20 AM
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Tom, the boat is in the water now but I will take a picture next time I pick it up.
I have a picture without any ruler showing the exact dimension, which I can mail you.
1997 Montauk 17, Suzuki DF90A |
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| Petrus |
Posted on 07/29/13 - 2:10 PM
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I've now tried WOT with the alu 21 pitch prop. I had 5700-5800rpm and 41mph according to an app I downloaded to my IPhone (I have no clue of the accuricy of this app)
I didn't run it at WOT too long as the motor has only 4-5 hour since new. Maybe I could have trimmed the rig out a little bit more.
Anyway I obviously need a lower pitch. The question is if 19 is enough to reach 6200rpm (boat was loaded with 2 people (340pounds), 2 batteries, 3 gallons of fuel, one anchor.
I will also try the 17 Suzuki steel prop I have, but will not be able to try it in a week. And motor also should be raised for that.
1997 Montauk 17, Suzuki DF90A |
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| Petrus |
Posted on 07/31/13 - 7:39 AM
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Tom W Clark wrote:
I want to see a photo.
Tom, Pictures are added in my personal page
1997 Montauk 17, Suzuki DF90A |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 07/31/13 - 7:43 AM
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Yeah, that looks good. Try the 14" x 18" prop, it ought to be just about perfect.
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| Petrus |
Posted on 07/31/13 - 8:15 AM
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I, will try it next wednesday or thursday (maybe this sunday) when I'm back at my summerhouse.
I had a good grip with the alu prop even when trimmed out the motor about 80%. So I guess I will end up raising it another hole.
5800rpm when me and my 4 years old (screaming) son was in it and less fuel this time. Still 41mph.
Edited by Petrus on 07/31/13 - 8:15 AM
1997 Montauk 17, Suzuki DF90A |
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| Petrus |
Posted on 08/13/13 - 1:00 AM
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I tried the stainless steel propeller last Thursday but got a strange noise when I put in the gear. The noise disappeared at 1100-1200 RPM.
The same noise in reverse.
I put the aluminum prop back and no noise.
The noise sounds like a rattling or ticking valves or a diesel engine and is hard to locate. I talked to my friend who runs off shore racing and he listened to the noise. He had never heard anything like it before and he is used to try a lot of different propellers.
Seems like when load is applied to the propeller the noise disappeared. When moored and the gear forward the noise stops after 1-2 seconds. I assume the resistance when moored applies enough load without increasing RPM.
When I took the boat up I tried to find out any difference between the stainless steel and aluminum prop. I noticed that there is probably a difference between the stainless steel prop and the aluminum. The distance between the hub contact surface and the propeller contact surface is slightly shorter on the stainless steel prop.
The contact surface on the hub hits the spacer before the corresponding contact surface on the propeller hits the spacer. This creates a gap between prop and spacer while the hub is in contact to the spacer (and stop flange on the propeller shaft).
To me it sounds like an explanation to the rattling. Do you think it can be solved by assemble a washer between the spacer and propeller? Could the hub have been worn as it felt much more rigid (much less flex than the aluminum prop) when tightening the stainless steel prop than the aluminum prop?
Or can I run it as it is maybe? Well, not preferred because the rattling sound but maybe no danger for just testing the propeller.
Edited by Tom W Clark on 09/11/13 - 6:52 AM
1997 Montauk 17, Suzuki DF90A |
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| Petrus |
Posted on 09/11/13 - 1:21 AM
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I've added a picture (last in my personal page) of the dimension I talked about. I measured it to 1mm (1inch = 25.4mm) difference between the aluminum and stainless steel prop.
I had 0.6mm stainless steel sheet metal piece that I made a washer/spacer out of and tried it last weekend. It made the rattling occur less but not completely (I will try a 1mm spacer next time).
It was very windy and I had all family (2 adults and two children 4 and 8 years old) in the boat but I could find out that I reached at least 6100rpm so the pitch seems correct.
Also the handling was really good and the acceleration was amazing.
I also have the aluminum prop with 19" pitch now (instead of 21"), but didn't have time to try it yet.
Edited by Tom W Clark on 09/11/13 - 6:53 AM
1997 Montauk 17, Suzuki DF90A |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 09/11/13 - 6:58 AM
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Prop rattle is a common and frequent phenomena when running stainless steel propeller on four stroke outboard motors. Are you sure this is not simply what you are experiencing?
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| Petrus |
Posted on 09/11/13 - 11:27 AM
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Tom, I've never heard about prop rattle so I can't tell. I'll try to add a video to photo bucket. But I'm 100% sure it is a gap of 1mm with the SS prop.
Edited by Petrus on 09/11/13 - 11:33 AM
1997 Montauk 17, Suzuki DF90A |
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| Petrus |
Posted on 09/11/13 - 12:03 PM
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See if this works
http://s921.photobucket.com/user/Petr...5.mp4.html
1997 Montauk 17, Suzuki DF90A |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 09/11/13 - 1:27 PM
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Just google PROP RATTLE
It's also called "Prop Chatter"
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| Petrus |
Posted on 09/12/13 - 3:06 AM
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Ok, did some search and it seems like I have the same noise/rattle. But I don't really understand what causes the rattle?
Anyway it can't be good for the gear case, or doesn't it make any harm?
Anyway the noice is annoying. May the rattle come from the gear case or is it between the hub and inner spacer?
I am also thinking about putting a thin rubber spacer (instead of the SS spacer I made) between the hub and the inner spacer.
Any thoughts?
1997 Montauk 17, Suzuki DF90A |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 09/12/13 - 6:49 AM
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The phenomena of prop rattle is caused by the heavier weight of the typical stainless steel propeller having much greater inertia than an aluminum propeller.
Combining that with a four stroke outboard, where a given cylinder produces power only on every fourth stroke, as compared to a two stroke that produces power on every other stroke, we get the propeller carrying the load from one power stroke via the propeller shaft to the point where the clutch dog is free of the forward gear.
When the next power stroke comes along, the drive shaft catches up and the forward gear is instantly loaded again. This all happens very fast, but it produced that weird chattering sounds.
Yes, it is very annoying, especially if you troll.
About a decade ago, when four strokes were first gaining a big foothold in the marketplace, Mercury invented a special hub kit do help alleviate this annoying sound. It is a spring loaded hub kit they call Flo-Torq III. It uses titanium rods to connect two halves of what would normally be the one piece plastic hub insert of a Flo-Torq II hub kit. The radial spring action absorbs these power lags/pulses and keeps the gears in the gearcase engaged though each power stroke.
Various other manufacturers have come out with their own prop rattle reducing hub kits, Yamaha has their SDS, PowerTech! has their Cushion-Lok and Mercury now offers a Flo-Torq IV and Reflex hub kits for larger and smaller outboards respectively.
Normally, you do not want a propeller to have any slop on the propeller shaft. You want the propeller nut to be very tight to hold the propeller perfectly solid relative to the propeller shaft. But, ironically, the prop rattle reducing Flo-Torq III & IV have a certain amount of slop designed into them. Then *need* to free float a little on the propeller shaft. The instructions specify fore and aft play of up to 1/8" (3 mm)
However, you do not have a Flo-Torq III or IV hub kit and I think it perfectly reasonable to eliminate any play in your propeller installation as a first test to see if that eliminates the prop rattle.
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